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Argument against: Dragon Ball is too simple to have these things
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
- 1,512
It's a power feat, he just overpowered the effects of the ability. Hit isn't literally in the future, he goes to a dimension and pops out of it 0.1 seconds later.
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Ohh no, you just started something....
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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I know. I want to know how they'll debate that SSJB x10 is immeasurable, but SSJB itself is not (you can't multiply linearly to reach immeasurable speed). We see later that SSJB Goku managed to crack Hit's dimension with sheer power.
Jiren is also evidence that time abilities are overpowered with sheer power, not speed. I'm not gonna stand for blatant wank, thank you.
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Hitto's ability is not circumvented by greater power as in the manga, in the anime there is much more context, I don't think we are leveling too much, and this is not shown in the anime, (you might as well say that Hitto's abilities in the manga are bullied by greater Ki, but in the anime it's totally different)
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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It literally is. All his other time abilities are overpowered with power.
Hit's time abilities are just him hopping in a dimension, and getting out of it 0.1 seconds later. The opponents can still move in the real world during the timeskip, and hit himself doesn't know how they move because in his perspective, he can only see the moment started the timeskip. Anyone can freely move during the timeskip, all Goku did was hopping inside Hit's time dimension with sheer power.
It's not like Hit's actually moving THROUGH the temporal dimension, or the time stream, and Goku hit him inside that time stream, THAT would be Immeasurable Speed material.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,271
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you forget that power in DB powered by Ki, and it is stated multiple times in the series that Ki affect all physical stats, including speed
Vados statement say otherwise
sorry but, Hit was never confirmed to move into some special dimension in his first appearance, and then Vados still stated Hit skip through time, and then store all the time he skipped to creates his special dimension. he hopping into a dimension then getting out 0.1 second later is completely headcanon without actual back-up from source material
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Okay, so basically we've gotten nowhere and all we can do is split hairs. Because I hear so many people come in and say 'uh actually it's this no wank thank you' but there ends up being a whole ass debate about it anyway.
It's gonna be a debate for the 5th time and we will basically conclude to just leave things like it is.
It's gonna be a debate for the 5th time and we will basically conclude to just leave things like it is.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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I know it affects speed as well. The fact Jiren overpowered the ability with power alone is still true.
Literally visual information, and you're ignoring the fact that literally all his time abilities have been overpowered with sheer power. By simple association we can conclude Time Skip can also be overpowered by power.
Also, Finite speed x 10 cannot be immeasurable speed.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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A DISCUSSION IN THE DBS DISCUSSION THREAD?
THAT'S UNHEARD OF!!!
Stop complaining about the thread created for discussing being used for discussion, if you don't like it, go play a game or something.
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See what I mean lol, we do this like everytime. Altho the attitude is new, we're all usually just confused af for what it could mean for scaling
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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The thread is made for this exact purpose. If you don't enjoy discussing the show, leave bro.
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Lmfao I wasn't complaining, I was making an observation, if you wanna interpret it as that and reply in all caps and generally be aggressive, then that's your prerogative. I'm just saying, we've done this before, and nothing ever came of it
I never once tried to stop you from discussing, so go buck wild chief
SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,170
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In the Anime Hit's time skip is self hax. It is applied on himself to let him move forward in time. Hence the whole muscle twitching thing with Dypso. You can't formally resist this because it isn't applied on the opponent. That's why it's an immeasurable speed feat.
In the Manga time skip is used on the opponent hence you can resist it.
In the Manga time skip is used on the opponent hence you can resist it.
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Looks like Topaz cannot handle the supreme truth that is immeasurable speed DB
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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The slightest sarcasm and irony is enough to break the weak on the mind.
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Yes, I'm broken, can't you tell? I'm straight losing it rn, like I'm wigging out so hard rn you don't even know
Lol
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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Being wrong with confidence is always amusing to see.
You're comparing oranges and apples. The muscle statement isn't related to either or not the hax is self-applied or generally applied, it just means the hax depends on his autonomous response. Also, "applying timeskip on the opponent" makes no sense because you're claiming Hit makes the person itself skip 0.1 seconds in the future.
