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Strawman. SSJ is a multiplier on his base. While SSG power is an added boost. Two different things.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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Also in the anime, Base Frieza is able to beat Base Dyspo while Goku needed Super Saiyan God to fight him. Compare that to the RoF arc where Base Goku was fighting Final Form Frieza.
Again proving>RoF base=SSG, but in ToP SSG Goku=RoF base Goku. It's a retcon. Cope
Again proving>RoF base=SSG, but in ToP SSG Goku=RoF base Goku. It's a retcon. Cope
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If you're trolling just say so
Serlock_Holmes
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Should we sit here and pretend toriyama didn't just think of something dumb to never concern himself with them? It would make sense though for them to lose their tails when they get SSJ form.
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maybe it's when they are unlocking their potential through other manners, since Oozaru is considered a part of the Saiyans potential. Goku got it from the Choushinsui, Gohan got it from Namek's Saichoro, and Vegeta probably got it from zenkais
Nullflowerblush
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Now, compare that to when Final Form Frieza was beating Kaio-ken x20 Goku.
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I assume it was always meant to be intended the actual forms they have access to. There’s no need for a crappy were-ape form (a situational 10x amp) when you got the Golden Glow (an easily accessible 50x amp).
Fezzih_007
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He din't beat Base Dyspo, no.
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yeah frieza had to go golden, and what does this prove
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He did. it clear base Goku power got switched to SSG. Dyspo needed a transformation like Frieza.
Fezzih_007
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You just remenbering wrong, Freeza use Golden in that fight.
No really, Freeza just got stronger after RoF.
Nullflowerblush
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In their normal forms, Dyspo began overwhelming Frieza with his speed and strength, and Frieza only managed to keep up because Goku warned prior that Dyspo moved linearly and predictably. Only after Frieza turned Golden did Dyspo reveal his Super High-Speed Mode.
And, Goku only used Super Saiyan God to protect Hit and trounce Dyspo.
Quit being halfwitted.
Nullflowerblush
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To think that Frieza before a year of training in Hell and Frieza after a year of training in Hell are even remotely similar in power is a special kind of ignorance and stupidity, rivalled only by unique characters on the internet that believe Grade 4 Super Saiyan is stronger then Grade 1, and that "Kaio-ken" and "Kaio-ken x2" are separate multipliers.
Fezzih_007
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She actually did one, and got closed.
I did say It was against the rules.
vsbattles.com
I did say It was against the rules.
DBS "Base=SSG" Downgrade
Base Goku=SSG got undoubtedly retconned at the U6 arc and finalized in ToP arc It's like this: BoG: Base Goku>SSG RoF SSB=SSJx50>base>SSG U6 Retcons with regular SSJ1-3 thus SSB>SSG>SSJ1-3 ToP: Finalizes the retcon by finally utilazing SSG form and power. Thus SSB>SSG (shown)>SSJ1-3>base As...
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Is this real? This doesn't feel real.
Fezzih_007
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What you mean?
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That Veronica character I think is actually just 3 racoons in a trench coat with an internet connection. And I mean that in the best way possible
Fezzih_007
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Well, I also been having these weird thoughts lately too. Not sure if they for real or not.
Her arguments don't make any sense to me.
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LMAOOOOOOOShe actually did one, and got closed.
I did say It was against the rules.
DBS "Base=SSG" Downgrade
Base Goku=SSG got undoubtedly retconned at the U6 arc and finalized in ToP arc It's like this: BoG: Base Goku>SSG RoF SSB=SSJx50>base>SSG U6 Retcons with regular SSJ1-3 thus SSB>SSG>SSJ1-3 ToP: Finalizes the retcon by finally utilazing SSG form and power. Thus SSB>SSG (shown)>SSJ1-3>base As...
ProudLearner
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I agree with Veronica FRA.
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You know, a thought occurs to me. According to Vegeta, he saw SSJ3 in the Afterlife. Which makes sense when you consider the Toei Afterlife, but not the modified system we see paraded around in DBS. Especially when you consider Piccolo directly references the Toei Hell and even says Vegeta is gonna go there.
It’s just an interesting tidbit I thought I’d bring up.
It’s just an interesting tidbit I thought I’d bring up.
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Yes, he even watched the Fusion Dance from the Afterlife (just because he couldn't do it perfectly on a whim years later in Broly doesn't mean he hasn't seen it)
Nullflowerblush
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King Yemma held onto his spirit before its cleansing and restored his body, knowing that he'd be needed against Majin Buu. And, the opening of Ep.19 of Super reveals multiple different "terrains"/"areas" of Earth's Hell, including the area Frieza had been trapped in, underneath a body of water, implying different functions for different spirits, like how Yemma opted to relocate Dabura to Heaven out of spite. For Frieza, his punishment is eternal torture; for Vegeta, his punishment is being reincarnated; for Dr. Mashirito, his punishment is apparently losing his body but not being cleansed and reincarnated.
