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Never said it was.That isn't a solid argument for God ki being useless.
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Never said it was.That isn't a solid argument for God ki being useless.
I will remove your spleen.Never said it was.
I mean, if they could get that strong without it, what stoped goku from doing the same? Actually, 17 did that with basic training, and he doesn't even have kiNo it doesn't. Broly and Jiren being that strong doesn't mean God ki is useless, it means Broly and Jiren are strong as ****, one having a narrative reason, the other being Broly.
This is more because of them then anything else, dende has god ki, he isn't strong at allGoku and Vegeta are extraordinarily strong, which means they must have extraordinary competition.
Goku and Vegeta having god ki is the only reason they can compete with people like that to begin with.
17 has infinite stamina and was massively stronger than someone look Frieza without any training. Nearly two decades of training plus DBS power creep is more than enough to explain away his growth. Goku trained for 7 years in otherworld and didn't get nearly as strong.I mean, if they could get that strong without it, what stoped goku from doing the same? Actually, 17 did that with basic training, and he doesn't even have ki
This is more because of them then anything else, dende has god ki, he isn't strong at all
So?17 has infinite stamina and was massively stronger than someone look Frieza without any training.
Dbs power creep is just plot, plus, by logic, shouldn't have become just as much stronger?Nearly two decades of training plus DBS power creep is more than enough to explain away his growth. Goku trained for 7 years in otherworld and didn't get nearly as strong.
Do we have any statement that say "god ki>>normal ki in general"?Also I already addressed your second point, application of your ki is also important. Look, let's put it this way, if you gave gohan God ki, he'd probably get way stronger than he is now. God ki is a huge boost, but it isnt a 'lol you win' button, that wouldn't be interesting
Which counters the fact that he got that strong without god ki how?Broly is Broly, his character has always been strong for no reason.
The point was that he didn't need god ki to match and surpass god ki usersAnd we have no idea how old Jiren is, or what type of training he went through, and I've already explained the narrative reason he had for being so strong.
Training thoIt's a damned if you do damned if you don't, if goku and vegeta were that randomly strong when that's never been in line with their character, people would complain.
None of these are proper responses to my points. This is just handwaving, you are arguing to argue. 'So?' isn't an arguement.So?
Dbs power creep is just plot, plus, by logic, shouldn't have become just as much stronger?
Do we have any statement that say "god ki>>normal ki in general"?
Which counters the fact that he got that strong without god ki how?
The point was that he didn't need god ki to match and surpass god ki users
Training tho
"So?" means that i didn't saw the point of the argumentNone of these are proper responses to my points. This is just handwaving, you are arguing to argue. 'So?' isn't an arguement.
When have i said that it was useless tho?You seem to keep missing the point. The fact Broly and Jiren can do these things doesn't mean God ki is useless, it means they themselves are extraordinary for being able to match God ki users.
Base goku without god ki surpassed that with his AD alone so.........meh?Broly, even the Z version, was just big strong, and Super follows that albeit with a bit more character to him. Jiren was hyped up as **** for the fact he could surpass GoDs. They are extraordinary, God ki is also extraordinary as it allowed Goku to almost destroy the universe. Two things can be true at once.
It shows that in universe you don't need god ki to be strong and top tierLike the story about DBS is mostly Goku and Vegets training to get stronger. If it was as easy at it was for 17 or Frieza it wouldn't be intresting. Pointing to different situations of different characters and applying that to goku and vegeta is a cop out.
I know you don't see the point of my arguement, that's why you keep responding. I was arguing against the idea god ki is useless, if you switch goalposts and say that's never what was being argued about, fine, but my point is without god ki they don't survive beerus, frieza, they don't win the U6 torny, they don't win against goku black, they don't win the ToP."So?" means that i didn't saw the point of the argument
When have i said that it was useless tho?
Base goku without god ki surpassed that with his AD alone so.........meh?
It shows that in universe you don't need god ki to be strong and top tier
Right now. Go achieve it.Ssb2 when
Here's all the novels for anyone who wants them, there are multiple versions of the novel, not just one.
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/1EWCm7SqmVJ8E00tEYkhddNGbPkKDvohq
Page 208 on the side of superhero movie
Hermes even explains it
In order raws if anyone is interested
and raws from physical copy
pretty sure this is not report worthyStop inventing lies about me, if I'm not going to denounce you now, I'm not lying or falsifying anything, all the proofs are there, if you want just read it and show it to someone that know Japanese, I just hate that people blame me for something I didn't do
yeah i agree, was just saying that it isn't really report worthy, not good to accuse someone tho, that was bad on their partLet's not attribute malice to something that could just be a mistake. Accusing someone of lying isn't productive behavior. Keep it civil please
Black got it in Heroes (In know it's SSR2 but come on Rose is just Blue in a different color)Ssb2 when
As an official guidebook I would assume that's usable. We use the 10x SS1 multiplier from the El Manga Legendario for Grade 3 don't we? So the issue is just the contradiction between official power levels and how much FOREVER claims Goku grew.DRAGON BALL FOREVER says things like "Goku increased his strength by nearly twenty-times leading up to the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament" and "Training under Kami, Goku's progress doubled" in regards to differences in Power Levels throughout the years (10 vs 180; 260 vs 416). What to do with this.
My only issue is what 'leading up to the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament' means.
Everything from the Pilaf Saga, where he is described as having a Power Level of 10, and the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament is worth nearly an entire twenty-times increase.180
經過龜仙人和貓仙人的訓練後,悟空的實力提升了接近二十倍!
