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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

  • My point wasn't that it was a crossover, just that it would also count due to being officially licensed and accepted.
  • Same here.
  • And was it all confirmed by Akira Toriyama? If it was, there are two possible outcomes, DoTA or Outlier. If it wasn't, then what is it even?
  • Okay and?
 
Listentomyrhytm said:
  • My point wasn't that it was a crossover, just that it would also count due to being officially licensed and accepted.
  • Same here.
  • And was it all confirmed by Akira Toriyama? If it was, there are two possible outcomes, DoTA or Outlier. If it wasn't, then what is it even?
  • Okay and?
Click to expand...
- Do not point it being a crossover, this as nothing to do with a crossover as I just explain debunking your statement.
-Ok
-TOEI ANIMATION, BIRD STUDIO, FUN ANIMATION, SHUEISHA, AND BIRD STUDIOS IS TORIYAMA'S OFFICIAL COMPANY. LITERALLY MEANING THIS IS OFFICIAL AND USABLE GUIDE BOOK.
-IT MATTERS BECAUSE THE LORES AND DESCRIPTIONS ARE ONLY FOR THE CHARACTERS ETC.. AND THE REST IS GAMEPLAY MECHANICS.
 
Warren_Valion said:
How the **** did I cause. . . this?
Click to expand...
People have Opinions and want other people to know them.

That being said, yeah, I'm not exactly feeling this argument as a hill to die on. I just want Goku to punch out a creature that is legitimately far above where anyone would ever expect Dragon Ball to go to and see how people feel about that.

High 1-A Dragon Ball via authors accidentally stumbling into it would be the best thing ever.
 
- And? I just mentioned crossover because otherwise people would say "but one piece is not part of DB"

  • Yeah and? Unless he confirmed it as actual actual lore, it could be just made up for the tabletop game. Hell, Akira tends to come with stuff up during various interviews and other stuff, and even if it is his official company, that does not automatically mean he himself did it. Also why are you getting agressive? We are having a civilized talk over here, be civilized.
  • It really doesn't matter if it is specifically Saiyan Saga. I get that "the lores are only for the characters" but it being only Saiyan saga does not really matter.
 
Listentomyrhytm said:
- And? I just mentioned crossover because otherwise people would say "but one piece is not part of DB"

  • Yeah and? Unless he confirmed it as actual actual lore, it could be just made up for the tabletop game. Hell, Akira tends to come with stuff up during various interviews and other stuff, and even if it is his official company, that does not automatically mean he himself did it. Also why are you getting agressive? We are having a civilized talk over here, be civilized.
  • It really doesn't matter if it is specifically Saiyan Saga. I get that "the lores are only for the characters" but it being only Saiyan saga does not really matter.
Click to expand...
DO NOT MENTION SOMETHING THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR CLAIM.

- PLZ GO READ IT, GO VERIFY THE ANIME AND ACTUALLY PROVIDE EVIDENCE INSTEAD OF TALKING FROM PROBABILITIES.
-IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU THINK IT WASN'T MADE BY TORIYAMA, ITS LICENCED BY BIRD STUDIOS AND IT'S TORIYAMA'S COMPANY
-NO IT MATTERS, OBVIOUSLY. IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU THINK IT ISN'T.
 
  • It does have to do wiith my claim, because One Piece would scale to your 1-A DB logic. As I said, my point is that this 'crossover'(which does not matter if it is a crossover or not) would count given it is oficially licensed by bird studios. Hell, there was also a crossover drawn by both Toriyama and Bird Studios, and not to mention, the TCG would also count, literally every merchandise would count given it was by Toei and Bird Studios. Which we know it's a contradiction.
  • It does matter, because otherwise it's unrelated to the actual thing, since Toriyama is the one who wrote the story for the Saiyan Saga. It does not matter that it is the company, it only matters that it's the man himself.
  • Then explain why it matters that it is specifically the Saiyan Saga, because from what I see, it would be the same if it was from the Namek Saga or the Cell Saga.
 
