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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

The_Yellow_Topaz said:
Why aren't the SSJ2/SSJ3 official multipliers considered here? If the argument is about power levels, the original text uses the term "twice as powerful", for SSJ2, 4x as powerful for SSJ3, unlike the 50x for SSJ which uses 50x Battle Power...
Click to expand...
Considering that we already make ssj2 10x ssj1, i think that they are not very useful now
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
SSJ3 having no boost in power:
Click to expand...
Well I think there's an argument for a SSJ3 multiplier via Gotenks

If Pre ROSAT Base Gotenks scales to Majin Vegeta who equals SSJ2 Goku

and if Pre ROSAT SSJ Gotenks was considered a proper opponent to Fat Majin Buu, then SSJ3 Goku should scale which would make

SSJ3 = 50 x SSJ2

Or a 25,000x multiplier
 
AwkguyDB said:
Well I think there's an argument for a SSJ3 multiplier via Gotenks

If Pre ROSAT Base Gotenks scales to Majin Vegeta who equals SSJ2 Goku

and if Pre ROSAT SSJ Gotenks was considered a proper opponent to Fat Majin Buu, then SSJ3 Goku should scale which would make

SSJ3 = 50 x SSJ2

Or a 25,000x multiplier
Click to expand...
This seems good tbh, scans?
 
TimmyTurnero said:
This seems good tbh, scans?
Click to expand...
Literally Gotenks' AP Justifications
Solar System level (Both he and Krillin believed that he could beatInnocent Buu despite knowing Majin Vegeta couldn't[14], survived a beating from Majin Buu and managed to escape but almost died[14])
far higher as a Super Saiyan (Was stated and implied several different times to have power surpassing that of Innocent Buu, which was ultimately confirmed by the narrator. He is even stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku) |
 
The second part is supplemented by Goku hyping up Gotenks to be "stronger than him" in his SSJ3 form to Majin Buu, which Piccolo and Krillin would already have a pretty good gauge on. Piccolo could tell that SSJ was likely enough to beat Buu with the "situation changing" after the arrival of Super Buu
 
AwkguyDB said:
Well I think there's an argument for a SSJ3 multiplier via Gotenks

If Pre ROSAT Base Gotenks scales to Majin Vegeta who equals SSJ2 Goku

and if Pre ROSAT SSJ Gotenks was considered a proper opponent to Fat Majin Buu, then SSJ3 Goku should scale which would make

SSJ3 = 50 x SSJ2

Or a 25,000x multiplier
Click to expand...
He wasn't considered a proper opponent to Majin Buu (pre-split). Super Buu is just "somewhat" stronger than Majin Buu (according to the Daizenshuu) and could manhandle Post ROSAT SSJ Gotenks, I don't think someone "somewhat stronger" than Majin Buu would have a 2500x gap.

The justifications on Gotenks profile only states that he is above SSJ2 Majin Vegeta via confidence scaling.
 
The_Yellow_Topaz said:
The justifications on Gotenks profile only states that he is above SSJ2 Majin Vegeta via confidence scaling.
Click to expand...
AwkguyDB said:
Literally Gotenks' AP Justifications
Solar System level (Both he and Krillin believed that he could beatInnocent Buu despite knowing Majin Vegeta couldn't[14], survived a beating from Majin Buu and managed to escape but almost died[14])
far higher as a Super Saiyan (Was stated and implied several different times to have power surpassing that of Innocent Buu, which was ultimately confirmed by the narrator. He is even stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku) |
Click to expand...
 
SirAlex09 said:
She said it was bigger than the sum part of both people increased tens of times.

This kinda proves it. "just" and "they" are the key words. They refer to their collective PL.
They are first added together and then increased by an unknown multiplier.

And the Daizenshuu(?) says it's more like multiplication rather than simply adding PL's together which is a rather vague statement to straight up assume it's Goku x Vegeta since it doesn't necessarily contradict Vados' formula.

