Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[TheGodOfICE777]

it is the same timeline, Black is from the unaltered main timeline, and beerus explains that gods killing other gods do not branch the timeline but change the future, that is what he said

They’re still 2 different histories Black is from a future version of the main timeline where Beerus doenst interfere

This history is Called the history where Goku lives they’re 2 different histories them not being separate timelines is debunked by toei the canon and basic logic there can only be a Zamasu per timeline nobody’s denying these histories are similar but they’re not the same history which is made clear by the toei chart

And god killing another god does branch of they have time ring when Whis explained that Beerus made a new timeline by killing Zamasu

 

[omegabronic]

They’re still 2 different histories Black is from a future version of the main timeline where Beerus doenst interfere

that only happened after beerus killed zamasu, black was still of the main timeline before that

This history is Called the history where Goku lives they’re 2 different histories them not being separate timelines is debunked by toei the canon and basic logic there can only be a Zamasu per timeline nobody’s denying these histories are similar but they’re not the same history which is made clear by the toei chart

black himself says that the main timeline zamasu is his past, and so does gowasu, it is just a time loop that got broke, nothing more, you are unnecessarily over complicating things

And god killing another god does branch of they have time ring when Whis explained that Beerus made a new timeline by killing Zamasu

you said it yourself, it was because of the time ring and nothing more, if they were no time ring black would have been erased along with his past self

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

that only happened after beerus killed zamasu, black was still of the main timeline before that


black himself says that the main timeline zamasu is his past, and so does gowasu, it is just a time loop that got broke, nothing more, you are unnecessarily over complicating things

you said it yourself, it was because of the time ring and nothing more, if they were no time ring black would have been erased along with his past self

According to the toei timeline Zamasu’s timeline is organized and split into 2 timelines and in this timeline he kills Gowasu goes to FT’s timeline etc

If he’s his past that literally means he’s from his past timeline it’s that simple future trunk’s past is “The history where Goku lives” I’m not complicating things this is how it works you’re making up head canon there isn’t multiple Zamasu’s in a timeline there’s 3 timelines Goku Black’s Timeline (Unaltered Main Timeline), Main Timeline (history where Goku lives), Future Trunks Timeline,
Unaltered main timeline and main timeline are not one timeline

Zamasu’s present self was erased and his future self aka Goku Black would’ve too if he didn’t have the time ring

 

[omegabronic]

According to the toei timeline Zamasu’s timeline is organized and split into 2 timelines and in this timeline he kills Gowasu goes to FT’s timeline etc

You have not read what i said have you?

that only happened after beerus killed zamasu, black was still of the main timeline before that

If he’s his past that literally means he’s from his past timeline it’s that simple future trunk’s past is “The history where Goku lives”

dude the chary clearly shows that it is the split from the main timeline dude

I’m not complicating things this is how it works you’re making up head canon there isn’t multiple Zamasu’s in a timeline

Stop lying about what i said, i never said that there were 2 zamasus, it is the same zamasu is differe t points in time of his life, that's it

there’s 3 timelines Goku Black’s Timeline (Unaltered Main Timeline)

Oh so you concede that black is from the main timeline then? Nice

Main Timeline (history where Goku lives), Future Trunks Timeline,
Unaltered main timeline and main timeline are not one timeline

they were, the whole reason goku went to fight zamasu, which prompted him to steal goku's body to become black, in the first place was because trunks traveled back in time and black followed, it is a simple temporal loop and not this complicated mess you are making up

Zamasu’s present self was erased and his future self aka Goku Black would’ve too if he didn’t have the time ring

Duh, that is what i said, so you concede that goku black was of the same timeline as goku and that all that beerus did was killing his past and as such killing his future, aka simply gods don't create other timelines but change the current one when they kill one another, with that not happening to black due to the time ring, a simple concise explanation that requires very little assumptions, instead of yours that is contradicted by the fact that the zamasu without the time ring is unnafected by beerus killing main timeline zamasu, which by your logic he should have been gone as well, seriously you are overcomplicating things unecessaraly

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

You have not read what i said have you?




dude the chary clearly shows that it is the split from the main timeline dude


Stop lying about what i said, i never said that there were 2 zamasus, it is the same zamasu is differe t points in time of his life, that's it


Oh so you concede that black is from the main timeline then? Nice


they were, the whole reason goku went to fight zamasu, which prompted him to steal goku's body to become black, in the first place was because trunks traveled back in time and black followed, it is a simple temporal loop and not this complicated mess you are making up


Duh, that is what i said, so you concede that goku black was of the same timeline as goku and that all that beerus did was killing his past and as such killing his future, aka simply gods don't create other timelines but change the current one when they kill one another, with that not happening to black due to the time ring, a simple concise explanation that requires very little assumptions, instead of yours that is contradicted by the fact that the zamasu without the time ring is unnafected by beerus killing main timeline zamasu, which by your logic he should have been gone as well, seriously you are overcomplicating things unecessaraly

Well the chart still says that timeline Zamasu goes into FT’s timeline so that changes nothing I said

It being split from the main timeline is what I’ve been arguing

So 2 different timelines..?

