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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

I have zero respect for Toei.
Neither do I, but they are smart enough to realize they barely have to do shit with dragon ball to make money. They barely promoted Superhero and that movie made a **** ton for an anime movie. They are more than likely aware that America is their biggest market.
 
The difference is Toei has owned the sublicense to adapt the original manga for nearly four decades.
What're you trying to say? Toei not adapting the Super manga has nothing to do with licensing reasons, why would they have it? Bandai, not Toei, who're behind Dokkan evidently do, hence Gamma Burst Flash.
How long are we gonna keep doing this? I've already made the distinct and pointed how how minor these additions are, and you saying oh the anime can easily ignore them as if the Moro and Granolah arcs are of huge importance to goku and vegeta's characters with mastering ui and unlocking UE. It isn't head canon, you showed some revenue banners of a ******* gacha game where the viability of units are more important than the characters themselves, that proves nothing. It's not head canon, and it doesn't mean that they can monetize manga characters and choose not to. They can't, you know why? Because if they could we would have already had UE Vegeta and Moro, and you keep ignoring that.

I'm not the one coping, you are by stating those arcs aren't important when they are.

You can throw out numbers all you want but if you decide to ignore context or the grand picture for why they are the way they are, then I don't have to accept them as any meaningful evidence.

Go back and read Null's post.

You must think Toei is incapable of running their own business if you think they will leave the money an adaptation would net them on the table.
I'm not ignoring anything, I've already explained why they don't being that there are a multitude of more profitable alternatives. I can tell you're arguing without having actually played Dokkan so I'll point it out, but one of the biggest complaints in the Dokkan community is how they keep re-releasng the same characters over and over to capitalize. Same reason here. SSBE Vegeta with Gamma Burst Flash already proves they can use manga content, no amount of circular reasoning and selective speculating is invalidating official instances of them using the Manga's IP like that.

No, I simply think that with all the information that indicates they won't adapt the manga and the fact that continuing the story with new content from SH can easily for even better revenue, this is what they'll do. They can easily introduce a new transformation for Vegeta in a much more exciting way than the anti climatic snoozefest the manga version was and execute Goku's development in their own way. They don't have to do these arcs at all.
 
What're you trying to say? Toei not adapting the Super manga has nothing to do with licensing reasons, why would they have it? Bandai, not Toei, who're behind Dokkan evidently do, hence Gamma Burst Flash.

I'm not ignoring anything, I've already explained why they don't being that there are a multitude of more profitable alternatives. I can tell you're arguing without having actually played Dokkan so I'll point it out, but one of the biggest complaints in the Dokkan community is how they keep re-releasng the same characters over and over to capitalize. Same reason here. SSBE Vegeta with Gamma Burst Flash already proves they can use manga content, no amount of circular reasoning and selective speculating is invalidating official instances of them using the Manga's IP like that.

No, I simply think that with all the information that indicates they won't adapt the manga and the fact that continuing the story with new content from SH can easily for even better revenue, this is what they'll do. They can easily introduce a new transformation for Vegeta in a much more exciting way than the anti climatic snoozefest the manga version was and execute Goku's development in their own way. They don't have to do these arcs at all.
Okay so all of this was just opinion based and not liking the manga? Given how nonsensical most of your points where or how you are repeating things I've already addressed like how using a manga specific move is way too minor to really discredit anything I said.

Just say that instead of hiding behind mountains of red herrings and nothing arguments. You literally just gave me another reason to prove why they can't use manga characters, because if they are so strapped for content in Dokkan they would have done so already. You literally just provided a point against your own stance. Also i haven't touched dokkan in 8 months give me a ******* break.

Not adapting the arcs is nonsensical, and nothing I've seen has altered my position.
 
Okay so all of this was just opinion based and not liking the manga? Given how nonsensical most of your points where or how you are repeating things I've already addressed like how using a manga specific move is way too minor to really discredit anything I said.

Just say that instead of hiding behind mountains of red herrings and nothing arguments. You literally just gave me another reason to prove why they can't use manga characters, because if they are so strapped for content in Dokkan they would have done so already. You literally just provided a point against your own stance. Also i haven't touched dokkan in 8 months give me a ******* break.

Not adapting the arcs is nonsensical, and nothing I've seen has altered my position.
Uh no, the manga being a complete flop per actual numbers, or being neglected by the games as a result, isn't an opinion.

That's literally what you've been doing. I've sourced all my claims and you've responded with ignorant takes on things you don't seem to have done any research on (like claiming Volume 13 did extremely well lol), or a game you don't even play seriously.

Huh, they aren't strapped for content in Dokkan, it's the other way around. That's why they can rerelease the same characters again and again and still make bank unabated. They do his on purpose because they make the most money, even though they aren't strapped for other content, and that's exactly why people complain. And this is why I'm saying they have no reason to use UE and Moro, because of all these more profitable alternatives they have. You're missing the fact the alternatives they have are much more profitable, as evident in the Top 20 banners list where MUI Goku from the Anime with a literal Anniversary release was beaten by several Z/GT characters and all that. With that knowledge they have no reason to use manga material as it stands.

I don't care about changing anyone's position I simply stated my belief and defended this, we'll know whenever (if ever, doesn't seem like it anytime soon, since Oecuf and DBSchronicles have already said not to expect it before 2025 at the earliest) the anime comes back
 
Stuff like the "They can easily introduce a new transformation for Vegeta in a much more exciting way than the anti climatic snoozefest the manga version was and execute Goku's development in their own way. They don't have to do these arcs at all" part really makes this seem more like out of personal dislike for the manga arcs
 
Uh no, the manga being a complete flop per actual numbers, or being neglected by the games as a result, isn't an opinion.

That's literally what you've been doing. I've sourced all my claims and you've responded with ignorant takes on things you don't seem to have done any research on (like claiming Volume 13 did extremely well lol), or a game you don't even play seriously.

Huh, they aren't strapped for content in Dokkan, it's the other way around. That's why they can rerelease the same characters again and again and still make bank unabated. They do his on purpose because they make the most money, they aren't strapped for content, that's exactly why people complain. And this is why I'm saying they have no reason to use UE and Moro, because of all these more profitable alternatives they have. You're missing the fact the alternatives they have are much more profitable, as evident in the Top 20 banners list where MUI Goku from the Anime with a literal Anniversary release was beaten by several Z/GT characters and all that. With that knowledge they have no reason to use manga material as it stands.

I don't care about changing anyone's position I simply stated my belief and defended this, we'll know whenever (if ever, doesn't seem like it anytime soon, since Oecuf and DBSchronicles have already said not to expect it before 2025 at the earliest) the anime comes back
Dude, you can frame this argument any way you want, I've responded and pointed out how most of your evidence is flawed or lacking context. You can call me ignorant if you want, you can ignore me bringing up Super getting to #9 on some charts last year or that Super did alright last year coming in 35th for 2022, you can keep repeating the same points that's already been addressed, that still doesn't make up for that lack of any verifiable proof for your claims, despite what you think.

You said Moro and Granolah are obscure, I pointed out how in the broader Fandom they aren't. You tried to argue within the framing of the Japan market only, I pointed out how Dragon Ball is an international thing and toei is aware of over seas markets. You brought up some gacha game revenue charts, I pointed out gameplay reasons and that Z is more iconic than Super anyway so them selling better doesn't automatically mean they are choosing not to put more things in rather than then just being lazy, covering both ends of that arguement, and you called me ignorant. You tried using several things as proof for them not needing to use manga content, I brought up that they can't because if they could they would have been used in the same way things from Broly movie and ToP was.

That's basically been our discussion so far.

Even then, for what started as a mostly promotional supporting monthly manga that has no anime to support it like other mangas, Super was doing fine up until the Superhero retellings.

And now you are quoting people who threw up alarms an the anime returning in 2023 as evidence. Even then I don't recall them making that statement, either way, they aren't trust worthy sources, and even if they were they haven't said anything supporting your arguement.

I've done my research, that's why I find all of your points nonsensical, and nowhere near strong enough reasons for Toei not to adapt two massive arcs.

I don't care if you change your mind, you came to this opinion by looking at very certain pieces of data and coming to a very specific conclusion that ignores many more simpler interpations, so I know your heads in the sand.

