• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

I’m not ignoring anything lol
Then why do you consistenly not adress and simplyfies my argument?

Thats explained here 0:42 Beerus saw Goku as unworthy of his time because his god power ran out but hes asking goku how? Because his red aura has dissipated and he was now a regular super saiyan Beerus assumed Goku got weaker until he got punched twice and asked Goku what was going on

and you still ignored the point were i addressed this, "if beerus still didn't thought of goku as worth his time even after receiving an attack from him, then how could goku still be at exactly ssjg level when an attack from him did not impressed or interested beerus at all?" You say you don't ignore but you constantly do, simplyfiyng the argument to ridiculous degrees

Goku tells us he didn’t even notice his god power was gone because he didn’t feel a difference in power at 0:48 Goku tells us this there was no drop in power
And yet his showings show otherwise, plus you seem to keep ignoring the part were i say "not a noticeable drop" when refering to how much weaker goku is in comparison, it was too small for him to notice, and yet you keep saying you don't ignore stuff

Goku still thought he was in SSJG too Beerus saw it as a fluke the first time, but with Goku’s second punch he actually questioned Goku.
and if goku was always as strong why didn't he comented anything and still saw goku as not worthy after the first punch?

If Goku wasn‘t SSJG level Beerus wouldn’t have asked Goku
he was at the time of the second punch, again, you seem to be ignoring his AD for some reason


, but then it’s revealed he kept his god power its not stated there’s a minuscule drop in power or whatever head canon you’re spouting
how could it be headcanon when i am using purely scenes from the fight itself and not any speculation?, there is no need for a statement if we are visually shown that he is not quite there by the time of the immediate detransformation

characters can feel even small changes in their power Goku would notice a drop in his power and thats why he commented that he didn’t feel a decrease
what part of "not noticeable" you don't get?

“yeah, while he easily dodged the majority of them, and even the one that hit wasn't impressive enough for beerus to consider goku worth of his time, only after the second one he started to question how could goku still keep up, tell me, if goku was indeed just as strong as before, how come beerus shruged off his punch?” Uh, no? Beerus explains why he thought Goku wasn’t worth his time at 0:42 he lost the aura of Super Saiyan God
and he would have changed his mind immediatly after the first punch hit him, since he would have saw that goku was still in ssjg levela of power

Beerus finally questioned what was going on after the second punch because he thought the first one was a fluke.
now you are the one saying headcanon

Also, Beerus literally got sent flying from Goku’s punch I have no idea what you’re entailing.
and still didn't thought that the power behind it was worth his time....why you keep ignoring the main part of the argument?

Just because Goku missed a couple punches doesn’t mean there was some head canon minuscule drop in power you’re suggesting.
yes it does when beerus was extremely more casual and not in guard, completely dismotivated, and still dodged most of them extremely casualy, but you again, ignored the main point of the argument and simplified it to "goku dodged" when that is not at all the full argument or the full scope of the main point

“the show clearly shows in the scene that goku was not quite there yet, his body was said to have learned from the form and was pushed to new heights, that is all that is said, which is true by what i am saying, he just got up to the level really fast thanks to his AD” The scene just shows us that Goku didn’t lose his previous power and if his body was pushed to new heights it means he‘s getting even stronger at that point which is what I agree with
Though this doesn’t mean Goku had a miniscule drop in power this just means SSJ Goku getting stronger in combat>SSJ Goku initial>=SSJG Goku that doesn’t mean Initial SSJ Goku<SSJG Goku
pushed to new merely means that he himself has grow, it doesn't mean that he is exactly as strong as when he was ssjg

I know you’re saying he’s slightly weaker everything in the show and the statements say otherwise.
the scene itself supports it with how beerus acted towards his attacks even after feeling them and the statements do not contradict this notion at all, but once again, i am sure you will find a way to simplify them...oh well

He isn’t slightly weaker if anything the opposite. Also if for some reason you think SSJ Goku missing his punches means he’s slightly weaker. 35:00 this is the final SSJG attacks before he turns into SSJ again Goku literally misses all his punches and then Beerus grabs his punches after he misses a couple and Goku knees him in the face.

yeah, because he is in the middle of detransforming, tell me, did you watched the entire fight prior? Because i gotta say, doesn't seem like you do when you aee using one scene from the end of the section, when the entire fight prior they were pretty even, but the moment goku started to detransform he did worst, i wonder why huh?

