- 15,950
- 12,360
Fair enough. I never read far into the Buu saga, just making sure.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,855
- 8,718
Good Buu admitted "I can't beat 'im", and beyond chapter 318, Kid Buu was beating Good Buu so severely without contest that, for the first time ever, he had been losing energy.
- 31,588
- 28,049
Did I claim that Good Buu could beat Kid Buu?
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,855
- 8,718
Vegeta is nowhere near Super Buu.
Again, Kid Buu was beating Good Buu so severely that the latter couldn't fight back and had begun exhausting, despite his immortality*.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,522
- 3,998
Goku did cut Buutenks in half
- 31,588
- 28,049
Isn't that supporting my point?
Yeah, that's a weakness we note on Majin Buu's profile.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,855
- 8,718
Evidently, absorbing the South Supreme Kai made Kid Buu stronger [Buff Buu]. Only after gaining the Grand Supreme Kai's heart did he began suppressing his power.
- 12,473
- 4,484
Iirc the El manga legendario also says that Kid Buu is the moat dangerous, altho also weaker
- 6,938
- 7,316
- 5,285
- 3,424
- 2,725
- 3,218
This reminds me of the new Future Saga cutscene post Beerus fight. That instinctive Goku and Vegeta fist bump right before Vegeta realizes what he just did and pulls away is just peak.
- 3,514
- 5,234
Wow, if this translation is legit. I genuine see why people argue Kid Buu being the strongest Buu in the manga.also
- 2,725
- 3,218
It’s mostly due to anime statements, really. The Anime repeatedly states Kid Buu > Buuhan.
- 5,285
- 3,424
The interesting thing is that I don't think there was ever another translation for Goku's speech that Boo was getting greater ki (after losing his absorptions) like Kaioshin's speech about that.
On the most famous websites like [CENSORED] or my language, these were the same translations.
I even found a translation website from 5400 days ago (more than 10 years) and even with terrible scan and translation editing quality,
I find it impressive how Kid Boo being one of the weakest Boos has become like common sense, with the oldest and most famous translations talking about this thing about absorption losing power, as well as the anime being more explicit (since a lot of people grew up and saw DB for the first time in anime)
I think there can still be a debate about whether Kid Boo is above Buhan or not. Since the statement that he is getting bigger or stronger ki could be referring to his superboo form and not buhaan, and his absorptions making him weaker could just be the absorptions of the kaioshins. In addition to possible extra materials.
But that's for a crt.
- 6,938
- 7,316
Buuhan and Kid Buu fans should all gather in a parking lot and beat the crap out of each other until one person remains and that person has exclusive rights to decide who is the stronger between them
- 2,721
- 3,520
He couldn't take kid buu thoGoku literally says they can take Kid Buu now when he finishes. It was merely a momentary energy surge as Buu’s body morphs. Also, Buu’s energy signature is notably confusing/misleading, making you believe he is stronger or weaker than he actually is at a given moment.
- 13,023
- 2,721
We should do this with Hit's time skip too
- 3,514
- 5,234
Yeah, I just was not aware that it was stated Kid Buu got weaker from gaining his absorptions due to gaining a good nature. But him getting the power that he lost back when he loses them and it does match up with what DB media says. Anime statements, Beat in heroes, and XV.
I was moreso just stating that I understand why people argue this.
Yeah, it feels like my worldview on how I viewed Buu in the manga for years changed within a couple hours. I genuinely did not know these statements about Buu existed. I always assumed people were attempting to wank whenever I heard people argue that Kid Buu was the strongest.
- 12,473
- 4,484
we don't know if the supreme kai meant absorption as in singular or plural, we definitely know that simply absorbing good people does not inherently weaken him
- 6,603
- 6,698
Ah I see the usual "Strongest Buu Version" debate is going on.
My take: Buuhan>Butenks>Buucollo>Super Buu>Kid Buu>=Evil Buu>Fat Buu>Pure Buu.
The ONLY thing supporting Kid Buu being the strongest is the somewhat vague statement by Shin and Elder Kai which we already argue over because it can be interpreted in multiple ways. Taking this factor of the statement into account and combining it with the fact that ALL OTHER EVIDENCE in the arc suggests otherwise, literally every single scaling chain in the entire Buu Saga going against Kid Buu being the strongest one, and what the scaling actually would suggest, it's presumable that Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu but likely weaker than Super Buu, even if not, he is definitely not as strong as the Super Buu Z Fighter forms.
Furthermore, let's please consider what exactly Kid Buu, Super Buu, Evil Buu, and Fat/Pure Buu even are.