Also: More like = similar rather than being the same.
Click to expand...
Tens of times doesn’t give us a estimate on how big that is tens of times could be anything and I’ve heard people say well tens of times has to be below 100 logically but that would contradict the showings if potara is only slightly above SSJ grade 1 and weaker than grade 3 tens of times in this context can literally mean anything

That doesn’t really prove anything Gogeta just says that instead of their powers being added it’s significantly magnified which can still work with A*B

And the SEG and daizenshuu say that their BP’s are being multiplied

The_Yellow_Topaz said:
Why aren't the SSJ2/SSJ3 official multipliers considered here? If the argument is about power levels, the original text uses the term "twice as powerful", for SSJ2, 4x as powerful for SSJ3, unlike the 50x for SSJ which uses 50x Battle Power...
Click to expand...
Nitpicking Gohan but we do the 2x boost for only SSJ2 gohan and not any other gohans
AwkguyDB said:
Well I think there's an argument for a SSJ3 multiplier via Gotenks

If Pre ROSAT Base Gotenks scales to Majin Vegeta who equals SSJ2 Goku

and if Pre ROSAT SSJ Gotenks was considered a proper opponent to Fat Majin Buu, then SSJ3 Goku should scale which would make

SSJ3 = 50 x SSJ2

Or a 25,000x multiplier
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t use this since we get a stated multiplier and it‘s not really a straightforward statement
 
AwkguyDB said:
Literally Gotenks' AP Justifications
Solar System level (Both he and Krillin believed that he could beatInnocent Buu despite knowing Majin Vegeta couldn't[14], survived a beating from Majin Buu and managed to escape but almost died[14])
far higher as a Super Saiyan (Was stated and implied several different times to have power surpassing that of Innocent Buu, which was ultimately confirmed by the narrator. He is even stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Goku) |
Click to expand...
Then it's a matter of SSJ3 Goku and Pre ROSAT SSJ Gotenks being both immeasurably stronger than Innocent Buu, but not comparable to one another in any way.

This justification says SSJ Gotenks surpasses Innocent Buu, it also says he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku, so the comparison becomes even more iffy.
 
Important, does anyone know where this image comes from?

E7shnM3VUAIxOTz


If it's official, it's one more reliable source stating the official multipliers of the form.

EDIT: Poster says it's from V-Jump.

A cleaner version here:
SHfh2A5.jpg
 
I still don’t agree with MSSJ = SSJ like that doesn’t make sense. It would defeat the purpose of even trying to do anything against Cell + would had been a waste of time

MSSJ > Grade 3 >> Ascended SSJ
Hell it’s obvious since even Trunks was ******** himself when they witness MSSJ power
 
BlackeJan said:
I still don’t agree with MSSJ = SSJ like that doesn’t make sense. It would defeat the purpose of even trying to do anything against Cell + would had been a waste of time

MSSJ > Grade 3 >> Ascended SSJ
Hell it’s obvious since even Trunks was ******** himself when they witness MSSJ power
Click to expand...
Well, according to the scans, Goku says all he did was use SSJ in his base form, making it a neutral state.
It’s not a higher multiplier Goku just got a shit ton stronger doing this.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Well, according to the scans, Goku says all he did was use SSJ in his base form, making it a neutral state.
It’s not a higher multiplier Goku just got a shit ton stronger doing this.
Click to expand...
Yeah hence why I’m saying that MSSJ is better then even Grade 3. Thanks to them not having to be able to waste ki like that, they can become even more powerful then even Grade 3 itself
 
XXBenShapiroXx said:
Did we ever really figure out what Goku basically beating Hit's timeskip meant for his abilities? Is it just time stop/skip resistance?
Click to expand...
It’s a speed feat. His ability isn’t freezing time or anything of the sort, he’s literally in the future. There’s nothing to resist or overcome. The only way to beat this is for Goku to either have his own variant of time travel (not possible) or to travel in the future with sheer speed (what literally happen).


It’s like if someone used a time machine to travel to the future and idk, kill you? But in his attempt to kill you, you also, spontaneous travel to the future without a machine but by charging at him rly fast, and punch him in the face. What exactly are you resisting?
 
We know it has to be something, like we can't just say 'oh it didn't happen'. I mean it wouldn't surprise me if this place did but still, it's confusing because it depends on how you interpret the fight I guess.
 
I think a possible crt should be done to update DB speed (based on Hitto),although the speech of that angel quoting that Jiren transcends time is true
 
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