So you can’t use that “b-but Beerus dodged his attacks so he got weaker!” excuse
again, simplifying the argument to the extreme, it makes me wonder if you understand what words such as "casual" means

“says the one ignoring key words and points of my messages.......really, you somehow simplyfied my point so much to be just "he dodged, so weaker" and didn't even tried to argue the "beerus was completely unimpressed by the blow dealt by goku" point, and yet i am the one ignoring somehow even tho i am litterally quoting every response to make sure i am covering every point, i really don't get what you are saying here” I’m not ignoring “key words” Goku didn’t get some miniscule drop in power like you’re suggesting, and the show says otherwise.
and you completely ignored the message and repeated yourself again, why did i expected any less from you

Even though, it would change nothing it’s inaccurate and we don’t accept it. I already explained this it’s not Beerus was unimpressed by Goku’s attack he just thought Goku’s God Power had expired, and he realized something was off after getting punched the second time where we literally get our explanation.
Why didn't he got that realization aftet the first punch? If goku truly was as strong he would have noticed immediatly, unless you sre saying that beerus is a moron that can't feel how strong the blows he is receiving are that is

“they also exchanged energy beams, had a whole fist to fist exchange, heck the whole shockwave scene was entirely based on goku matching beerus' punches, honestly have you even watched the fight?” I don’t see how this changes, but yeah I’ve watched the fight. Beerus dodging a couple punches doesn’t change anything
stop simplyifiyng the argument, the argument is not simply that he dodged, is that he casually did it with extreme ease

and Beerus wasn’t unimpressed by Goku’s attacks, he was impressed that’s why he questioned Goku in SSJ state.
then why did he still said that goku wasn't worth after he got hit the first time?

”you are the one ignoring the entire situation, and using statements that are true even with the points is am saying” I didn’t ignore a single word you said I addressed all of it and told you why was it wrong.
Then why do you have the need to overly simplify the arguments over and over again while repeating the same phrase over and over?

Goku becoming a minuscule amount weaker is never implied or stated.
it is implied as i have explained

Goku explains that he didn’t even realize he was gone from his god power
again, ignoring the "not noticeable" part of my argument

and his power didn’t change this literally goes against your whole argument.
His power did change, this literally goes against your whole argument
 
Then why do you consistenly not adress and simplyfies my argument?


and you still ignored the point were i addressed this, "if beerus still didn't thought of goku as worth his time even after receiving an attack from him, then how could goku still be at exactly ssjg level when an attack from him did not impressed or interested beerus at all?" You say you don't ignore but you constantly do, simplyfiyng the argument to ridiculous degrees


And yet his showings show otherwise, plus you seem to keep ignoring the part were i say "not a noticeable drop" when refering to how much weaker goku is in comparison, it was too small for him to notice, and yet you keep saying you don't ignore stuff


and if goku was always as strong why didn't he comented anything and still saw goku as not worthy after the first punch?


he was at the time of the second punch, again, you seem to be ignoring his AD for some reason



how could it be headcanon when i am using purely scenes from the fight itself and not any speculation?, there is no need for a statement if we are visually shown that he is not quite there by the time of the immediate detransformation


what part of "not noticeable" you don't get?


and he would have changed his mind immediatly after the first punch hit him, since he would have saw that goku was still in ssjg levela of power


now you are the one saying headcanon


and still didn't thought that the power behind it was worth his time....why you keep ignoring the main part of the argument?


yes it does when beerus was extremely more casual and not in guard, completely dismotivated, and still dodged most of them extremely casualy, but you again, ignored the main point of the argument and simplified it to "goku dodged" when that is not at all the full argument or the full scope of the main point


pushed to new merely means that he himself has grow, it doesn't mean that he is exactly as strong as when he was ssjg


the scene itself supports it with how beerus acted towards his attacks even after feeling them and the statements do not contradict this notion at all, but once again, i am sure you will find a way to simplify them...oh well


yeah, because he is in the middle of detransforming, tell me, did you watched the entire fight prior? Because i gotta say, doesn't seem like you do when you aee using one scene from the end of the section, when the entire fight prior they were pretty even, but the moment goku started to detransform he did worst, i wonder why huh?


