Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100

[Nullflowerblush]

that him suppressed was twice as strong as Third Form Frieza

Every transformation multiplies Frieza's strength by many-fold

How is that an unreasonable "assumption"?

• Transforming was a strenuous effort, and when he finally did, his Ki exploded, which never occurred before.
• His Ki was "incredibly huge", even when compared to his Third Form.
• He completely blitzed Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta, whereas before, Piccolo could narrowly dodge a Death Beam and co. could spectate.
• He "gently" deflected Vegeta's greatest attack without effort, despite Vegeta supposedly growing powerful enough to battle his Third Form.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Could the narrowed Final Flash destroying a far-out celestial body be calculated in any capacity?
I know it's a pipe dream, but I'd like to be able to apply that—an extension of this panel from the original series—towards the scaling chain.
Y'know, so Frieza's calculation has a friend.

 

[Ednaxel2]

How is that an unreasonable "assumption"?

• Transforming was a strenuous effort, and when he finally did, his Ki exploded, which never occurred before.
• His Ki was "incredibly huge", even when compared to his Third Form.
• He completely blitzed Piccolo, Gohan, Krillin, and Vegeta, whereas before, Piccolo could narrowly dodge a Death Beam and co. could spectate.
• He "gently" deflected Vegeta's greatest attack without effort, despite Vegeta supposedly growing powerful enough to battle his Third Form.

I didn't mean it as an "unreasonable assumption" that it was impossible, any multiplier can fit in the context just fine whether it be 2x or even a billion, I just didn't think we should take a statement about overall form multiplier and apply that to the context of a character's suppressed power in their next form. Though with these instances would could say the jump from Third Form to suppressed Final Form was larger than any previous power up Frieza had based on how it's touted and presented

Could the narrowed Final Flash destroying a far-out celestial body be calculated in any capacity?
I know it's a pipe dream, but I'd like to be able to apply that—an extension of this panel from the original series—towards the scaling chain.
Y'know, so Frieza's calculation has a friend.

You can, you can say each pixel is larger than the whole structure of the celestial body since it is just THAT small in the distance and calc the explosion size based off that.
But the issue is "what kind of a celestial body is it"? since it can range from asteroids/comets to even stars/nebulas/galaxies

 

[Damage3245]

Thinking I might merge my Frieza and Cell upgrades into a single thread since they both affect the scaling chain majorly.
Could throw in the Tien and Ultra Divine Water Goku stuff as well.

I wouldn't include two or three different equally important topics in a thread. Could complicate the discussion for it.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Thinking I might merge my Frieza and Cell upgrades into a single thread since they both affect the scaling chain majorly.
Could throw in the Tien and Ultra Divine Water Goku stuff as well.

A thread that isn't cosmology based? What are the odds

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You can, you can say each pixel is larger than the whole structure of the celestial body since it is just THAT small in the distance and calc the explosion size based off that.

I was thinking inverse square law, like the Cell calculation.

But the issue is "what kind of a celestial body is it"? since it can range from asteroids/comets to even stars/nebulas/galaxies

Guess we could calculate all of them and choose the most reasonable end?

 

[Ednaxel2]

I was thinking inverse square law, like the Cell calculation.

I'm not sure how to do something like that but it could work

Guess we could calculate all of them and choose the most reasonable end?

Yea sure

 

[Spinoirr]

 

[Ednaxel2]

I haven't seen this yet, is it good?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Goku too easy would be difficult for Ichigo to handle Goku who is 2-C and has resistance to soul destruction.

 

[pineappleman]

I'm working on launching a series of Summer of Toei upgrades. Stay tuned.

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Real talk I've had a question in mind and sb already mentioned it b4 me if magically the 5D smurf Hax gets accepted would that change Jiren's tier for breaking time cage with his strength?
And would it affect the higher tiers in db?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Real talk I've had a question in mind and sb already mentioned it b4 me if magically the 5D smurf Hax gets accepted would that change Jiren's tier for breaking time cage with his strength?
And would it affect the higher tiers in db?

They would have resistance to 5D time stop

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Let's go only 1 left for this to be over, where are the administrators?

 

[CelestialVortex01]

Let's go only 1 left for this to be over, where are the administrators?

I really hope option 2 gets accepted

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I really hope option 2 gets accepted

Me too

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I'm not sure how to do something like that but it could work

I don't even know if I'm using this formula correctly, but I plugged in the distance to the next planet over, Mars, (i.e., the beam length) divided by half for the "explosion radius", and got about 4.38229305e+42 joules, but I'm 99% certain that's 100% wrong. And, also, like lower than what Super Vegeta currently scales to so...

 

[Ednaxel2]

And, also, like lower than what Super Vegeta currently scales to so...

What did that guide statement say again? I recall there being one about this

 

[Nullflowerblush]

What did that guide statement say again? I recall there being one about this

I can't say I'm familiar, honestly.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I wouldn't include two or three different equally important topics in a thread. Could complicate the discussion for it.

Probably'll do five back-to-back threads, then.

First, Frieza—the easiest. Then, Cell. Next, arguing for a 2x multiplier for Four Witches Techniques for Tien. Finally, Post-Ultra Divine Water Goku being 10x stronger than before. Then, depending on which threads are accepted, I can wrap it all up with a scaling chain adjustment.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Post-Ultra Divine Water Goku being 10x stronger than before

Dang that would downgrade Toei Goku since his previous keys downscale from Post-Divine Water, but if it's the truth then let it speak

 

[Ednaxel2]

I think most of you guys remember this, but in the Buu Saga after Goku went SS3, his power was stated to've reach the Kaioshin Realm

Would this be a speed feat of any kind? Like an MFTL+ attack speed feat or a MFTL+ aura expansion type feat etc etc? And would it also give him 3-A range?