Listentomyrhytm said:
  • It does have to do wiith my claim, because One Piece would scale to your 1-A DB logic. As I said, my point is that this 'crossover'(which does not matter if it is a crossover or not) would count given it is oficially licensed by bird studios. Hell, there was also a crossover drawn by both Toriyama and Bird Studios, and not to mention, the TCG would also count, literally every merchandise would count given it was by Toei and Bird Studios. Which we know it's a contradiction.
  • It does matter, because otherwise it's unrelated to the actual thing, since Toriyama is the one who wrote the story for the Saiyan Saga. It does not matter that it is the company, it only matters that it's the man himself.
  • Then explain why it matters that it is specifically the Saiyan Saga, because from what I see, it would be the same if it was from the Namek Saga or the Cell Saga.
Click to expand...
-IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT YOU SAY OR ANY LOGIC, CROSSOVER AS NOTHING TO DO WITH OFFICIAL GUIDES THAT AUTHORIZED TO BE USED FOR CHARACTER DESCRIPTION FOR THE SERIE IT'S TALKING ABOUT. IT HAS NOTHING TO WITH THIS, YOU REALISE HOW IRRELEVANT YOUR CLAIMS? THIS IS A GUIDE BOOK TALKING ABOUT CHARACTERS FROM DBZ ANIME.
-IT MATTERS IT'S WHAT YOU THINK THAT DOESN'T MATTER, IF IT'S OFFICIAL APPROVED I CAN USE NO MATTER WHAT YOU CAN THINK YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER. IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE DIRECTLY MADE BY TORIYAMA. BY YOUR LOGIC DAIZENSHUU AND ALL GUIDES SHOULD BE IGNORED ANYTHING THAT TORIYAMA DIDN'T MAKE BY HIMSELF, THEREFOR NO ANIME NO NOTHING SINCE IT WAS'T DIRECTLY AND ONLY MADE BY TORIYAMA.
-I ALREADY TOLD YOU, PLZ READ IT, I SAID THIS GUIDE BOOK IS ONLY ABOUT SAIYAN SAGA LORE AND HAS NOTHING TO WITH THE GAME LORE, MEANING THEY SHOULDN'T BE CONFUSED TO BE ONE ENTITY. TCG AS NOTHING TO DO WITH, YOU FAILED TO GIVE THE CONTEXT OF THOSE TCG, YOU FAILED TO REALISE, MARCHANSIDE=/=GUIDE BOOKS.
 
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First of all, chill for ***** sake, there is no need to get agressive, makes it harder to read what you write.

  • Yes, it is a guide book. But other things that were indeed approved by Bird Studios and Toei also have Character Bios that are plain wrong, like the scouter in Buu's Fury indicating Mr Satan's power level being lower than a kid's when he is the strongest martial artist. My claims are not irrelevant, my claim is that even if it is official, it does not make it 'canon'. At best you could argue a separate version of Goku based on the tabletop game, but not directly scale it to the already existing Goku profiles.
  • "If it's official approved I can use no matter what" then like I said, crossovers can also be used, and yes, Daizenshuu is it's separate thing in cases of movies due to it being written not directly by Toriyama, sometimes he comes and approves and even says outright that some of the things in the daizenshuus are true, and what other guides? Please refer to some of the 'others'
  • Dude, it still does not matter, given that Gameplay Mechanics aren't even being brought up, we are talking about actual stuff, like power levels.
 
Listentomyrhytm said:
First of all, chill for ***** sake, there is no need to get agressive, makes it harder to read what you write.

  • Yes, it is a guide book. But other things that were indeed approved by Bird Studios and Toei also have Character Bios that are plain wrong, like the scouter in Buu's Fury indicating Mr Satan's power level being lower than a kid's when he is the strongest martial artist. My claims are not irrelevant, my claim is that even if it is official, it does not make it 'canon'. At best you could argue a separate version of Goku based on the tabletop game, but not directly scale it to the already existing Goku profiles.
  • "If it's official approved I can use no matter what" then like I said, crossovers can also be used, and yes, Daizenshuu is it's separate thing in cases of movies due to it being written not directly by Toriyama, sometimes he comes and approves and even says outright that some of the things in the daizenshuus are true, and what other guides? Please refer to some of the 'others'
  • Dude, it still does not matter, given that Gameplay Mechanics aren't even being brought up, we are talking about actual stuff, like power levels.
Click to expand...
- PLZ I WILL ASK YOU THIS ONCE MORE, CAN YOU PROVE THAT IT IS WRONG ?, GIVE ME SCANS OF WHY IT IS, IDC ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK, GIVE THE EVIDENCE OR CONCED. COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT, HOW DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH COSMOLOGY OR MY ORIGINAL PREMISE WHEN TALKING ABOUT THOSE GUIDES? HOW CAN YOU NOT READ THIS? AND YES YOUR CLAIMS ARE IRRELEVANT. AND YES IT'S CANON, PLZ GO RESEARCH WHAT CANON MEANS, OFFICIALLY AND APPROVED WORK.

-HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF, CROSSOVERS=/=GUIDE BOOKS, CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? IT DOESN'T MATTER, DAIZENSHUU WAS MADE BY TORIYAMA'S STAFFS, I DO NOT HAVE TO REFER TO ANYTHING, STAY ON TOPIC THIS IS THE ONLY GUIDE MENTION YET, THIS IS THEN THAT IS MAIN FOCUS.

-IT MATTERS IT'S WHAT YOU THINK THAT DOESN'T MATTER, I BROUGHT THAT UP SO THAT PEOPLE WHO CANNOT UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENT OF GAMEPLAY MECHANICS AND THE ACTUAL RELEVANT PARTS OF THAT GUIDE BOOK CAN KNOW MORE ABOUT WHAT I SAY BY LORE AND SO ON.
 
Last edited:
Listentomyrhytm said:
Came here to say that by the "And who cares it's a DnD game, it's still 'official'" argument, One Piece should also be 1-A from scaling. Due to 'official' crossovers.
Click to expand...
...Which change absolutly nothing to the fact it's still better evidence than some 1-A or even tier 0 on this wiki.

And that calling it 'headcanon' is a laughable point.
 
Ionliosite said:
And until you meantion which those are, your argument as valid as Vegetto Blue being Building level.
Click to expand...
There's was like 3 different thread where we talked about that and exemple were given, IIRC you were even on one of them, opening your mouth and going 'W-w-w-w-we'll make thread to downgrade them too!!' like a little dog after Cal called you to DMs again and yet, I have seen no thread, no downgrade, nothing. Hell didn't you also open your mouth like that in the 'scailing resistance' thread? Still waiting for downgrads on the profiles I linked there.

Stop trying to cope with your shitty ass double standards. This is why this wiki is laughed at.
 
00potato said:
A discussion about whether official=canon.
Mi Hermano just likes big words.
Click to expand...
That's not what the discussion is about at all, the discussion is about how the standards are unevenly applied, how some verse are at a crazy rating with flimsy (or non-existent) justification and how calling something official 'a headcanon' is dumb thing to do. You can say it's not canon but official info can't be dismissed as headcanon, especialy given some of the 'evidence' that are sometime accepted here (remember how EGD passed years with his whole profile being basicaly like 'source : Trust me.'?)
 
Kakarot was officially licensed and stated to introduce new elements to the Dragon Ball lore.
Guess that means Piccolo destroying the moon was a illusion, and that Mira and Towa are canonical.
Debunk me.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Kakarot was officially licensed and stated to introduce new elements to the Dragon Ball lore.
Guess that means Piccolo destroying the moon was a illusion, and that Mira and Towa are canonical.
Debunk me.
Click to expand...
Completely irrelevant, does this guide book talking about lore, characters descriptions, and places from that saga contradict the source material? (it being the main dbz series), if it doesn't then it's official to be used. YOU HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED. You are arguing from ignorance and you have been debunked countless times already.
 
Last edited:
Nullflowerblush said:
Kakarot was officially licensed and stated to introduce new elements to the Dragon Ball lore.
Guess that means Piccolo destroying the moon was a illusion, and that Mira and Towa are canonical.
Debunk me.
Click to expand...
Said new lore was written by Toriyama so it's probably indeed canon. I'm pretty sure you won't find anyone who is aware of the new 'animal people' lore and why we don't see them much anymore in Kakarot and think it's not canon.

The moon thing was a mistranslation, Vegeta still can't find the moon during the saiyan saga.

Toriyama is the one who made Mira and Towa for DBO, which has been accepted as semi canon for decades in term of lore, he was even on record about how much he like them.

Boom. Debunked.

And once again, This isn't about canon or not, this is about official stuff being called 'headcanon' being ridiculous.
 