again, simplifying the argument to the extreme, it makes me wonder if you understand what words such as "casual" means


and you completely ignored the message and repeated yourself again, why did i expected any less from you


Why didn't he got that realization aftet the first punch? If goku truly was as strong he would have noticed immediatly, unless you sre saying that beerus is a moron that can't feel how strong the blows he is receiving are that is


stop simplyifiyng the argument, the argument is not simply that he dodged, is that he casually did it with extreme ease


then why did he still said that goku wasn't worth after he got hit the first time?


Then why do you have the need to overly simplify the arguments over and over again while repeating the same phrase over and over?


it is implied as i have explained


again, ignoring the "not noticeable" part of my argument


His power did change, this literally goes against your whole argument
I’m not even gonna respond to all of this your arguments that are relevant but Stem from not watching the clip

”and you still ignored the point were i addressed this, "if beerus still didn't thought of goku as worth his time even after receiving an attack from him, then how could goku still be at exactly ssjg level when an attack from him did not impressed or interested beerus at all?" You say you don't ignore but you constantly do, simplyfiyng the argument to ridiculous degrees” Beerus assumed the fight was over because Goku lost his SSJG aura he didn’t think it was over because he thought Goku was weak, the whole reason Beerus asked Goku if he asked if he was out of SSJG was because he was literally impressed what do you not get?

0:17 to like 0:55 literally shows this and we get an explanation there’s no miniscule decrease in power

”yeah, because he is in the middle of detransforming, tell me, did you watched the entire fight prior? Because i gotta say, doesn't seem like you do when you aee using one scene from the end of the section, when the entire fight prior they were pretty even, but the moment goku started to detransform he did worst, i wonder why huh?” He didn’t do anything that would contradict him being at the same strength Beerus and Goku were matching each other, but Beerus always had the slight upper hand because Beerus isn’t going all out. That’s why he could still overpower Goku as he was getting stronger, but yeah Goku did match Beerus’s power as a SSJG. The thing you don’t understand is that Beerus dodging “with extreme ease” doesn’t matter because Goku still landed his punch and impressed him.

“Why didn't he got that realization aftet the first punch? If goku truly was as strong he would have noticed immediatly, unless you sre saying that beerus is a moron that can't feel how strong the blows he is receiving are that is” He did he got sent back by it, but he thought it wouldn’t happen again Beerus isn’t a moron he realized this the first time, but he actually questioned it the second time then we get our explanation.

”again, ignoring the "not noticeable" part of my argument” DB characters can notice even the slightest decrease in their power so Goku would notice if his body had drop, but he clearly says that he didn’t feel any weaker. 0:42 and it’s narratively implied otherwise too. Also considering Goku’s body learned to make his power his own why would he be slightly weaker? This minuscule decrease is not implied anywhere goku landing and missing a couple punches does not even mean this. Also, even if there was a minuscule difference it wouldn’t even change the fight much if the headcanon minuscule difference is so small that Goku didn’t even notice it and he would have to be a lot weaker with your argument.

“His power did change, this literally goes against your whole argument” I meant his power didn’t get any weaker which is said here 0:42 I don’t see how you can keep ignoring this and say its a minuscule difference so he didn’t notice it, but if it was Goku would be able to sense it.
 
Gonna quote a section from one of my favorite respect threads
.........
Goku himself still dashes towards Beerus, without realizing he got weaker. This is all after he got flicked by Beerus:

Image


This same Ssj Goku does better than the Goku who, at the end, faired very worse against Beerus:

Image


Image


This caused Beerus to question himself again (he wouldn't do that if he was weaker or if he was getting weaker, since Goku later got even stronger as a Ssj):

Image


Image


Happens TWICE:

Image


Image


Beerus knows that Goku can surpass his limits naturally.

Beerus tells Goku the case:


Image


Image


"I thought your time was up"

Implying he never got the slightest bit weaker at all.