I'm just saying I'm not convinced, no matter how you try to phrase this discussion. Too big a leap, not enough substantial proof that can't be explained by something requiring far less assumptions.

I'm close to being done responding because nothing new has been added to the discussion and we clearly aren't changing our minds.
 
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This article has a few points I was going to discuss anyway. There are a few other articles that point out the times DBS got into the top 10 on Oricon weekly and monthly ratings, but that's besides the overall point because using manga sales to indicate how well know something is in a community was a bad approach anyway.
 
Dude, you can frame this argument any way you want, I've responded and pointed out how most of your evidence is flawed or lacking context. You can call me ignorant if you want, you can ignore me bringing up Super getting to #9 on some charts last year or that Super did alright last year coming in 35th for 2022, you can keep repeating the same points that's already been addressed, that still doesn't make up for that lack of any verifiable proof for your claims, despite what you think.

You said Moro and Granolah are obscure, I pointed out how in the broader Fandom they aren't. You tried to argue within the framing of the Japan market only, I pointed out how Dragon Ball is an international thing and toei is aware of over seas markets. You brought up some gacha game revenue charts, I pointed out gameplay reasons and that Z is more iconic than Super anyway so them selling better doesn't automatically mean they are choosing not to put more things in rather than then just being lazy, covering both ends of that arguement, and you called me ignorant. You tried using several things as proof for them not needing to use manga content, I brought up that they can't because if they could they would have been used in the same way things from Broly movie and ToP was. You can limit it to Dokkan if you want, but I was talking in general, games and general merchandise as well.

Even then, for what started as a mostly promotional supporting manga that has no anime to support it like other mangas, Super was doing fine up until the Superhero retellings.

And now you are quoting people who threw up alarms an the anime returning in 2023 as evidence. Even then I don't recall them making that statement.

I've done my research, that's why I find all of your points nonsensical, and nowhere near strong enough reasons for Toei not to adapt two massive arcs.

I don't care if you change your mind, you came to this opinion by looking at very certain pieces of data and coming to a very specific conclusion that ignores many more simpler interpations, so I know your heads in the sand.

I'm just saying I'm not convinced, no matter how you try to phrase this discussion. Too big a leap, not enough substantial proof that can't be explained by something requiring far less assumptions.
See, here's the difference between what I said and yours in regards to Moro and Granola's popularity. One's actually sourced off actual quantifiable numbers between Youtube views and Manga Sales, and one's just anecdotal assertive bullshit with no actual citation for it.

Toei may be aware of overseas market, but never has it prioritized them. It's always been that way. Z being more iconic only helps my point in regards to them having no reason to bother with UE and Moro, and if I recall correctly I asked you to elaborate on these supposed """"gameplay reasons""" which you never did, probably knowing it's literal meaningless bullshit and there isn't any special gameplay reason that'd cause those results.

Though if you were trying to talk about how advanced/popular the game was, well, that's completely shooting yourself in the foot here.
5141b543fc5d4a6a7fe2bdc615d3411c.jpg

Aside from #3 and #6, all of these released before LR AGL UI Goku at the bottom of the list, some years before it. Compared to the rest of the 7, both the gameplay and the animation/art quality and budget is literally leaps and bounds beyond them, not to mention the game being bigger on the 6th year UI dropped. Hell some of these releases came out before active skills were even a thing 😭.

UI literally had the higher ground as far as "gameplay reasons" goes by every metric imaginable, and still proved to be nowhere near a top profitable option. When Anime UI with a once in a lifetime hype debut in the Anime couldn't cut it like that, it goes without saying they have no reason to use the even less popular variants of TUI and UE from the manga. ToP and Broly are Anime/Movie material and have the recognition to be usable, unlike the Manga. We already know they have the license to use the manga, and that legality isn't the reason.
 
Honestly y'all should just stop this conversation, it's getting super aggressive real fast and it's turning into a game of "who gets the last word"
 
See, here's the difference between what I said and yours in regards to Moro and Granola's popularity. One's actually sourced off actual quantifiable numbers between Youtube views and Manga Sales, and one's just anecdotal assertive bullshit with no actual citation for it.

