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Never said it was.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
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I will remove your spleen.
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I mean, if they could get that strong without it, what stoped goku from doing the same? Actually, 17 did that with basic training, and he doesn't even have ki
This is more because of them then anything else, dende has god ki, he isn't strong at all
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17 has infinite stamina and was massively stronger than someone look Frieza without any training. Nearly two decades of training plus DBS power creep is more than enough to explain away his growth. Goku trained for 7 years in otherworld and didn't get nearly as strong.
Also I already addressed your second point, application of your ki is also important. Look, let's put it this way, if you gave gohan God ki, he'd probably get way stronger than he is now. God ki is a huge boost, but it isnt a 'lol you win' button, that wouldn't be interesting
Broly is Broly, his character has always been strong for no reason. And we have no idea how old Jiren is, or what type of training he went through, and I've already explained the narrative reason he had for being so strong.
It's a damned if you do damned if you don't, if goku and vegeta were that randomly strong when that's never been in line with their character, people would complain.
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So?
Dbs power creep is just plot, plus, by logic, shouldn't have become just as much stronger?
Do we have any statement that say "god ki>>normal ki in general"?
Which counters the fact that he got that strong without god ki how?
The point was that he didn't need god ki to match and surpass god ki users
Training tho
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None of these are proper responses to my points. This is just handwaving, you are arguing to argue. 'So?' isn't an arguement.
You seem to keep missing the point. The fact Broly and Jiren can do these things doesn't mean God ki is useless, it means they themselves are extraordinary for being able to match God ki users.
Broly, even the Z version, was just big strong, and Super follows that albeit with a bit more character to him. Jiren was hyped up as **** for the fact he could surpass GoDs. They are extraordinary, God ki is also extraordinary as it allowed Goku to almost destroy the universe. Two things can be true at once.
Like the story about DBS is mostly Goku and Vegets training to get stronger. If it was as easy at it was for 17 or Frieza it wouldn't be intresting. Pointing to different situations of different characters and applying that to goku and vegeta is a cop out.
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"So?" means that i didn't saw the point of the argument
When have i said that it was useless tho?
Base goku without god ki surpassed that with his AD alone so.........meh?
It shows that in universe you don't need god ki to be strong and top tier
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I know you don't see the point of my arguement, that's why you keep responding. I was arguing against the idea god ki is useless, if you switch goalposts and say that's never what was being argued about, fine, but my point is without god ki they don't survive beerus, frieza, they don't win the U6 torny, they don't win against goku black, they don't win the ToP.
Goku adapting to god ki is seen as an incredible thing that beerus even notes, so no, not meh.
Your last arguement tells me your arguing to argue, because I've already painted how how god ki isn't an instant win button and how application matters. You just argued against me using a point I already made.
People who keep up with god ki are extraordinary, those like goku and vegeta who use god ki are also extraordinary, those don't contradict each other.
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Right now. Go achieve it.
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Stop inventing lies about me, if I'm not going to denounce you now, I'm not lying or falsifying anything, all the proofs are there, if you want just read it and show it to someone that know Japanese, I just hate that people blame me for something I didn't do
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pretty sure this is not report worthy
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Let's not attribute malice to something that could just be a mistake. Accusing someone of lying isn't productive behavior. Keep it civil please
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yeah i agree, was just saying that it isn't really report worthy, not good to accuse someone tho, that was bad on their part
BlastX
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Black got it in Heroes (In know it's SSR2 but come on Rose is just Blue in a different color)
Nullflowerblush
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DRAGON BALL FOREVER says things like "Goku increased his strength by nearly twenty-times leading up to the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament" and "Training under Kami, Goku's progress doubled" in regards to differences in Power Levels throughout the years (10 vs 180; 260 vs 416). What to do with this.
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I have a dragon ball ToP upgrade planned but I don't know if I wanna do it because updating everyone who scales is 
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As an official guidebook I would assume that's usable. We use the 10x SS1 multiplier from the El Manga Legendario for Grade 3 don't we? So the issue is just the contradiction between official power levels and how much FOREVER claims Goku grew.