Goku realizes he changed after being notified by Beerus:


Image


Image


Image


Goku bluntly confesses that he doesn't feel weaker at all:

Image


Image


Beerus explains it:

Image


Image


Image


Image


With all of that mentioned, we can easily conclude that Goku's Power never got weaker at all. Despite the form being lost (this time limit was retconned in the tournament of power arc), the power completely merged with Goku. Thus, the power itself remained inside him, rather than the form in general. No power was lost, and Goku is still prone to getting stronger and breaking his initial limits further more.
 
I’m not even gonna respond to all of this your arguments that are relevant but Stem from not watching the clip
i did watched the clip

”and you still ignored the point were i addressed this, "if beerus still didn't thought of goku as worth his time even after receiving an attack from him, then how could goku still be at exactly ssjg level when an attack from him did not impressed or interested beerus at all?" You say you don't ignore but you constantly do, simplyfiyng the argument to ridiculous degrees” Beerus assumed the fight was over because Goku lost his SSJG aura he didn’t think it was over because he thought Goku was weak, the whole reason Beerus asked Goku if he asked if he was out of SSJG was because he was literally impressed what do you not get?
Beerus assumed the fight was over because he was not at ssjg anymore, so he assumed he would be back at being way to weak to be worth a fight, yet even after he felt the punch he still kept the same mindset, tell me, do you think that beerus is an idiot? do you think that he can't feel the power and the strenght of an opponent? specially after said opponent just landed a punch in his face? the point was not the transformation itself, but the power goku got from it, which beerus would feel instantly that goku still got after he detransformed from the god form, goku's strenght was all that mattered to beerus in that scene, the form itself has little meaning as shown later in the fight since goku still got to give him fun

0:17 to like 0:55 literally shows this and we get an explanation there’s no miniscule decrease in power

the explanation is that goku's body learned from the experience of having such power and then grew to new heights, which is true with what i am saying, i have no idea why you keep showing this clip when it doesn't anything i have been saying this whole time at all

”yeah, because he is in the middle of detransforming, tell me, did you watched the entire fight prior? Because i gotta say, doesn't seem like you do when you aee using one scene from the end of the section, when the entire fight prior they were pretty even, but the moment goku started to detransform he did worst, i wonder why huh?” He didn’t do anything that would contradict him being at the same strength Beerus and Goku were matching each other, but Beerus always had the slight upper hand because Beerus isn’t going all out. That’s why he could still overpower Goku as he was getting stronger, but yeah Goku did match Beerus’s power as a SSJG. The thing you don’t understand is that Beerus dodging “with extreme ease” doesn’t matter because Goku still landed his punch and impressed him.
yeah, the second punch, while beerus was casually flickring him away with one finger and dodging his attacks easily and casually, while also not seeing goku as worth it after the first punch, you do understand what AD is right? heck, that was the whole reason goku was still strong enough to compete with beerus later on

“Why didn't he got that realization aftet the first punch? If goku truly was as strong he would have noticed immediatly, unless you sre saying that beerus is a moron that can't feel how strong the blows he is receiving are that is” He did he got sent back by it, but he thought it wouldn’t happen again
he got sent back yes, but he still thought that goku was not worth his time, also he would have comented on his strenght if he was as strong as ssjg after the first punch, for someone acusing me so strongly of headcanoing you seem to be doing it a lot now

Beerus isn’t a moron he realized this the first time, but he actually questioned it the second time then we get our explanation.
he clearly didn't hence why he said, and i quote "you super saiyan god power has played out, you are once again unworthy of my time", now who is the one ignoring statements huh?

”again, ignoring the "not noticeable" part of my argument” DB characters can notice even the slightest decrease in their power so Goku would notice if his body had drop
says who?

it’s narratively implied otherwise too. Also considering Goku’s body learned to make his power his own why would he be slightly weaker?
the body learned and accended to new heights, it doesn't have to mean that he is exactly as strong from the start

This minuscule decrease is not implied anywhere
again ignoring how beerus easily dodged most of his attacks and wasn't impressed after he got punched once, really how many times will i have to say this to you?

goku landing and missing a couple punches does not even mean this.
goku is not missing, beerus is casually dodging and is left unimpressed by the first punch, also you have to stop ignoring the main word "easily dodging" it is kind of important for the argument