Toei may be aware of overseas market, but never has it prioritized them. It's always been that way. Z being more iconic only helps my point in regards to them having no reason to bother with UE and Moro, and if I recall correctly I asked you to elaborate on these supposed """"gameplay reasons""" which you never did, probably knowing it's literal meaningless bullshit and there isn't any special gameplay reason that'd cause those results.

Though if you were trying to talk about how advanced/popular the game was, well, that's completely shooting yourself in the foot here.
5141b543fc5d4a6a7fe2bdc615d3411c.jpg

Aside from #3 and #6, all of these released before LR AGL UI Goku at the bottom of the list, some years before it. Compared to the rest of the 7, both the gameplay and the animation/art quality and budget is literally leaps and bounds beyond them, not to mention the game being bigger on the 6th year UI dropped. Hell some of these releases came out before active skills were even a thing 😭.

UI literally had the higher ground as far as "gameplay reasons" goes by every metric imaginable, and still proved to be nowhere near a top profitable option. When Anime UI with a once in a lifetime hype debut in the Anime couldn't cut it like that, it goes without saying they have no reason to use the even less popular variants of TUI and UE from the manga. ToP and Broly are Anime/Movie material and have the recognition to be usable, unlike the Manga. We already know they have the license to use the manga, and that legality isn't the reason.

ToP and Broly are anime and movie material, of course they'd be used.
Anecdotal bullshit ☠️☠️☠️☠️ there are recaps and reviews of Moro and Granolah on youtube with millions of views.

I'm not gonna take the time to respond to rest of your comment or you using ******* gacha game revenue as evidence for why the anime should skip over two entire ******* arcs if your gonna ignore opposition evidence and engage in bad faith. Dokkan was never my point, I was talking general merchandise and promoting, not just one game.

Even then, I've listed things that point out your evidence isn't so quite clear cut.

Accuse me of meaningless bullshit yet cherry vague revenue stats and use them to make sweeping claims while burying your head in the sand and ignoring basic reasoning.

There is shit from the manga that's super ******* recognizable. Broly and Superhero were almost immediately put into games, were Black Frieza which was a huge deal hasn't been put into anything.

I don't need metrics, it's called basic reasoning. I never claimed Toei prioritized the over seas market, but they obviously don't ignore it and aren't blind to how much revenue it brings them, so only seeing things throughthe lense of the japanese market when toei themselves probably dont do that never proved anything to begin with. But you jumped to that because you'd rather engage in bad faith then actually bring anything new to the discussion.
 
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See, here's the difference between what I said and yours in regards to Moro and Granola's popularity. One's actually sourced off actual quantifiable numbers between Youtube views and Manga Sales, and one's just anecdotal assertive bullshit with no actual citation for it.

Toei may be aware of overseas market, but never has it prioritized them. It's always been that way. Z being more iconic only helps my point in regards to them having no reason to bother with UE and Moro, and if I recall correctly I asked you to elaborate on these supposed """"gameplay reasons""" which you never did, probably knowing it's literal meaningless bullshit and there isn't any special gameplay reason that'd cause those results.

Though if you were trying to talk about how advanced/popular the game was, well, that's completely shooting yourself in the foot here.
5141b543fc5d4a6a7fe2bdc615d3411c.jpg

Aside from #3 and #6, all of these released before LR AGL UI Goku at the bottom of the list, some years before it. Compared to the rest of the 7, both the gameplay and the animation/art quality and budget is literally leaps and bounds beyond them, not to mention the game being bigger on the 6th year UI dropped. Hell some of these releases came out before active skills were even a thing 😭.

UI literally had the higher ground as far as "gameplay reasons" goes by every metric imaginable, and still proved to be nowhere near a top profitable option. When Anime UI with a once in a lifetime hype debut in the Anime couldn't cut it like that, it goes without saying they have no reason to use the even less popular variants of TUI and UE from the manga. ToP and Broly are Anime/Movie material and have the recognition to be usable, unlike the Manga. We already know they have the license to use the manga, and that legality isn't the reason.
why are you so pressed over such a ridiculous topic 😭
 
'Meaninglessness bullshit' mfer these are gacha game revenue that I don't know the context of. What's bullshit is ignoring the other side of my arguement and only using it to try and claim it actually backs you up. There could be multiple explanations for this, I'm not gonna take your one specific interpretation of this as gospel when literally all of your other points have thin as ****.

Those numbers don't automatically mean they don't use manga characters because it wouldn't be profitable, because given the lack of use in literally every other media besides some very minor exceptions, it more than likely means they can't use them. It would take next to no effort to put them into a mobile game, stop acting as if it's some grand undertaking.

'Here are some things that have been around longer than this one thing, so long some gameplay mechanics weren't a thing yet. Why is new thing not more popular than old thing that's had more time to make money, checkmate' see how easy it is to turn this little tangent on its head?
 
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Anecdotal bullshit ☠️☠️☠️☠️ there are recaps and reviews of Moro and Granolah.on youtube with millions of views.

I'm not gonna take the time to respond to rest of your comment or you using ******* gacha game revenue as evidence for why the anime should skip over two entire ******* arcs if your gonna ignore opposition evidence and engage in bad faith.

Even then, I've listed things that point out your evidence isn't so quite clear cut.

Accuse me of meaningless bullshit yet cherry vague revenue stats and use them to make sweeping claims while burying your head in the sand and ignoring basic reasoning.
So what? What actually matters is the sales, and the manga's a flop that loses consistently to moe series and other generic shonen and has bad sales that got cut in half after the Anime ended. And as far as Japan goes which is what actually matters, even on Youtube it's a flop.

What kind of strawman is that, I never said this on its own means they should skip these arcs, the Dokkan stats were simply to confirm how unpopular the manga is.

And no you didn't lol, the one thing you brought up without any elaboration just made your case worse since UI barely cracked top 10 with the high ground and lost to a literal Year 2 release (STR SSJ4 Goku and AGL SSJ4 Vegeta) despite coming out on Year 6, so of course there's no response.

What basic reasoning would indicate is that the Anime won't adapt the manga and manga only content it's never adapted before and even was officially stated to be completely independent of it.
a18ca42f36df804cf12776455fed5de1.jpg


As some other user even pointed out, Toriyama's involvement in last parts of the manga is extremely limited and it's primarily all Toyotaro and Victory Uchida's OCs. Toei does not reference this sort of material.
 
'
So what? What actually matters is the sales, and the manga's a flop that loses consistently to moe series and other generic shonen and has bad sales that got cut in half after the Anime ended. And as far as Japan goes which is what actually matters, even on Youtube it's a flop.

What kind of strawman is that, I never said this on its own means they should skip these arcs, the Dokkan stats were simply to confirm how unpopular the manga is.

And no you didn't lol, the one thing you brought up without any elaboration just made your case worse since UI barely cracked top 10 with the high ground and lost to a literal Year 2 release (STR SSJ4 Goku and AGL SSJ4 Vegeta) despite coming out on Year 6, so of course there's no response.

What basic reasoning would indicate is that the Anime won't adapt the manga and manga only content it's never adapted before and even was officially stated to be completely independent of it.
a18ca42f36df804cf12776455fed5de1.jpg


As some other user even pointed out, Toriyama's involvement in last parts of the manga is extremely limited and it's primarily all Toyotaro and Victory Uchida's OCs. Toei does not reference this sort of material.
I've already listed an article and specific examples of the manga doing well, so you can keep describing it as a flop, but it isnt. And using stats that don't include manga characters in its results and using that to come to a conclusion that the manga is unpopular when it wasn't in the discussion at all is dumb as ****, that doesn't prove anything.

Again, Dokkan was never a huge point and I've already mentioned how you riding the certain example is dumb anyway.

You seem to be unable to grasp that either 1, things change and the anime now adapts the manga more faithfully, or 2, they do like they did before with Toei vaguely adapting the arcs with their own writing teams.

Both of which are more reasonable assumptions than cherry picking manga sales and gacha game revenue statistics to infer they will skip two vitally important arcs.
 
Also it's super hard to take you seriously when you keep injecting T'oyble OC's' into your sentences, like we get it you have a hate boner for the manga.
 
Look, I'm done. This is going in circles, you don't think they'll be adapted, I do, we both aren't Toei and Shueashia and nothing will come out of this.

Can we call this quits?
 
'
I've already listed an article and specific examples of the manga doing well, so you can keep describing it as a flop, but it isnt. And using stats that don't include manga characters in its results and using that to come to a conclusion that the manga is unpopular when it wasn't in the discussion at all is dumb as ****. Like Japan has a fraction of the population as the US, proportionally a 1.4 million view YT video is perfectly acceptable.

Again, Dokkan was never a huge point and I've already mentioned how you riding the certain example is dumb anyway.

You seem to be unable to grasp that either 1, things change and the anime now adapts the manga more faithfully, or 2, they do like they did before with Toei vaguely adapting the arcs with their own writing teams.

Both of which are more reasonable assumptions than cherry picking manga sales and gacha game revenue statistics to infer they will skip two vitally important arcs.
Did you actually read that article, because most of it is just trying to rationalize why the sales are dropping and saying it's doing good for a certain standard, which I don't care about, since it's all the same as far as the end result of its outreach goes. In general, it even acknowledges that 150k mark, which isn't good. "Fraction of the populaton" it's only a 2.6x difference and Japan has way more DB fans than the USA.

Go look up the Box Office for the movies between Japan and the USA.

It is, Dokkan's the biggest cash cow for DB nowadays.

That's just your theory, and it's much more likely that how they've done things for many years stays the same. Toei never "vaguely adapted" anything before, they created their original versions from Toriyama's draft, and a much more fleshed out version with more material than the manga version.
 
Bro had to get the last word, and even then it was literally nothing other than reductive framing.

Olay blud, I'll walk away, because I am a hero and have great moral integrity as well as ungodly humility and patience.
 
It would be really funny if a trailer for the Moro arc being animated in Super season 2 were to be posted tomorrow
 
Well, maybe keep your feelings coherent put your thoughts into one post instead of triple posting and saying you want to stop after sending two messages, because I don't be refreshing the page to load new posts while typing one out already.

"Reductive reasoning" nah, that's literally what you tried with the Japan and USA population comparison ignoring all other aspects to that to downplay the fact the manga's a flop there, and not even reading the ""citation (thinkpiece by some rando)" you sent.
 
Well, maybe keep your feelings coherent put your thoughts into one post instead of triple posting and saying you want to stop after sending two messages, because I don't be refreshing the page to load new posts while typing one out already.

"Reductive reasoning" nah, that's literally what you tried with the Japan and USA population comparison ignoring all other aspects to that to downplay the fact the manga's a flop there, and not even reading the ""citation (thinkpiece by some rando)" you sent.
Bro we moving on, besides don't say you aren't doing reductive framing than in the same paragraph say 'thinkpiece by some rando'. Like you are some rando too, I don't put any actual credence into any of your interpations of the data you gave, especially given your clear biases and cherry picking.

Like you aren't any more reliable than he was. Let it go, let's move on
 
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Bro we moving on, besides don't say you aren't doing reductive framing than in the same paragraph say 'thinkpiece by some rando'. Like you are some rando too, I don't put any actual credence into any of your interpations of the data you gave, especially given your clear biases.

Like you aren't any more reliable than he was. Let it go, let's move on
They aren't my interpretations, the numbers speak for themselves. That's exactly what that post is, a thinkpiece by a rando on why the manga's sales are dropping (not refuting the fact it is, which is all that matters to me). I never acted as if I was anything more.or even said this will be the outcome objectively, I said many times I'm simply explaining why I have the belief I do

You should be telling yourself that, I'm not the one who wanted to walk away twice just to keep going and try and poison the well again 😂
You’ll never get the last word with gelato
🚴
 
They aren't my interpretations, the numbers speak for themselves. That's exactly what that post is, a thinkpiece by a rando on why the manga's sales are dropping (not refuting the fact it is, which is all that matters to me). I never acted as if I was anything more.or even said this will be the outcome objectively, I said many times I'm simply explaining why I have the belief I do

You should be telling yourself that, I'm not the one who wanted to walk away twice just to keep going and try and poison the well again 😂

🚴
Let it go and stop antagonizing. You poisoned the well by coming back with another nothing tangent when I was content to let it go. Move on.
 
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