When I say main timeline I’m talking about “The History Where Goku Lives” where top happens Goku Black doesn’t exist in that timeline he comes from one similar but it’s a timeline that’s unaltered so how do I concede if this was my point this entire time?

A loop that requires multiple timelines it doesn’t mean it’s all one timeline there has to be a point of origin

Again Goku Black is not from the same history/timeline why tf do you keep saying that? He’s from another timeline an unaltered version the toei chart highlights this as well the Immortal Zamasu still had a time ring as well

ima again highlight the different timelines

Timeline Unaltered: Zamasu kills gowasu does all the stuff we already know goes to future trunks timeline

Future Trunks Timeline: He helps the Zamasu of this timeline become immortal and killgowasu

main timeline/history where Goku lives: Where Ssj2 goku and Goku Black fight Goku Black is not from this timeline

 

[omegabronic]

Well the chart still says that timeline Zamasu goes into FT’s timeline so that changes nothing I said

How does black going to trunks' timeline changes anything? This is beside the point, black was the same zamasu from the main timeline, that is all that matters for this point

It being split from the main timeline is what I’ve been arguing

Then you are conceding that it is just normal cause and effect via not spliting the timeline instead of this really complicated explanation of "he can affect all version of a character across all timelines there is"

So 2 different timelines..?

1 timeline that diverged after a certain point, black was of the same timeline until the moment beerus erased zamasu and changed the timeline

When I say main timeline I’m talking about “The History Where Goku Lives” where top happens Goku Black doesn’t exist in that timeline he comes from one similar

they were both the exact same timeline until beerus erased zamasu, black comes from the unalduterated main timeline, which is the same one as the main timeline until the "beerus erased zamasu incident" , split timelines share the same "line" until the split

but it’s a timeline that’s unaltered so how do I concede if this was my point this entire time?

Simple, you are conceding that black is from the original main timeline, aka the unaltered events of the black saga, with it only spliting because of beerus and goku interfering with zamasu's attempted murder of gowasu, making it so that black was from the same timeline as goku

A loop that requires multiple timelines it doesn’t mean it’s all one timeline there has to be a point of origin

in thia case it is via what black and gowasu said explicitly, you don't seem to understand what a time loop is, there is no origin point, there is no midle, there is no end, it is a loop

Again Goku Black is not from the same history/timeline why tf do you keep saying that?

Because he is, the timeline only splited because of his timering, if not for that he would have been gone by the paradox of having his past self killed, as explained by beerus

He’s from another timeline an unaltered version the toei chart highlights this as well the Immortal Zamasu still had a time ring as well

immortal zamasu does not have a time ring on him

ima again highlight the different timelines

Timeline Unaltered: Zamasu kills gowasu does all the stuff we already know goes to future trunks timeline

Future Trunks Timeline: He helps the Zamasu of this timeline become immortal and killgowasu

main timeline/history where Goku lives: Where Ssj2 goku and Goku Black fight Goku Black is not from this timeline

Both the first and the third have the same past, this is how timeline splits works, they are the same timeline until a certain point

Also you forgot that the whole reason another timeline was created was because of black having a time ring right? Without that the timeline would not have splited and black would be erased since his past would not exist anymore

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

How does black going to trunks' timeline changes anything? This is beside the point, black was the same zamasu from the main timeline, that is all that matters for this point


Then you are conceding that it is just normal cause and effect via not spliting the timeline instead of this really complicated explanation of "he can affect all version of a character across all timelines there is"


1 timeline that diverged after a certain point, black was of the same timeline until the moment beerus erased zamasu and changed the timeline


they were both the exact same timeline until beerus erased zamasu, black comes from the unalduterated main timeline, which is the same one as the main timeline until the "beerus erased zamasu incident" , split timelines share the same "line" until the split