 

[Damage3245]

It wasn't an attack, so it wouldn't be listed as attack speed.

 

[Gamin_Yoon23]

I think most of you guys remember this, but in the Buu Saga after Goku went SS3, his power was stated to've reach the Kaioshin Realm

Would this be a speed feat of any kind? Like an MFTL+ attack speed feat or a MFTL+ aura expansion type feat etc etc? And would it also give him 3-A range?

It's been a while so I'd probably need to see the video of this happening. Could you maybe post it here if possible?

 

[Ednaxel2]

It wasn't an attack, so it wouldn't be listed as attack speed.

attack speed, aura speed, whatever I just think it'd matter somewhat even if it ain't useful in verses situations most of the times

 

[RedReaper616]

I mean, ehhhh…How Ki Sensory is relative to speed is inconsistent. Like how in Namek Saga they could sense the Ginyu’s moving in their interstellar speed/traveling attack pods, but not in combat. Implying speed is tied to energy sensing to some degree. Same with flight. Or Gohan being able to see the Saibamen in combat via harnessing that sense. However, in RoF Gohan’s Ki Expanded to signal Goku to teleport and it had nothing to do with any actual speed at all. Same with Goku going to sense Vegeta for training in DBS to Beerus planet. Though maybe it could be Instant Transmission weirdness.

 

[Ednaxel2]

It's been a while so I'd probably need to see the video of this happening. Could you maybe post it here if possible?

Heres a thread on it

SSJ3 Goku 4-B/4-A Justification Change

I read on SSJ3 Goku's profile that his 4-A rating is currently explained with: Comparable to Anime Kid Buu, who gradually obliterated entire galaxies) I believe this should be replaced with his own 4-A feat that he has, which would be cited before scaling. The Feat After Goku transforms...

vsbattles.com

Edit: Not saying I agree with what this thread proposes, just that the feat is best explained here

 

[Ednaxel2]

I mean, ehhhh…How Ki Sensory is relative to speed is inconsistent. Like how in Namek Saga they could sense the Ginyu’s moving in their interstellar speed/traveling attack pods, but not in combat. Implying speed is tied to energy sensing to some degree. Same with flight. Or Gohan being able to see the Saibamen in combat via harnessing that sense. However, in RoF Gohan’s Ki Expanded to signal Goku to teleport and it had nothing to do with any actual speed at all. Same with Goku going to sense Vegeta for training in DBS to Beerus planet.

It's not about them noticing Goku's power from another planet, it's about how Gokus power is able to reach the kaioshin realm from Earth

 

[RedReaper616]

It's not about them noticing Goku's power from another planet, it's about how Gokus power is able to reach the kaioshin realm from Earth

I didn’t realize that it was actual force and not just them sending his Ki from far away.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It wasn't an attack, so it wouldn't be listed as attack speed.

Do you agree with speed?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It's not about them noticing Goku's power from another planet, it's about how Gokus power is able to reach the kaioshin realm from Earth

Do a calculation, this was supposed to be used for the manga, right?

 

[Ednaxel2]

I didn’t realize that it was actual force and not just them sending his Ki from far away.

yeah but I'm not sure what to make of it

In the thread I linked above there's a distinction between power and ki, meaning this is not a ki expansion feat but more so an explosion like feat, where Goku's "explosion" or giant force generated after becoming a Super Saiyan 3 was able to travel to and reach the Kaioshin Realm. I'm not saying this is AP worthy for measurements since it didn't affect anything in that distance, but it is a speed feat since this is a force Goku generates that is THAT fast

 

[Ednaxel2]

Do a calculation, this was supposed to be used for the manga, right?

Yes this is both an anime and manga feat. I did a calculation for this feat that get it to a pretty high rating:

Goku's power reaches the Kaiōshin Realm

vsbattles.fandom.com

A calc member even checked it and said it was fine, but I think DBZ needs more calc staff checks for it to be excepted, good thing it's easy to do

 

[Omegabronic]

I think most of you guys remember this, but in the Buu Saga after Goku went SS3, his power was stated to've reach the Kaioshin Realm

Would this be a speed feat of any kind? Like an MFTL+ attack speed feat or a MFTL+ aura expansion type feat etc etc? And would it also give him 3-A range?

Made a calc for it a while ago

DBZ, SSJ3 Ki Expansion

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Damage3245]

Do you agree with speed?

I just said it wouldn't be listed as speed.

When Goku does his Ki sense thing to lock onto random aliens that he's met before, it's not a speed feat by them that their Ki could reach Goku across interstellar distances to be sensed.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I just said it wouldn't be listed as speed.

When Goku does his Ki sense thing to lock onto random aliens that he's met before, it's not a speed feat by them that their Ki could reach Goku across interstellar distances to be sensed.

Hmm

 

[Ednaxel2]

I just said it wouldn't be listed as speed.

When Goku does his Ki sense thing to lock onto random aliens that he's met before, it's not a speed feat by them that their Ki could reach Goku across interstellar distances to be sensed.

This is more so that Goku can sense ki at such a far range, nothing about the ki of others being that large

Kibito's statement is about how SS3 Goku's power is able to reach the Kaioushin not that they can sense it from the Kaioushin Realm

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Yes this is both an anime and manga feat. I did a calculation for this feat that get it to a pretty high rating:

Goku's power reaches the Kaiōshin Realm

vsbattles.fandom.com

A calc member even checked it and said it was fine, but I think DBZ needs more calc staff checks for it to be excepted, good thing it's easy to do

How much more do you need for the calculation?

 

[Ednaxel2]

How much more do you need for the calculation?

I think two more

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I think two more

Like this