There's a pretty simple solution, I think. Power levels aren't linear. If they aren't linear then where's the contradiction? No known formula for them exists. So with that logic you could just calculate it as:
Goku (23rd) >> (40x 5-C) >> Goku (King Piccolo, 5-C leap) >>>> Goku (22nd) > (20x 8-C) > Goku (21st)
This would upgrade 23rd Budokai Goku and Piccolo to Low 5-B (Baseline is only 14.62x 5-C), keep Post-22nd Goku and King Piccolo at 5-C and would keep 22nd Goku at High 8-C. If passed, it would also scale to Raditz and Nappa who would both be Low 5-B and Freeza's soldiers (who are generally on par with or above 23rd Goku and Piccolo)
My only issue is what 'leading up to the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament' means. If it means Goku grew 20x after the 21st Budokai then there is some argument for 8-B 22nd Goku (8-C to baseline 8-B is a 44x gap, he grew 20x since the 21st Budokai but already grew much stronger pre-21st from Roshi's training)
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Nullflowerblush
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Everything from the Pilaf Saga, where he is described as having a Power Level of 10, and the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament is worth nearly an entire twenty-times increase.
Everything between the Piccolo fight, where he had a Power Level of 260, and the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament is nearly two-times.
Serlock_Holmes
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Firstly that points to the fact that kamehameha doesn't really have a multiplier but rather the accumulation of ki reached the 1000 power level and also that power levels....are somewhat linear? Then is the farmer with shotgun 1/30.000.000 of Frieza?
Nullflowerblush
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Can I say "shut the **** up"?
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People always say that Farmer with a Shotgun can't be High 6-A when the normal Bunny Guards survived Roshi blowing up the Moon while they were on it
Serlock_Holmes
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Farmer with Shotgun being Roshi's master all along. Didn't smoke Raditz out of pity.
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Ah, well in that case I'm not sure what would really change with this. The power levels already seem to reflect these changes decently. The only real issue is that Goku should have a power of nearly 520 when it's only 416 by Raditz (which is several years later) but you can just chalk that up to the numbers being rough.
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Serlock_Holmes
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Ironic seeing as how some of the best scenes are a result of them.Or maybe....just maybe:
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I'm bringing up the numbers because Goku growing 20x from Roshi and Korin lines up almost perfectly with his power level at the 22nd Budokai while his power by the 23rd Budokai wouldn't make as much sense. PLs are bullshit regardless, it just felt almost intentional.
Nullflowerblush
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The Power Levels are completely and utterly irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that Goku is explicitly described as growing x-times stronger.
"Goku's Power Level increased from 10 to 180" is worth nothing.
"Goku's strength increased by nearly twenty-times" is a different story entirely.
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If the statement is not for powerlevel, but for goku himself, then it should be 100% valid
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That seems like an illogical standard. Even if power levels aren't linear, the issue with using them is that the actual gap is usually way larger than the PL gap (the gap between 23rd Goku and Saiyan Saga Vegeta is thousands of times yet their power level gap is only around 50x). From that you can just look at the power level figures and say "Well Goku has a power level of 180 at the 22nd Budokai and a power of 10 at the start of the series so he must have grown at least 18x stronger." Like there isn't any example that I can think of where the power level gap is actually smaller than it should be, it's always similar or greater. So you can just use PL numbers to get a bare minimum. They're bullshit but that aspect remains fairly consistent.
To clarify my point: You can say Goku (PL 10) is at least twice as strong as the Farmer (PL 5) but you can't say the Farmer is half Goku's power. Because we know Goku double the power level (and so at least double the strength) but PL gaps tend to be exponential.
Either way you did a good job by finding those multipliers. Nice work.
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I'm waiting for the next fake DBS return announcement so I get see what new conspiracy theories people will come up with. We are bound for another 'leak' soon, it's been at least a month since the last one.
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See these numbers that keep track of how many times Toei employees take a shit per hour? They clearly tell us when DBS returns in Octobuary that we will be getting a retelling of the garlic Jr saga animated by higakai shitofuk
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Me coming out of break to bring up statements that quite literally say future world and alternate history in relation to toei and manga and statements mentioning the movies are parallel worlds
Deagon Maverick and Damage:
Deagon Maverick and Damage:
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Don't talk, broMe coming out of break to bring up statements that quite literally say future world and alternate history in relation to toei and manga and statements mentioning the movies are parallel worlds
Deagon Maverick and Damage:
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Yubel is very powerful, I heard it's at least 1-C/low 1-C, from merging 12 or 11 higher dimensions, it still exists in a world that is described as being at least 5D
Hasty12345
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Know how y
Know how you feelMe coming out of break to bring up statements that quite literally say future world and alternate history in relation to toei and manga and statements mentioning the movies are parallel worlds
Deagon Maverick and Damage:
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