Simple, you are conceding that black is from the original main timeline, aka the unaltered events of the black saga, with it only spliting because of beerus and goku interfering with zamasu's attempted murder of gowasu, making it so that black was from the same timeline as goku


in thia case it is via what black and gowasu said explicitly, you don't seem to understand what a time loop is, there is no origin point, there is no midle, there is no end, it is a loop


Because he is, the timeline only splited because of his timering, if not for that he would have been gone by the paradox of having his past self killed, as explained by beerus


immortal zamasu does not have a time ring on him


Both the first and the third have the same past, this is how timeline splits works, they are the same timeline until a certain point

Also you forgot that the whole reason another timeline was created was because of black having a time ring right? Without that the timeline would not have splited and black would be erased since his past would not exist anymore

He literally cannot be the same Zamasu they’re parallel versions of each other Present Zamasu was erased which would’ve affected that he would’ve became like Black but he didn’t because he got erased the Zamasu from “The History Where Goku Lives” is erased he’s gone they’re not the same the timeline splits at different points in time he’s from another timeline where Beerus doesn’t kill him and his plan goes through and travels to trunk’s timeline

That’s not normal Causality… if the past of one timeline doesn’t normally affect the future and for a different instance it does thats a special situation and doesn’t apply all of the time and only in the situation idk what it is but that isn’t normal cause and effect if DB timelines didnt work like it did then I’d agree that it’s normal Causality

So you concede on that point? If it’s a diverging timeline it’s still a timeline that’s how timelines work in DB and we accept it as such

Then they’re not the same timeline… in the timeline where Black is from he wasn’t originally killed by Beerus but in the past timeline Beerus killing him present Zamasu would’ve affected him as his future counterpart but he was saved by the time ring

I’m not conceding that was what I was saying the entire time Future Trunks timeline and the history where Goku lives also split at a certain point Goku Black and this timeline split at a certain point as well just much later but that makes them 2 different diverging timelines

A loop can have Everything you just said

So you agree that they’re from 2 timelines? It’s not a paradox it’s just how it works when a god alters history normally that doesn’t happen and causes a branching timeline

Ik

Exactly they’re still 2 different timelines you keep saying they’re 1 timeline when they’re 2 timeline 2 and 1 also have the same past but again they’re 2 different timelines do you see my point now? All 3 are different timelines but they split at different points in time making them branching timelines you’ve been arguing oh it’s just 1 timeline that’s wrong

If you’re referring to the timeline Whis mentioned then yeah ur right about that and I never denied that

 

[omegabronic]

He literally cannot be the same Zamasu they’re parallel versions of each other Present Zamasu was erased which would’ve affected that he would’ve became like Black but he didn’t because he got erased

which again only happened because of the time ring, he was the same zamasu until his past self got erased and made a split in the timeline

the Zamasu from “The History Where Goku Lives” is erased he’s gone they’re not the same the timeline splits at different points in time he’s from another timeline where Beerus doesn’t kill him and his plan goes through and travels to trunk’s timeline

do you know how timeline splits work? They stilk share the same past, again, you are ingnoring the fact that the only reason black was not affected by the erasure of his past self was because of the time ring, they were the same and black would have been gone have been not for the time ring protecting him

That’s not normal Causality… if the past of one timeline doesn’t normally affect the future

it was all 1 timeline before the split, so moot point

and for a different instance it does thats a special situation and doesn’t apply all of the time and only in the situation

dude side note but please organize your replies? I can barely understand the gramat of this sentence or what it is refering to

idk what it is but that isn’t normal cause and effect if DB timelines didnt work like it did then I’d agree that it’s normal Causality

once again you are forgeting that beerus explained that this is not the case when a god kills another, they don't make split timelines, so yeah, it is just normal cause and effect

So you concede on that point? If it’s a diverging timeline it’s still a timeline that’s how timelines work in DB and we accept it as such

Concede on what? Black is of the same timeline as goku until the moment the timeline splited via his past self getting killed, which would normaly make him disapear since that is how it works for gods in db as explained by beerus, seriously it is very convenient for you to ignore a statement you brought up when it doesn't contribute to your narrative

Then they’re not the same timeline… in the timeline where Black is from he wasn’t originally killed by Beerus

Again ignoring beerus' explanation, yes it was of the same timeline, beerus would have made black disapear via having his past self killed since this is how gods work, the only reason they are of different timelines is because of the time ring protecting him from changes in his past

but in the past timeline Beerus killing him present Zamasu would’ve affected him as his future counterpart but he was saved by the time ring

Oh so you concede that it is normal cause and effect then? His past self affecting his future self, okay then good

I’m not conceding that was what I was saying the entire time Future Trunks timeline and the history where Goku lives also split at a certain point Goku Black and this timeline split at a certain point as well just much later but that makes them 2 different diverging timelines

Yeah, at a certain point, they are the same timeline before the said point tho, in fact, the only reason they split is because black had the ring that stoped his past self frol affecting him

A loop can have Everything you just said

Nope, a loop doesn't have a begining since the "end" makes the begining happen

So you agree that they’re from 2 timelines? It’s not a paradox it’s just how it works when a god alters history normally that doesn’t happen and causes a branching timeline

It is the oposite, when a god kills another god the timeline doesn't split but changes its future

Exactly they’re still 2 different timelines you keep saying they’re 1 timeline when they’re 2 timeline 2 and 1 also have the same past but again they’re 2 different timelines do you see my point now? All 3 are different timelines but they split at different points in time making them branching timelines you’ve been arguing oh it’s just 1 timeline that’s wrong

I have been arguing that they WERE the same timeline, not that they still are, black is from the unaltered timeline, only reason the timeline split qas because black was wearing the time ring, not for that he would have died

If you’re referring to the timeline Whis mentioned then yeah ur right about that and I never denied that

Good then

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

which again only happened because of the time ring, he was the same zamasu until his past self got erased and made a split in the timeline


do you know how timeline splits work? They stilk share the same past, again, you are ingnoring the fact that the only reason black was not affected by the erasure of his past self was because of the time ring, they were the same and black would have been gone have been not for the time ring protecting him


it was all 1 timeline before the split, so moot point


dude side note but please organize your replies? I can barely understand the gramat of this sentence or what it is refering to


once again you are forgeting that beerus explained that this is not the case when a god kills another, they don't make split timelines, so yeah, it is just normal cause and effect


Concede on what? Black is of the same timeline as goku until the moment the timeline splited via his past self getting killed, which would normaly make him disapear since that is how it works for gods in db as explained by beerus, seriously it is very convenient for you to ignore a statement you brought up when it doesn't contribute to your narrative


Again ignoring beerus' explanation, yes it was of the same timeline, beerus would have made black disapear via having his past self killed since this is how gods work, the only reason they are of different timelines is because of the time ring protecting him from changes in his past


Oh so you concede that it is normal cause and effect then? His past self affecting his future self, okay then good


Yeah, at a certain point, they are the same timeline before the said point tho, in fact, the only reason they split is because black had the ring that stoped his past self frol affecting him


Nope, a loop doesn't have a begining since the "end" makes the begining happen


It is the oposite, when a god kills another god the timeline doesn't split but changes its future


I have been arguing that they WERE the same timeline, not that they still are, black is from the unaltered timeline, only reason the timeline split qas because black was wearing the time ring, not for that he would have died


Good then

Since we finally understood each other on discord im not gonna reply to allat

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Discord? gross!

Also I like how the discussion went from "is Whis a good teacher or not?" to "the potency/range of the Hakai" to "the logistics of time travel and cosmology" in the span of just a few hours.

 

[AwkguyDB]

Discord? gross!

Also I like how the discussion went from "is Whis a good teacher or not?" to "the potency/range of the Hakai" to "the logistics of time travel and cosmology" in the span of just a few hours.

DB fans be like...What if Goku was locked in a hyperbolic time chamber with Vados and Caulifa

 

[CraigTucker]

Has the Tier 1 Dragon ball super came to conclusion?

 

[CraigTucker]

DB fans be like...What if Goku was locked in a hyperbolic time chamber with Vados and Caulifa

What if vegeta and goku fused to become ultra vegito and spend in the hyperboloc time chamber with GT Gogeta

 

[Quantu]

Has the Tier 1 Dragon ball super came to conclusion?

Yes, years ago

 

[CraigTucker]

Yes, years ago

No their was new arguments based of the cosmology upgrade

 

[omegabronic]

Discord? gross!

Also I like how the discussion went from "is Whis a good teacher or not?" to "the potency/range of the Hakai" to "the logistics of time travel and cosmology" in the span of just a few hours.

Db fans do be like that lol

 

[CraigTucker]

Db fans do be like that lol

DB FANS ARE TOXIC

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

DB fans be like...What if Goku was locked in a hyperbolic time chamber with Vados and Caulifa

I've lost count the number of times I've seen fanart (usually posted by DBZtubers) of Goku cheating on Chichi with the most common one being Chichi getting Hakai'ed by Beerus and then Goku remarrying with Vados.

Also remember when peeps first thought Caulifa was "female Broly?".

 

[CraigTucker]

I've lost count the number of times I've seen fanart (usually posted by DBZtubers) of Goku cheating on Chichi with the most common one being Chichi getting Hakai'ed by Beerus and then Goku remarrying with Vados.

Also remember when peeps first thought Caulifa was "female Broly?".

What if vegeta and goku fused to become ultra vegito and spend in the hyperboloc time chamber with GT Gogeta??

 

[Fezzih_007]

ngl, but a Dragon Ball Harem series sounds amusing.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

ngl, but a Dragon Ball Harem series sounds amusing.

 

[CraigTucker]

ngl, but a Dragon Ball Harem series sounds amusing.

What about the ultra ego series?

 

[Fezzih_007]

What about the ultra ego series?

I don't have words to describe peak fiction, unfortunelly.

 

[Fezzih_007]

ngl, but a Dragon Ball Harem series sounds amusing.

Altrought, considering that Akira Toriyama can't write a romance well, i don't know if he could do a Harem.

 

[Huesito88]

Altrought, considering that Akira Toriyama can't write a romance well, i don't know if he could do a Harem.

Lol I can't even imagine a DB Harem series not even in my wildest dreams

 

[CraigTucker]

What if we make a page for Ultra Vegito?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

beerus never says anything about that being an hakai thing, just a god killing another god thing

He said a god “destroying” another god.

 

[Fezzih_007]

What if we make a page for Ultra Vegito?

Tier 0: Vegito is a fusion for Goku and Vegeta, so he should be boundless like Goku, that is boundless via statement

 

[omegabronic]

He said a god “destroying” another god.

Yeah, destroy can be used synonimum of killing

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Yeah, destroy can be used synonimum of killing

Synonimum=/= the actual definition. He’s directly saying this in correlation to him destroying(hakai) Zamasu.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Let’s go over the facts.
Timelines aren’t connected, changes to one TL may effect the present but does not change the already existing timeline.
Trunks (DBZ), Trunks (DBS) and Beerus all confirm that narrative.
Beerus destroying Zamasu was said to erase him from the timelines as well, creating a seperate TL where he isn’t killed.

This should be some sort of causality or space time manipulation.

 

[omegabronic]

Let’s go over the facts.
Timelines aren’t connected

yes they are, all timelines made by a plit due to time travel are conected with the same past and history up until the point of the split

, changes to one TL may effect the present but does not change the already existing timeline.
Trunks (DBZ), Trunks (DBS) and Beerus all confirm that narrative.
Beerus destroying Zamasu was said to erase him from the timelines as well, creating a seperate TL where he isn’t killed.

this only happened because of the time ring protecting black, beerus was confident that he killing zamasu would not create another timeline but just change the current one and make black cease to exist

 

[Fezzih_007]

I feel like You two are just going back at each other ar this point, can you guys post scans to prove your point?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

this only happened because of the time ring protecting black, beerus was confident that he killing zamasu would not create another timeline but just change the current one and make black cease to exist

This isn’t stated at all, both Trunks and Beerus confirm through normal means it wouldn’t change the future but he would himself. This isn’t debatable.

 

[omegabronic]

This isn’t stated at all, both Trunks and Beerus confirm through normal means it wouldn’t change the future but he would himself. This isn’t debatable.

Trunks says that when he went back into rhe past his future didn't change, beerus then says that this is only in mortal logic and that when a god kills another space time is sure to be affected, in context it is clearly meaning that it would not create another timeline but change the current one, also black was not of a different timeline until beerus erased zamasu, since that is what made the timeline split in the first place, the entire purpose of erasing zamasu was to make his future self disapear, that much is said by black himself

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

This isn’t stated at all, both Trunks and Beerus confirm through normal means it wouldn’t change the future but he would himself. This isn’t debatable.

Just make the CRT, debate here generate arguments in infinite loop, that's what's happening here.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

I’m wondering now do we take the Future Trunks statement In the daizenshuu as a boast? Even though it’s a guide or do we say it was done with AP

 

[omegabronic]

I’m wondering now do we take the Future Trunks statement In the daizenshuu as a boast? Even though it’s a guide or do we say it was done with AP

What are you refering to?

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

What are you refering to?

In the 2nd daizenshuu Mecha Frieza was reduced to atoms I was wondering if people consider a guidebook statement a boast or just done by AP

 

[omegabronic]

In the 2nd daizenshuu Mecha Frieza was reduced to atoms I was wondering if people consider a guidebook statement a boast or just done by AP

It is Ap on this site