You're also making a leap so great Hit himself would be jealous. Yes, it's a self-hax. Hit is the only one that moves through time, obvious stuff is obvious. However, between the moment he disappears, and the 0.1 seconds where he isn't in the real world, the other characters can move, and if you're fast enough, you can react and realize he is skipping in time, and thus do something about it.
I wouldn't expect you to notice sarcasm on the use of the word "break" since you didn't realize it the first time either. "Sowwy for being agwessive uwu"
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It's okay, you're all forgiven <3
Vietthai96
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Visual is left vague in the air, no confirmation, also, if hit actually move into a pocket dimension in U6 vs U7 tournament, there will be a spatial cracking effects indicating a dimension being break if Goku actually break his pocket dimension in U6 vs U7 saga, like in DBZ with the vice shout, or this visual effect
only his Pocket Dimension and the Time cage was overpowered, but again it is still via Ki and Ki is DB's Universal Energy System, and Buu's Saga DB characters already destroy space-time, DBS is massively stronger than DBZ. All other instance his timeskip was never being crushed by raw power, or else SSB Vegeta will have an easy time fighting him, considering aside from hitting vital point which is lethal, his attacks deal almost no damage to Vegeta, and iirc, even Vegeta stated his attacks is not strong. Same with SSB Goku, Hit's attacks isn't that strong against him, and even Goku noted that after Hit's screaming, he isn't actually powered up and get stronger, and Hit reveal that he just evolve his time-skip. Only manga have the "Hit's timeskip do not work against stronger guy"
No they are superhuman level, we can see them all moving on screen
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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He didn't break it, he moved into it. Visuals are not vague at all, he uses the same effect for his pocket dimension.
It still doesn't matter as the factor that overpowered both abilities is power alone. Keeping insisting that speed had something to do with this is just blatantly wrong.
He can fight evenly with SSJB Goku without the time skip. You're still not acknowledging the basic math contradiction of having a non-infinite speed and multiplying that by 10 to get immeasurable speed
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,271
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wow, you still can't prove that hit moved to some dimension to supposely??, skip time???
1 or 2 effect get overpowered isn't an indicator that say every other effects of that ability also get overpowered. you getting to NLF territory
well, prove i'm wrong then
using basic math as argument, despite we dealing with fiction, nice counter-argument, by using basic math, SSG Goku from Battle of God should have at least infinite speed already, because that form multiplied his power up to uncountable infinite level to reach 2-C, thus his speed should be multiplied by the same amount, if we talking about math here
anyyyyyywayyyyy, i'm going to sleep ^^
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"You're still not acknowledging the basic math contradiction of having a non-infinite speed and multiplying that by 10 to get immeasurable speed"
I'm pretty sure that can't be used a argument to not use a feat here. The verse may not knowledge a literal infinite or beyond (though some do) for example in strength, but that won't stop someone from being rated as Galaxy level in base, but Low 2-C in a transforms state that's confirmed to just be a 100 times increase from their base. However if dodging Hit's abilities is actually immeasurable, I'm not sure if it not being treated as a grand feat of speed in verse would have a affect on whether or not it gets accepted or not.
I'm pretty sure that can't be used a argument to not use a feat here. The verse may not knowledge a literal infinite or beyond (though some do) for example in strength, but that won't stop someone from being rated as Galaxy level in base, but Low 2-C in a transforms state that's confirmed to just be a 100 times increase from their base. However if dodging Hit's abilities is actually immeasurable, I'm not sure if it not being treated as a grand feat of speed in verse would have a affect on whether or not it gets accepted or not.
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Then what do you suggest that we do then?
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Power AND speed.
Prove that lmao, it is verbatim stated he travels forward in time, unless you have proof for your claims, your opinion holds no weight here. When have they ever been shown moving when hit is time skipping? From their perspective, when hit time skips, for example, hit did a combo on goku in time skip, and from the audience perspective, goku literally just dropped and they didn't know what happened, hit just disappeared.