Also, even if there was a minuscule difference it wouldn’t even change the fight much
which is what i said.............

if the headcanon minuscule difference is so small that Goku didn’t even notice it and he would have to be a lot weaker with your argument.
no he would not, no idea how you got that impression

“His power did change, this literally goes against your whole argument” I meant his power didn’t get any weaker which is said here 0:42 I don’t see how you can keep ignoring this and say its a minuscule difference so he didn’t notice it, but if it was Goku would be able to sense it.

you don't need to keep cliping the same video over and over, it won't make me believe more, it was simply not a big enough of a difference for him to feel, i told you that, i addressed that, and you know this, you even responded to my replies and points to this
 
i did watched the clip


Beerus assumed the fight was over because he was not at ssjg anymore, so he assumed he would be back at being way to weak to be worth a fight, yet even after he felt the punch he still kept the same mindset, tell me, do you think that beerus is an idiot? do you think that he can't feel the power and the strenght of an opponent? specially after said opponent just landed a punch in his face? the point was not the transformation itself, but the power goku got from it, which beerus would feel instantly that goku still got after he detransformed from the god form, goku's strenght was all that mattered to beerus in that scene, the form itself has little meaning as shown later in the fight since goku still got to give him fun


the explanation is that goku's body learned from the experience of having such power and then grew to new heights, which is true with what i am saying, i have no idea why you keep showing this clip when it doesn't anything i have been saying this whole time at all


yeah, the second punch, while beerus was casually flickring him away with one finger and dodging his attacks easily and casually, while also not seeing goku as worth it after the first punch, you do understand what AD is right? heck, that was the whole reason goku was still strong enough to compete with beerus later on


he got sent back yes, but he still thought that goku was not worth his time, also he would have comented on his strenght if he was as strong as ssjg after the first punch, for someone acusing me so strongly of headcanoing you seem to be doing it a lot now


he clearly didn't hence why he said, and i quote "you super saiyan god power has played out, you are once again unworthy of my time", now who is the one ignoring statements huh?


says who?


the body learned and accended to new heights, it doesn't have to mean that he is exactly as strong from the start


again ignoring how beerus easily dodged most of his attacks and wasn't impressed after he got punched once, really how many times will i have to say this to you?


goku is not missing, beerus is casually dodging and is left unimpressed by the first punch, also you have to stop ignoring the main word "easily dodging" it is kind of important for the argument


which is what i said.............


no he would not, no idea how you got that impression


you don't need to keep cliping the same video over and over, it won't make me believe more, it was simply not a big enough of a difference for him to feel, i told you that, i addressed that, and you know this, you even responded to my replies and points to this
“Beerus assumed the fight was over because he was not at ssjg anymore, so he assumed he would be back at being way to weak to be worth a fight, yet even after he felt the punch he still kept the same mindset, tell me, do you think that beerus is an idiot? do you think that he can't feel the power and the strenght of an opponent? specially after said opponent just landed a punch in his face? the point was not the transformation itself, but the power goku got from it, which beerus would feel instantly that goku still got after he detransformed from the god form, goku's strenght was all that mattered to beerus in that scene, the form itself has little meaning as shown later in the fight since goku still got to give him fun” I’ve never seen somebody manage to stonewall and ignore everything I said like this. He did feel the strength of his opponent that’s the reason why we got the explanation down below Beerus literally got punches landed on him and he was confused why Goku wasn’t weaker when his red aura disappeared, but it’s revealed Goku retained his power read below.

Gonna quote a section from one of my favorite respect threads
.........
Goku himself still dashes towards Beerus, without realizing he got weaker. This is all after he got flicked by Beerus:

Image


This same Ssj Goku does better than the Goku who, at the end, faired very worse against Beerus:

Image


Image


This caused Beerus to question himself again (he wouldn't do that if he was weaker or if he was getting weaker, since Goku later got even stronger as a Ssj):

Image


Image


Happens TWICE:

Image


Image


Beerus knows that Goku can surpass his limits naturally.

Beerus tells Goku the case:


Image


Image


"I thought your time was up"

Implying he never got the slightest bit weaker at all.

