Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Vizer04]

At 900,000, Ginyu Saga Kaio-ken x10 Goku surpasses First Form Frieza. At 90,000, though, Ginyu Saga Goku is weaker than Saiyan Saga Great Ape Vegeta.

Goku < First Form Frieza by 10x, and Great Ape Vegeta > Vegeta, which means Vegeta is within that 10x. But Great Ape is a 10x multiplier, which means that Vegeta only downscales from Frieza by <100x.

Ehh i don't think that's how it works. We don't have an oficial power level for Great Ape Vegeta.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Actually nah, Ronnatons are quite above Yottatons, I guess could always argue that Earth is a small planet in the DB Universe

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Ehh i don't think that's how it works. We don't have an oficial power level for Great Ape Vegeta.

The Great Ape transformation does make Kid Goku go from 10 to 100,
Also can't really argue that Kaioken x10 would put Goku at 900,000 and say that Great Ape wouldn't for Vegeta

 

[ChronoULT]

Speaking of downgrades, Captain Ginyu Saga Goku is currently Dwarf Star level, downscaling by 10x from Second Form Frieza, because he "Implied he'd be able to assist against Second Form Frieza". But, like, Goku knows that Saiyans increase their strength after recovering from life-threatening injuries.

Nah, It can stay, Goku thought he reached his limit, he was not expecting a big power boost

 

[RedReaper616]

Yeah, SS Saga Vegeta would be 10x stronger, but Goku matches it with a basic Kaioken—Something we saw when Ginyu measured his PL. So effectively:

Base Namek Goku (90K) < Ginyu (120K) < KK Goku/Saiyan Saga Oozaru Vegeta (180K) < First Form Frieza (530K) < KK x 10 Goku (900K).

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

It would put Vegeta at 5-A even with the downgraded calc, that's the point I think

 

[ChronoULT]

Vegeta's power level decreased when he made the Power Ball so his Pl is less than 180k, but Goku said not even a 5x Kaioken could beat him so this is something relevant

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

It's real funny because in Toei, Kaioken x10 Goku kinda just ends up being stronger than First Form Frieza without any scaling to Frieza

 

[ChronoULT]

Vegeta's power level decreased when he made the Power Ball so his Pl is less than 180k, but Goku said not even a 5x Kaioken could beat him so this is something relevant

Looks like viz messed up the translation of the panel, anyway here is the scan

 

[Vizer04]

It would put Vegeta at 5-A even with the downgraded calc, that's the point I think

Yeah, i made the calculations and it's true, Vegeta is High 5-A even with the new downgrade calc.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yeah, i made the calculations and it's true, Vegeta is High 5-A even with the new downgrade calc.

Oooohhh... that's...

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Low-End is 5-A and High-End is High 5-A
Basically Frieza's calc is always on the higher end of a Tier, so x100 downscaling would also be in the same Tier

 

[Vizer04]

I made a mistake, if we accept that Saiyan Saga Vegeta is 100 times weaker than First Form Frieza then we have:

• 48.9 Ronnatons (High 5-A) with the old calculation.

• 74.42 Yottatons (5-A) with the new calculation.

 

[Veronica]

If First Form Frieza gets downgraded to Large Planet level. Was he at full power or casuel?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I'm not answering that.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Din't you already did one?

 

[Veronica]

Din't you already did one?

The new one will be better with links and clear retcons.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

android saga goku is randomly star level+ in ssj

 

[Fezzih_007]

The new one will be better with links and clear retcons.

I mean, not wanting to be rude, but your arguments don't seem very good, a lot of assumptions.
most of the thing you said are not even Retcons.

 

[TiltedFN]

The new one will be better with links and clear retcons.

omg just stop

 

[Fezzih_007]

And there's a rule against doing a CRT about that, right?

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

Pretty sure there is a discussion rule about trying to downgrade godly base forms.

 

[Fezzih_007]

In RoF Goku trains to control the SSG power in base, than stack SSJ to get SSB. Until it got retconned in U6 arc with regular SSJ1-3

I not seeing the retcon, that makes sense to me.

 

[XXBenShapiroXx]

But it's wrong though.

K, that doesn't change the fact there's a discussion rule

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

discussion rules for CRTs can be bypassed if there's new evidence last I recall

 

[Tyranno223]

The whole point of RoF is Goku surpassing SSG by going SSJ on top of it which is SSB. So in RoF SSB is the regular SSJ, but U6 Arc brings SSJ1-3 back. Thus base Goku isn't SSG anymore, unless you think SSG x400, times SSG, times x50 with SSB. Which is fan-fiction never shown in RoF since SSB is only x50 SSG which is base and later on SSG appears in ToP. Showing tjey went completly went with it.

Good Grief

 

[ChronoULT]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ChronoULT/sandbox

since i'm adding more than 13 new abilities, discussing them now would be helpful. Is there anything i should remove or add more arguments?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

why're his stats in tabbers

 

[Dust_Collector]

why're his stats in tabbers

Apparently that's a thing some profiles do now to make it easier to read or something, One Piece profiles are the most notable example I can think of that uses tabbers for stats

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Can statements of power being "multiplied" or increased "many times" be used in scaling?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Pretty sure they can, although I can't remember what number we use for statements like that. Think if the statement is multiplied that we use 2 times as a lowball, and many times I think we use 3?

 

[RedReaper616]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User:ChronoULT/sandbox

since i'm adding more than 13 new abilities, discussing them now would be helpful. Is there anything i should remove or add more arguments?

I think you should add that Moro’s Illusions specifically fool energy sensory to give context on the feat a little bit. Also, would this provide Resistance to things that manipulate Extrasensory Perception/Senses, given Goku’s works despite the illusions?

 

[ChronoULT]

I think you should add that Moro’s Illusions specifically fool energy sensory to give context on the feat a little bit. Also, would this provide Resistance to things that manipulate Extrasensory Perception/Senses, given Goku’s works despite the illusions?

yeah, that's perfect, it will give resistance to perception manipulation too

 

[MeiouHades]

The wiki in a nutshell

 

[Huesito88]

The wiki in a nutshell

Actually it's Infinite Cosmos is an Infinite increase in all stats and a few abilities which results in a few abilities and stats being increased by infinite.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Need to rewatch the episode, but, apparently, Botamo transfers any and all damage into an alternate dimension???

 

[ChronoULT]

Need to rewatch the episode, but, apparently, Botamo transfers any and all damage into an alternate dimension???

he does

 

[MeiouHades]

Need to rewatch the episode, but, apparently, Botamo transfers any and all damage into an alternate dimension???

Is it like an alternate dimension, similar to one Hit creates to hide in and attack from?

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Need to rewatch the episode, but, apparently, Botamo transfers any and all damage into an alternate dimension???

That seems like damage transferal which, afaik, isn't limited by the NLF attack reflection is

 

[Veronica]

Also base Goku took a barrage of attacks from Jiren in base and Goku said "In all my years and in all my fights, I have never taken an attack like that!, there is no doubt you are incredible". That means a weakened base Goku took a barrage of attacks above anything in BoG, RoF and even Black Arc.