After being trained by [the Turtle Hermit] and [Karin], Goku's strength has increased by almost 20 times!
Everything between the Piccolo fight, where he had a Power Level of 260, and the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament is nearly two-times.416
得到天神的訓練,悟空進步接近一倍。為了使出龜波氣功而儲氣時,數值上升到接近1000!
After being trained by [Kami], Goku's strength nearly doubles. When Goku stored up his ki to perform the Kamehameha, this value increased to nearly 1,000!
Firstly that points to the fact that kamehameha doesn't really have a multiplier but rather the accumulation of ki reached the 1000 power level and also that power levels....are somewhat linear? Then is the farmer with shotgun 1/30.000.000 of Frieza?鸟山明漫画资料馆 - 七龙珠|阿拉蕾|鸟山明中短篇|龙珠AF|龙珠Multiverse|完全版|大全集
鸟山漫画资料馆即七龙珠在线漫画,包括龙珠、阿拉蕾各版本的在线漫画、鸟山明的中短篇漫画、龙珠的资料书籍、鸟山明的部分资料书籍等。ドラゴンボール鳥山明の世界。comic.dragonballcn.com
Everything from the Pilaf Saga, where he is described as having a Power Level of 10, and the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament is worth nearly an entire twenty-times increase.
Everything between the Piccolo fight, where he had a Power Level of 260, and the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament is nearly two-times.
Farmer with Shotgun being Roshi's master all along. Didn't smoke Raditz out of pity.People always say that Farmer with a Shotgun can't be High 6-A when the normal Bunny Guards survived Roshi blowing up the Moon while they were on it
Ah, well in that case I'm not sure what would really change with this. The power levels already seem to reflect these changes decently. The only real issue is that Goku should have a power of nearly 520 when it's only 416 by Raditz (which is several years later) but you can just chalk that up to the numbers being rough.鸟山明漫画资料馆 - 七龙珠|阿拉蕾|鸟山明中短篇|龙珠AF|龙珠Multiverse|完全版|大全集
鸟山漫画资料馆即七龙珠在线漫画,包括龙珠、阿拉蕾各版本的在线漫画、鸟山明的中短篇漫画、龙珠的资料书籍、鸟山明的部分资料书籍等。ドラゴンボール鳥山明の世界。comic.dragonballcn.com
Everything from the Pilaf Saga, where he is described as having a Power Level of 10, and the 22nd World Martial Arts Tournament is worth nearly an entire twenty-times increase.
Everything between the Piccolo fight, where he had a Power Level of 260, and the 23rd World Martial Arts Tournament is nearly two-times.
Or maybe....just maybe:Ah, well in that case I'm not sure what would really change with this. The power levels already seem to reflect these changes decently. The only real issue is that Goku should have a power of nearly 520 when it's only 416 by Raditz (which is several years later) but you can just chalk that up to the numbers being rough.
Ironic seeing as how some of the best scenes are a result of them.Or maybe....just maybe:
I'm bringing up the numbers because Goku growing 20x from Roshi and Korin lines up almost perfectly with his power level at the 22nd Budokai while his power by the 23rd Budokai wouldn't make as much sense. PLs are bullshit regardless, it just felt almost intentional.Or maybe....just maybe:
The Power Levels are completely and utterly irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that Goku is explicitly described as growing x-times stronger.Ah, well in that case I'm not sure what would really change with this. The power levels already seem to reflect these changes decently. The only real issue is that Goku should have a power of nearly 520 when it's only 416 by Raditz (which is several years later) but you can just chalk that up to the numbers being rough.
If the statement is not for powerlevel, but for goku himself, then it should be 100% validThe Power Levels are completely and utterly irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that Goku is explicitly described as growing x-times stronger.
"Goku's Power Level increased from 10 to 180" is worth nothing.
"Goku's strength increased by nearly twenty-times" is a different story entirely.
That seems like an illogical standard. Even if power levels aren't linear, the issue with using them is that the actual gap is usually way larger than the PL gap (the gap between 23rd Goku and Saiyan Saga Vegeta is thousands of times yet their power level gap is only around 50x). From that you can just look at the power level figures and say "Well Goku has a power level of 180 at the 22nd Budokai and a power of 10 at the start of the series so he must have grown at least 18x stronger." Like there isn't any example that I can think of where the power level gap is actually smaller than it should be, it's always similar or greater. So you can just use PL numbers to get a bare minimum. They're bullshit but that aspect remains fairly consistent.The Power Levels are completely and utterly irrelevant. What is relevant is the fact that Goku is explicitly described as growing x-times stronger.
"Goku's Power Level increased from 10 to 180" is worth nothing.
"Goku's strength increased by nearly twenty-times" is a different story entirely.
Don't talk, broMe coming out of break to bring up statements that quite literally say future world and alternate history in relation to toei and manga and statements mentioning the movies are parallel worlds
Deagon Maverick and Damage:
Yubel is very powerful, I heard it's at least 1-C/low 1-C, from merging 12 or 11 higher dimensions, it still exists in a world that is described as being at least 5DNot exactly related but I been watching Yugioh GX and come to a conclusion...
Yubel is like a Vegeta that (nearly) always wins.
Know how you feelMe coming out of break to bring up statements that quite literally say future world and alternate history in relation to toei and manga and statements mentioning the movies are parallel worlds
Deagon Maverick and Damage: