Weren't Goku and Gohan going to do a school interview with Chi Chi?Bro that's not the problem
The problem is that in the days leading up to the Cell Games, Goku and Gohan were always naturally in their Super Saiyan forms, yet in the movie they're in base form
Yes.
it's less contradictory than first cooler movie and that's accepted
Cooler's considered canon because there's no contradictions, one of the Daizenshuu implies he's apart of the Timeline, AND he LITERALLY APPEARS in GT. Wrath of the Dragon is considered canon solely because Goku uses Dragon Fist, which debuted from that film, and because GT Trunks has Tapion's Sword, also, yes, because of lack of contradictions. However, Deadzone and Fusion Reborn do not fit this mould, and those are the films I explicitly referenced for this rule, so bringing up Cooler and Hirudegarn is completely irrelevant.
Which is THE POINT I'M MAKING. We do it INHERENTLY for the other two, so there is NO REASON why we shouldn't for the rest that are indirectly made canon via Fusion Reborn.
That's a valid but separate matter from the point. Questioning whether the Perfect Files adequately do enough to make Fusion Reborn Canon in itself is totally fine and I think it's worth bringing up in a new CRT, but is totally separate from the actual point in hand: As it currently stands, the logic that allows Dead Zone and Fusion Reborn ignore their contradictions also applies to the other Z-Films.
Just change the example, for example Piccolo interacting with souls in the Toei Anime. There’s a plethora of different ones in the DB games Ki album that belong to the toeiverse you can find some good examples.
trunks is there when he should be back to his future
......that one cannot fit ANYWHERE in the timeline, what do you mean "no contradictions"?
yeah.......so since the Guide isn't contradicting the anime, as in, the movie has no contradictions, we accept it as cannon
.....yeah.......so because it has no contradictions and explains stuff.........why say the same i said?
..........what? no, you said it was a "rule of thumb" when no such a thing is possible, else all movies would be cannon by default, Fusion Reborn or not, the very fact that if the 2 movies mentioned had contradictions they wouldn't have been accepted is proof enough that such rule you spoke of doesn't exist
"iherently"? no, for Garlic Jr it is a very, VERY specific case where the main cannon material, the anime, makes him appear with a saga for himself, thus making him need to be cannon by default regardless of the problems his movie has
no, Dead Zone has a VERY specific reason for why it has to be cannon, if you saw the problems with Fusion Reborn being cannon, your first instinct should be correcting it instead of trying to apply the wrong logic to all other movies imo
Literally what I'm describing. The inherent disregard of the contradictions due to what must happen. I feel like you're not actually taking in what I'm saying.
The Perfect Files act as the Daizenshuu for GT, one, TWO, this runs into the issues of applying a double standard. Garlic Jr gets to disregard his contradictions due to what we're shown/told. We are "told" (as that statement is iffy) that Fusion Reborn is canon, ergo, the contradictions, like Dead Zone, do not matter. You either reject Dead Zone, or you allow the others the same standards. It's literally that simple.
Interested to see how it goes.
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oh no, i get what you are saying........i am just saying that this doesn't apply to Fusion Reborn, or any of the other movies, at all
i mean, that's cool but it doesn't change my point really, still secondary to the main material itself
no because what "tells" us that Garlic Jr happen is the main cannon material itself, which is main cannon and holds the utmost importance in deciding what is cannon to itself or not as it is the base material, perfect files on the other hand, is secondary material, which needs to conform to the main cannon's sets, not the opposite, if it contradicts the main cannon, then we don't use it as it is secondary to said main cannon, now if the main cannon said "fusion reborn happened" then we would need to conform to it as a retcon since the main cannon has as much priority as itself because......it is itself
thank you for the support, not joking with what i will say next btw, would you mind if i gave you credits for the inspiration to the thread?
and i just explained why, by nature, it isn't a double standard, a guide does not have more cannonicity than the main material it is covering, if said material contradicts the guide, then we ignore it
it having no contradictions was OF UTMOST IMPORTANCE for them being accepted as cannon, if Hirudegarn, for example, had egregious contradictions like, say, Three of Might, then it wouldn't have ever been accepted as cannon to begin with
It literally does.
What helps validate Cooler is literally a few frames and an actual guide.
This argument is circular and self-defeating.
There absolutely is. It being from a guide (which also is the most primary piece of evidence for Cooler) does not make it less important when the whole point of the discussion is being canon allows you to ignore the contradictions (ala Dead Zone).
Sure.
By this standard, Bojack Unbound should also be canon. As should the original LSSJ Broly film. There’s no contradictions. The reason why it’s not accepted as canon is because there are no pointers of canoncity. The contradictions, or lack thereof, literally do not matter. And yes, he would have, because Tapion’s Sword appears in GT, as does the Ryuken, things that originate from that film, necessarily meaning that they are canon. Again: Contradictions aren’t the issue, the “absoluteness of canon” (as BitestDust puts it) IS. (As in, things that prove what does/MUST happen regardless of the inconsistencies that do or do not exist.)
Kiai taking effect against Gojo
I don't think so, let's say Janemba got beaten by Ssj3, but Janemba forced Goku to go to Ssj3
Goku stating that Fat Janemba's ki is the strongest ki he has ever felt puts him above Buu,