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Calm down lol
Nullflowerblush
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You're right, that was a li'l overboard.
Hey, continuing this train of thought, in-universe, Frieza refers to Earth's Hell as, aptly, "Earth's hell", which strongly suggests the existence of individual planetary Hells; in the manga, Sorbet and Shisami ended up there, too.
If that is the precedent, than the Ginyu Force appearing in Hell with Frieza and Cell in the TV anime contradicts the lore established by Super, seeing as how the Ginyu Force happened to all be killed on Planet Namek, rather than on Earth.
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@Nullflowerblush Avoid making comments such as these in the future. They are not appropriate remarks to make towards other users on this forum.
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I believe that it is not the size of the earth and that there are no other hells on earth, this is just a place that Ema created in hell itself to harm Frieza's mind and make him redeem himself from all sin, the place is below the hell itself, this is demonstrated.
Nullflowerblush
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That, and, again, Sorbet and Shisami were transported to Earth's Hell, too, in the manga.
And, like, say, Super Yemma did create Earth's Hell specifically for Frieza. Why did TV anime Yemma relocate Frieza to Hell with the Ogres and the villains of the past instead of exactly that? Clearly, Yemma judges his spirits in carefully tailored ways; he beat Raditz, a Saiyan, down before relocation, and he relocated Dabura to Heaven, being the King of the Demon Realm.
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But what you've shown is just hell being shown and various parts of it being seen.
Like here, where the big mountains that inhabit all hell in Dragon Ball are shown
Those places are just parts of hell, they're not separate from hell itself lol, but Toei changes the ways some people go to hell and other places, but both are the same specific place of hell, or can we assume that that location already existed to imprison Frieza (which although it is very doubtful), I believe that Ema himself created this unique place for Frieza.
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Has anyone played the new Dragon Ball Kakaroto DLC?
Nullflowerblush
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I completely forgot, but evil has a physical presence in-universe, considering the Devilmite Beam kills its targets by expanding their evil until their bodies explode.
Serlock_Holmes
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Evil is a pink chewing gum.
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How does that indicate a physical presence for evil? Why can’t it just be something abstract as concepts like evil, Justice, etc, normally are?
Serlock_Holmes
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The Devilmite Beam transforms an opponent's own negative thoughts into destructive beams that can annihilate anything in their path. However, it only works if there are negative thoughts in the target's mind to begin with. Due to this, outside of the video games, it is an all-or-nothing attack.
That's from the wiki and yeah it just looks like it transforms bad brain signals? https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Devilmite_Beam
Also Roshi's explanation:
"It is a force of unimaginable evil, that has destroyed more lives than any war or pestilence combined. Long ago there was a mighty-but-compassionate warrior. His power was beyond measure, yet many foolish upstarts tried to destroy him, in hopes of making a name for themselves. They were all unsuccessful, until one day, the Devilman appeared. Knowing he could not compete against the warrior's strength, the Devilman attacked using his mind. He discovered he could exploit his opponent's negative thoughts, no matter how faint, and convert them into an energy beam of immense power, the Devilmite Beam. It amplified any dark thought, anger, malice, aggression and caused it to expand until his opponent's heart, literally exploded! It was the death of a great hero, and the birth of an even greater evil."
— Master Roshi's explanation of the Devilmite Beam
Seems to just use emotions as power.
Also Toriyama said that the attack wouldn't hit if aimed at future villains. Does that mean if it hit them it's gonna do a crap ton of damage especially if destroying their heart is fatal? Could Devilman oneshot Black?
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Not Black, no. Black is pure of Heart and genuinely believes he is serving Justice.
It’d totally kill like, Moro though.
Serlock_Holmes
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I don't think it works like that. Considering the only ones it wouldn't work is Goku and fricking fish and infants anyone having a brain sufficed. Anyone is getting destroyed by this and even current Goku included as during that period of time Goku could totally pass for braindead.
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Goku survived because he was Pure of Heart. Black, being Pure of Heart, would be equally as immune. This is reflected in their (admittedly non-canon) game material, as the Devilmite Beam doesn’t work on Black in them, like in Dragon Ball Fusions.
Serlock_Holmes
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Really? Currently the only one I could see the beam not working on being Zeno. I don't think even Goku fits the criteria anymore. Also instead of Piccolo shouldn't Goku have brought Devilman against Raditz and hold him down enough for devilman to beam his ass?
Serlock_Holmes
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Veronica is back at it. Just letting everyone know.
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Yeah, let them be.
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