Dragomer said:
The moon thing was a mistranslation, Vegeta still can't find the moon during the saiyan saga.
Click to expand...
That wasn't a mistranslation, unless you can fetch the original Japanese, translate it yourself and prove the team of professional translators are incompetent.
As for Vegeta not being able to find it: Easy. The illusion Piccolo created persisted. Prove magic illusions disperse after death.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
Kakarot was officially licensed and stated to introduce new elements to the Dragon Ball lore.
Guess that means Piccolo destroying the moon was a illusion, and that Mira and Towa are canonical.
Debunk me.
Click to expand...
2-A Battle of Gods? Okay, sure.

And I guess Piccolo can now make illusions so convincing that it stops biological processes like transformations that last months. Sweet, a new hax Dragon Ball can use.

In all seriousness, though, it's really awkward trying to argue this for the DBZ RPG when as far as I can tell, most of it is just daizenshuu information. Might as well just use that instead.
 
Also also, I'd like to point out that the wiki considers the Dragon Ball databooks to be secondary canon and only uses information from it to support arguments based out of the original story, rather than to create arguments with databook-only information.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
That wasn't a mistranslation, unless you can fetch the original Japanese, translate it yourself and prove the team of professional translators are incompetent.
As for Vegeta not being able to find it: Easy. The illusion Piccolo created persisted. Prove magic illusions disperse after death.
Click to expand...
Multiple native japanese on reddit and translators on Kazenshuu already did so. Nice try but you fail.

'Easy' Lol, it's so easy you just shot yourself in the foot. Okay, now Piccolo is still moon level but also can throw illusions that stay forever. You know you're supposed to be downplaying, right?
 
Nullflowerblush said:
What question what I dodging? Did I miss something amidst your ***** session?
Click to expand...
LISTEN TO ME, I ASKED YOU MULTIPLEs time in previous threads questions that you didn't answer and you didn't answer others in this thread as well (if you did you would automatically concede that your point were wrong).

"does this guide book talking about lore, characters descriptions, and places from that saga contradict the source material? (it being the main dbz series), if it doesn't then it's official to be used"

1) in the guide book (dbz rpg), did the description, lore, area other than pure gameplay mechanics related information contradict the source material of dbz during the Saiyan saga at that time?. If not my argument is still completely valid. And yours in this specific context is irrelevant.
 
elhermanopadre said:
LISTEN TO ME, I ASKED YOU MULTIPLEs time in previous threads questions that you didn't answer and you didn't answer others in this thread as well (if you did you would automatically concede that your point were wrong).

"does this guide book talking about lore, characters descriptions, and places from that saga contradict the source material? (it being the main dbz series), if it doesn't then it's official to be used"

1) in the guide book (dbz rpg), did the description, lore, area other than pure gameplay mechanics related information contradict the source material of dbz during the Saiyan saga at that time?. If not my argument is still completely valid. And yours in this specific context is irrelevant.
Click to expand...
I could try and do a rundown of all the information in the infobook that contradicts the source material, if you want.
 
Nullflowerblush said:
I could try and do a rundown of all the information in the infobook that contradicts the source material, if you want.
Click to expand...
-GO AHEAD, I will debunk it as normal.

-The gameplay stats, mechanics are irrelevant of the source material being dbz anime during the saiyan saga.
But first, answer the other questions that I asked you to answer and provide the scan for the claims you have made.
 
Ionliosite said:
Exactly, that shows Toei knows that if they're going to make extra money out of Dragon Ball, a franchise that makes them money without even making new material, they'll rather just squeeze it much more with a long anime than just pull out seasonal ones for a quick buck.
Click to expand...
Is this the reason why we didn't get an anime in nearly 3 years? Doing an anime is very time and money consuming.
Anyone would make this" Oh it brings money so why don't they make it everyday" by that logic why didn't' show keep the show going for 18 years?
Most Of DB's money comes from merch and games that people pay shitton of money to get their fav character on Gacha
The anime itself isn't groundbreaking in terms of sales as far as I am aware.

New anime gave them the push needed which still going strong without having to bother to kill themselves with a weekly show.

Either way who knows what really happened and why it took so long and yet to comeback.
Pandemic isn't helping much.
 
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