But he literally IS lmao, that is the whole point of his ability, which was stated to be the case multiple times, this just sounds like cope from your end.
SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,170
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The irony.
Are you really this dense or are you pretending?
And considering what you said about not reaching it with multiplier: This is the same verse where they f***king went from 4-B to 2-C with multipliers.
The_Yellow_Topaz
She/Her- 1,477
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WHEN?
When does THAT ever happen?
Is there any evidence that SSJG is even a multiplier?
No?
Then yeah nah.
Temporal Dimension cracked with a Kamehameha. That's only power.
Jiren slowly moved and overpowered Hit's time cage. Vados states his power is transcending time.
Only power. Stop making shit up.
It shows him moving through a dimension. Use your eyes.
That's literally how Goku predicts his movement and moves to counter. Hit skips those 0.1 seconds, they don't stop existing in the real world. People still move during 0.1 seconds from their pespective. He doesn't erase time.
Of course, the damage was sent to 0.5 seconds in the future. Hit is not present in the real world during the 0.5 seconds.
It does, yes. I've shown that time hax can be overpowered by brute power alone.
Don't have to prove a negative. You just claimed speed had something to do with it, you never proved anything.
Again the Kaioken alone proves that speed has nothing to do with it.
Immeasurable/10 is not finite.
Not an excuse.
Goku has finite speed in SSJB, so multiplying it by 10 means he has 10x that finite speed. That's how the ability works. You either downscale SSJB Goku, which is impossible since he can't move through time, or you acknowledge that interpreting it as an Immeasurable speed feat is wrong.
There is actually no evidence that SSJG is a multiplier. The god ki might just add to the user's strength.
Also, Kaioken, unlike SSJG and these forms, is actually stated to LINEARLY multiply one's power.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,400
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What yall talkin about
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,715
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Hit time Skip, and If It means Goku have immesurable speed.
SirAlex09
He/Him- 1,170
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No I am serious. Are you trolling on purpose?
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I'm talking about when goku intercepted hit mid time skip, that is a speed and power feat, mostly speed if we are being fr.
Not even making shit up when im talking about a completely different scenario
Use your eyes to read, what shows up is the visual of hit moving forward in time, that is why everyone else is frozen, including goku, because he is moving forward through linear time with his ability.
This is not goku predicting, this is goku CATCHING UP and intercepting hit while hit is moving FORWARD THROUGH TIME. Who said anything about erasing time? They move forward in time and seemingly appear back into the present, that is why the hits take time to go register on his body. It is a speed feat regardless.
So you just basically admitted that he does go .5 seconds into the future, because for that damage to be there in the future, hit would have to be in the future also. So goku intercepting him would be a speed feat
. And yes, goku is not present in the real world, or hit because they went to the future, which is, ya know, the whole point of that entire ******* fight.
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Touching on something Hit said himself, didn't their second fight Goku say Time-Skip won't work with him anymore? Then Hit confirmed it, he seemed to say he would use a different ability to fight Goku
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When is this stated or shown? Thay ability is never described like this.
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its never described or shown like that, he made it up
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Well according to Vados he does literally skip time. His dimension hopping ability doesn't have anything to do with the time skip, he just uses that to hide his body from being attacked and attack from without being hit back. The dimension in itself in the first place relies on his time skip to be created (it's said to be a parallel world made of snapshots of time he skips), so I definitely don't see how it could simultaneously be timeskip itself when he actually needs to use timeskip on its own to create the dimension in the first place, making it clear it's an independent different ability.
Hit does it through hax, but Goku blitzing does it come off as a speed feat, but for now this is considered an outlier it seems.
Hit does it through hax, but Goku blitzing does it come off as a speed feat, but for now this is considered an outlier it seems.
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There's just some inconsistencies, and since theres no such thing as limited immeasurable speed, i can't see a rating being accepted here
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,271
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i mean, after Kaioken, Piccolo said Goku is super fast and when Goku intercepting Hit timeskip, he said his "level" is far ahead Hit timeskip
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