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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

Vietthai96 said:
You can't composite, or else you must composite all DB media. Games has their own continuity and mechanic that different from Canon/Toei
Click to expand...
I just did, I made a composite effects of ki. There is no reasons why they would deviate from the abilities presented especially the basic levels manipulation. And the ziku thing was because ki can interact with it, unless this is contradicted anywhere else beyond a reasonable doubt, there is no reason for me to remove it at the current moment.
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
I just did, I made a composite effects of ki. There is no reasons why they would deviate from the abilities presented especially the basic levels manipulation. And the ziku thing was because ki can interact with it, unless this is contradicted anywhere else beyond a reasonable doubt, there is no reason for me to remove it at the current moment.
Click to expand...
You could make a Ki UES page but making a page for the games is useless because we kinda already got that besides normal ki

Also that ki blog was kinda shit… most of the links were dead
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
I just did, I made a composite effects of ki. There is no reasons why they would deviate from the abilities presented especially the basic levels manipulation. And the ziku thing was because ki can interact with it, unless this is contradicted anywhere else beyond a reasonable doubt, there is no reason for me to remove it at the current moment.
Click to expand...
What, Ziku World don't exist in Canon/Toei DB for you to even use it, just because it is Ki doesn't mean you can composite all media where each media show different feats, contexts compare to each other. The burden of proof is on you to prove that Ziku World exist in Canon/Toei DB
 
Vietthai96 said:
What, Ziku World don't exist in Canon/Toei DB for you to even use it, just because it is Ki doesn't mean you can composite all media where each media show different feats, contexts compare to each other. The burden of proof is on you to prove that Ziku World exist in Canon/Toei DB
Click to expand...
You did not answer what I presented to you above. Just because it's a different canon from the main canon, doesnt mean some of that doesnt apply to the main canon. If regular ki can interact with ziku, i dont see any problems with it applying to the main canon, unless you can provide a contradiction for this. It's up to you to prove there is a contradiction and that it can never apply to the main canon. At the limit I could remove it, and just place it as NPH. But that is understand my own choice.
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
I just did, I made a composite effects of ki. There is no reasons why they would deviate from the abilities presented especially the basic levels manipulation. And the ziku thing was because ki can interact with it, unless this is contradicted anywhere else beyond a reasonable doubt, there is no reason for me to remove it at the current moment.
Click to expand...
You could just make a separate part titled "games only" to list the game only abilities
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
You did not answer what I presented to you above. Just because it's a different canon from the main canon, doesnt mean some of that doesnt apply to the main canon. If regular ki can interact with ziku, i dont see any problems with it applying to the main canon, unless you can provide a contradiction for this. It's up to you to prove there is a contradiction and that it can never apply to the main canon. At the limit I could remove it, and just place it as NPH. But that is understand my own choice.
Click to expand...
You are the one afirming that everything of one continuity applies to all others, the burden is on you
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
You could make a Ki UES page but making a page for the games is useless because we kinda already got that besides normal ki

Also that ki blog was kinda shit… most of the links were dead
Click to expand...
I already did a page for UES. I never said nor did a page for the games in particular. The ki various effects is what you get as a regular/normal ki user depending on ur level. The dark ki , evil ki are special ki, different than regular ki. Therefore it can stack.
Thank you for your criticism, it will be considered when its required. And the links being dead isnt my fault, imgur isn't working for me.
 
omegabronic said:
You are the one afirming that everything of one continuity applies to all others, the burden is on you
Click to expand...
I never said such. Be careful with your words. I said, some things can be apply to the main canon especially when its simple basic ki. There is no burden, because its already proven that regular ki can interact with it and there is no proven contradiction that would suggest it wouldn't apply to the main canon.
 
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
I never said such. Be careful with your words. I said, some things can be apply to the main canon especially when its simple basic ki.
Click to expand...
Why would things from one continuity apply to the other?

Borutonarutodebunked said:
There is no burden, because its already proven that regular ki can interact with it
Click to expand...
The burden is to prove that this one aspect from the one separated continuity applies to the other

Borutonarutodebunked said:
and there is no proven contradiction that would suggest it wouldn't apply to the main canon.
Click to expand...
There is nothing suggesting that it would apply in the first place
 
omegabronic said:
Why would things from one continuity apply to the other?