Goku realizes he changed after being notified by Beerus:


Image


Image


Image


Goku bluntly confesses that he doesn't feel weaker at all:

Image


Image


Beerus explains it:

Image


Image


Image


Image


With all of that mentioned, we can easily conclude that Goku's Power never got weaker at all. Despite the form being lost (this time limit was retconned in the tournament of power arc), the power completely merged with Goku. Thus, the power itself remained inside him, rather than the form in general. No power was lost, and Goku is still prone to getting stronger and breaking his initial limits further more.
If you somehow manage to ignore all of this and ask “B-but Beerus said Goku wouldn’t be worth his time anymore!” Then ignore Beerus getting punched on multiple times and then questioning how Goku was still this strong when his god aura ran out I’m just not gonna respond to you anymore because you’re basically ignoring everything.
 
“Beerus assumed the fight was over because he was not at ssjg anymore, so he assumed he would be back at being way to weak to be worth a fight, yet even after he felt the punch he still kept the same mindset, tell me, do you think that beerus is an idiot? do you think that he can't feel the power and the strenght of an opponent? specially after said opponent just landed a punch in his face? the point was not the transformation itself, but the power goku got from it, which beerus would feel instantly that goku still got after he detransformed from the god form, goku's strenght was all that mattered to beerus in that scene, the form itself has little meaning as shown later in the fight since goku still got to give him fun” I’ve never seen somebody manage to stonewall and ignore everything I said like this. He did feel the strength of his opponent that’s the reason why we got the explanation down below Beerus literally got punches landed on him and he was confused why Goku wasn’t weaker when his red aura disappeared, but it’s revealed Goku retained his power read below.


If you somehow manage to ignore all of this and ask “B-but Beerus said Goku wouldn’t be worth his time anymore!” Then ignore Beerus getting punched on multiple times and then questioning how Goku was still this strong when his god aura ran out I’m just not gonna respond to you anymore because you’re basically ignoring everything.
i already read that, @AwkguyDB showed good arguments and context from the sub version, contrary to you, therefore i agree with him, seriously why didn't you do that?

also lol the wasn't worth his time phrase only happens in the dub, said dub you kept showing instead of the sub that would help your case, skill issue on your part tbh
 
i already read that, @AwkguyDB showed good arguments and context from the sub version, contrary to you, therefore i agree with him, seriously why didn't you do that?

also lol the wasn't worth his time phrase only happens in the dub, said dub you kept showing instead of the sub that would help your case, skill issue on your part tbh
Kkkkkkkkk lmao, "this guys show good arguments, unlike you" Man.
 
i already read that, @AwkguyDB showed good arguments and context from the sub version, contrary to you, therefore i agree with him, seriously why didn't you do that?

also lol the wasn't worth his time phrase only happens in the dub, said dub you kept showing instead of the sub that would help your case, skill issue on your part tbh
bruh… so you knew the truth but you trolled me because I used dub? Ain’t no way
 
bruh… so you knew the truth but you trolled me because I used dub? Ain’t no way
that is not what i said, i simply didn't remembered what the japanese version said specifically, i currently have no reliable way to see it afterall, so since you kept using the dub i assumed that it said the same thing, after all, why else would you use the dub right?
 
that is not what i said, i simply didn't remembered what the japanese version said specifically, i currently have no reliable way to see it afterall, so since you kept using the dub i assumed that it said the same thing, after all, why else would you use the dub right?
I used the dub because I couldn’t find the sub and that Beerus comment still makes sense if you add the dialogue literally a couple seconds after it but it’s whatever
 
It seems to use scans for both the toei continuity and manga continuity, but outside of cosmology botj are completely separated, so wouldn't better to separate which scan is part of which continuity?
well not really because souls is being treated as a congruent multiversal concept in this case you would want to use all forms of continuity
 
I just disappear from this thread for a short time and what the hell you guys talking about??
One side started arguing about the ssjg to ssj1 moment in BoG, the othet side showed scans from the dub instead of the sub for some reason, the other started to argue back and forth, and then someone brought an actual good argument with the sub version of the scans and calmed the problem.....you know, the usual
 
don't even know why you brought that up anyway, obviously goku didn't get any weaker, why are we bringing up irrelevant topics?
 
Back
Top