The burden is to prove that this one aspect from the one separated continuity applies to the other


There is nothing suggesting that it would apply in the first place
Click to expand...
Why would things from one continuity apply to the other? The burden is to prove that this one aspect from the one separated continuity applies to the other. There is nothing suggesting that it would apply in the first place

We are going in circles. I already explained this above. First, is there a contradiction that would prove it wont fit or work from a canon continuity to another? Ziku world can be interacted with basic ki. Which is something universal in general db continuity possesses. Unless you can prove, that that ki, is fundamentally different than the other ki and can only work for that particular canon. Then, there is no reason to assume it wont apply, just because they are "different continuities". Especially when its just interaction.
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
Why would things from one continuity apply to the other? The burden is to prove that this one aspect from the one separated continuity applies to the other. There is nothing suggesting that it would apply in the first place

We are going in circles. I already explained this above. First, is there a contradiction that would prove it wont fit or work from a canon continuity to another?
Click to expand...
not how it works, i don't need to prove a negative, you are the one with the positive "they work the same in both continuities" therefore you are the one who needs to provide proof for such

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Ziku world can be interacted with basic ki.
Click to expand...
in the game continuity, no reason for that to be the case in the main continuity tho

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Which is something universal in general db continuity possesses.
Click to expand...
but the games have expanded far beyond what the main canon has shown

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Unless you can prove, that that ki, is fundamentally different than the other ki and can only work for that particular canon.
Click to expand...
You are the one affirming that they work the same, why would i need to prove a negative?

Borutonarutodebunked said:
Then, there is no reason to assume it wont apply, just because they are "different continuities". Especially when its just interaction.
Click to expand...
No idea what you meant in this last part
 
The thing is, Ziku World isn't exist in DB canon, thus the feat of Ki interacting with Info 2 that is the Ziku World do not exist in canon, so one need to prove that Ziku World exist in canon to even assume that Ki can interact with it, let alone saying it can interact
 
omegabronic said:
not how it works, i don't need to prove a negative, you are the one with the positive "they work the same in both continuities" therefore you are the one who needs to provide proof for such


in the game continuity, no reason for that to be the case in the main continuity tho


but the games have expanded far beyond what the main canon has shown


You are the one affirming that they work the same, why would i need to prove a negative?


No idea what you meant in this last part
Click to expand...
I'm willing to move on from this, I proven why its the case and this is going in circles.

not how it works, i don't need to prove a negative, you are the one with the positive "they work the same in both continuities" therefore you are the one who needs to provide proof for such. You are the one affirming that they work the same, why would i need to prove a negative?

There are no contradiction as to why it wouldn't work, (you have presented none so far) you are just assuming it doesn't work because of "continuities", there is no bases for this argument. They use ki just like any continuities who has ki and does a interaction feat that isn't fundamentality different than those continuities, it's the simplest interpretation. Also in a tangent you can prove negatives, you can prove you have no beds in your pocket by showing your pocket etc...

in the game continuity, no reason for that to be the case in the main continuity tho

Going in circle again. I'm asking you, if it uses the same energy system to do a interaction feat, the same energy system that is also present and the same as the other canon, why would they be fundamentality different? why wouldn't they apply? continuities argument doesn't prove it cannot apply , you need to provide a contradiction, you need to prove they are fundamentality different.

No idea what you meant in this last part

That part is to show, that your argument is based on unjustified assumption
 
Vietthai96 said:
The thing is, Ziku World isn't exist in DB canon, thus the feat of Ki interacting with Info 2 that is the Ziku World do not exist in canon, so one need to prove that Ziku World exist in canon to even assume that Ki can interact with it, let alone saying it can interact
Click to expand...
I'm willing to move on from this, it's pointlessly going in circles. But

They use the same energy system (ki) to interact with it. Its irrelevant if it does or doesn't exist in canon, as the same energy system present in both continuities can interact with it or do that feat, so it would be logical to say they can interact with such world. It's an unreasonable assumption to assume it doesn't work, just because of continuities, as even if they are, it doesn't mean some aspect of it cannot be used for the other canon. You must prove a contradiction, you must prove its so different, that it needs to be treated as an singularity, like night and day difference.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Actually, you need to prove, that Ziku World exist in DB canon, so your assumption could work. Or else it no different that you saying Ki across all fiction work the same, because they are Ki, that sematic, you make the claim, you need to prove it
Click to expand...
I already went want over this, its going in circles and you clearly do not understand what is presented to you. I'm not gonna entertain this ad nauseam, feel free to argue with yourself. As such, this discussion, is now terminated.
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
I already did a page for UES. I never said nor did a page for the games in particular. The ki various effects is what you get as a regular/normal ki user depending on ur level. The dark ki , evil ki are special ki, different than regular ki. Therefore it can stack.
Thank you for your criticism, it will be considered when its required. And the links being dead isnt my fault, imgur isn't working for me.
Click to expand...
No, you didn't bro you included the Ziku World. The Ziku World literally does not exist in the Canon/Toei Multiverse because the games are literally not canonical to the series. If Ki could reality warp in the games it would not apply to Canon/Toei multiverse it's the same logic here though you can scale things from Canon/Toei to the games but not the other way around because the games are adapted from canon/toei multiverse and there's no proof Canon/toei multiverse applies to the games and we literally don't accept that it does.
 
Mr.Cinos15 said:
Would Ascension basically be Ruby's equivalent of when Goku unlocked his potential when he drank the ultra divine water?
Click to expand...
In my crossover au, it's basically just her getting better spirt control via her no longer trying to be perfect and bottling up her emotions. Because of her doing that she basically had her ki held back by doubt and out of wack via her bottled up emotions

But after Ascension she became 10 times stronger via her true power being shown making her in my crossover au gain a power level of 1800

(note: the Maidens are stronger then prime king piccolo via Ozpin killing prime king piccolo after he gave away magic to the madiens and he grows weaker each reincarnation)
 
TheGodOfICE777 said:
No, you didn't bro you included the Ziku World. The Ziku World literally does not exist in the Canon/Toei Multiverse because the games are literally not canonical to the series. If Ki could reality warp in the games it would not apply to Canon/Toei multiverse it's the same logic here though you can scale things from Canon/Toei to the games but not the other way around because the games are adapted from canon/toei multiverse and there's no proof Canon/toei multiverse applies to the games and we literally don't accept that it does.
Click to expand...

There is a difference between ki as a universal energy system and ki various effect. One is to explain and prove how your stats increases with higher ki and the other is to explained and show what abilities those who uses ki and use depending on their level of ki and their mastery over it. Make sure to read what is presented to you correctly, because you are strawmaning what I said. Also, I already addressed the ziku stuff above. It is an ad nauseam going in circle. If you wish to discuss it, it will be without me.
 
Vietthai96 said:
Actually, you need to prove, that Ziku World exist in DB canon, so your assumption could work. Or else it no different that you saying Ki across all fiction work the same, because they are Ki, that sematic, you make the claim, you need to prove it
Click to expand...
Doesn't DBH use the same cosmology as DBS? It doesn't change anything, both have the same cosmology, for me the only differences that brought something is the one you mentioned there, I don't even know if it's DBH, I don't understand this game
 
DBS, DBZ, DBH, DBXV, everything has the same shared cosmology, just add the games to the cosmology and that's it, I don't know why so much bureaucracy, lol
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Doesn't DBH use the same cosmology as DBS? It doesn't change anything, both have the same cosmology, for me the only differences that brought something is the one you mentioned there, I don't even know if it's DBH, I don't understand this game
Click to expand...
No, while the game use DB Canon cosmology, they expanded on it with much more material, lore. You can't backscale at all
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
There is a difference between ki as a universal energy system and ki various effect. One is to explain and prove how your stats increases with higher ki and the other is to explained and show what abilities those who uses ki and use depending on their level of ki and their mastery over it. Make sure to read what is presented to you correctly, because you are strawmaning what I said. Also, I already addressed the ziku stuff above. It is an ad nauseam going in circle. If you wish to discuss it, it will be without me.
Click to expand...
The DB games exist in their own multiverse,AKA they're not canon.

These various types of Ki do not even exist in canon, which is even worse.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
The DB games exist in their own multiverse,AKA they're not canon.

These various types of Ki do not even exist in canon, which is even worse.
Click to expand...
Also no buddy, just because Ki exists everywhere it doesn't mean a feat that comes from a non canon source can be used, even if we're talking about UES. I
don't know what gave you that impression but it's wrong.

The feat MUST be applicable to the source material we're using.

Here, on VSBW, we don't consider anything from the DB games to be usable for the canon multiverse.

Sorry, but that's just how it is.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
The DB games exist in their own multiverse,AKA they're not canon.

These various types of Ki do not even exist in canon, which is even worse.
Click to expand...
What does your comment have to do with anything you where replying to? The comment you are quoting, refers to ki as a universal energy system which is to explain how ki increases your physical statistic. There is no DB game scan anywhere on that nor does it only apply to a single continuity in particular.
And ki various effects are abilities granted to those with ki. The so called "abilities" you say that aren't in "canon" is irrelevant unless contradicted otherwise. I made it clear above, I already addressed the "continuity" argument and is going in pointless circles. As such do not include me in that discussion, do not quote me nor reply to me with such.
 
Borutonarutodebunked said:
What does your comment have to do with anything you where replying to? The comment you are quoting, refers to ki as a universal energy system which is to explain how ki increases your physical statistic. There is no DB game scan anywhere on that nor does it only apply to a single continuity in particular.
And ki various effects are abilities granted to those with ki. The so called "abilities" you say that aren't in "canon" is irrelevant unless contradicted otherwise. I made it clear above, I already addressed the "continuity" argument and is going in pointless circles. As such do not include me in that discussion, do not quote me nor reply to me with such.
Click to expand...
Notice how you ignored my other comment lmao.

I already explained why Ki being a UES doesn't matter.

And your "counter" is irrelevant because the continuity argument is just how the wiki standards work.

Chaos Energy is a UES that exists in both game and Archie, but the latter's effects don't apply to the game verse. It's the same with DBH.

And this is just an example out of many.

If you don't like how this site works then simply leave. Easy. Because they're not going to change the standards as of now.
 
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