Buu starts out as Kid Buu, then as he absorbs Kai's, he becomes more powerful, and it was never suggested he had gotten any weaker from this. But when he absorbs the Grand Supreme Kai, the pureness of Grand Supreme Kai effects Buu on an emotional level while turning him into Fat Buu, who still has some of his former evil but also has kindness and innocence in him, which weakened Buu overall as Shin states. In the Buu Saga, after suffering a great loss, Fat Buu gets extremely emotional and angry, and expels his remaining evilness that existed formerly, in Evil Buu, who then defeats Pure Buu and absorbs him, becoming Super Buu. As explained, Kid Buu was only weakened because Grand Supreme Kai's kindness combatted his evilness, which is why Evil Buu is stronger than Pure Buu. But Super Buu lacks that kindness, only possessing both the strength of his evilness as well as the power that Pure Buu had without the drawbacks. Kid Buu would've gained power and probably grown to Super Buu level if not for the kindness nerf.
This is consistent with the scaling chain that we see in the arc. SSJ3 Goku and Pure Buu are on a similar level with each other though Goku is a bit stronger, and then when both of them fight Kid Buu their performance is on par with that, Goku being equal to Kid Buu if not slightly stronger at his absolute maximum power, Pure Buu being strong enough to at least stall Kid Buu and give him some trouble but overall being considerably weaker. Then Super Buu is on a whole other level above Goku and in turn Pure Buu, which again lines up with Super Buu>Evil Buu>Pure Buu<Kid Buu.
Really it's not that complicated to me. Kid Buu being called the strongest can only be interpreted as him being stronger than Super Buu and his Z Fighter absorptions if you take it in a context that is unlikely to be the intended context when analyzing the rest of it. You need to cherry pick that and ignore everything else for it to even be an argument. Shin is likely not even talking about the Super Buu variants in the first place as Super Buu was a deviation of sorts created by accident due to Hercule's bond with Fat Buu.
My take: Buuhan>Butenks>Buucollo>Super Buu>Kid Buu>=Evil Buu>Fat Buu>Pure Buu.
The ONLY thing supporting Kid Buu being the strongest is the somewhat vague statement by Shin and Elder Kai which we already argue over because it can be interpreted in multiple ways. Taking this factor of the statement into account and combining it with the fact that ALL OTHER EVIDENCE in the arc suggests otherwise, literally every single scaling chain in the entire Buu Saga going against Kid Buu being the strongest one, and what the scaling actually would suggest, it's presumable that Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu but likely weaker than Super Buu, even if not, he is definitely not as strong as the Super Buu Z Fighter forms.
Furthermore, let's please consider what exactly Kid Buu, Super Buu, Evil Buu, and Fat/Pure Buu even are.
Buu starts out as Kid Buu, then as he absorbs Kai's, he becomes more powerful, and it was never suggested he had gotten any weaker from this. But when he absorbs the Grand Supreme Kai, the pureness of Grand Supreme Kai effects Buu on an emotional level while turning him into Fat Buu, who still has some of his former evil but also has kindness and innocence in him, which weakened Buu overall as Shin states. In the Buu Saga, after suffering a great loss, Fat Buu gets extremely emotional and angry, and expels his remaining evilness that existed formerly, in Evil Buu, who then defeats Pure Buu and absorbs him, becoming Super Buu. As explained, Kid Buu was only weakened because Grand Supreme Kai's kindness combatted his evilness, which is why Evil Buu is stronger than Pure Buu. But Super Buu lacks that kindness, only possessing both the strength of his evilness as well as the power that Pure Buu had without the drawbacks. Kid Buu would've gained power and probably grown to Super Buu level if not for the kindness nerf.
This is consistent with the scaling chain that we see in the arc. SSJ3 Goku and Pure Buu are on a similar level with each other though Goku is a bit stronger, and then when both of them fight Kid Buu their performance is on par with that, Goku being equal to Kid Buu if not slightly stronger at his absolute maximum power, Pure Buu being strong enough to at least stall Kid Buu and give him some trouble but overall being considerably weaker. Then Super Buu is on a whole other level above Goku and in turn Pure Buu, which again lines up with Super Buu>Evil Buu>Pure Buu<Kid Buu.
Really it's not that complicated to me. Kid Buu being called the strongest can only be interpreted as him being stronger than Super Buu and his Z Fighter absorptions if you take it in a context that is unlikely to be the intended context when analyzing the rest of it. You need to cherry pick that and ignore everything else for it to even be an argument. Shin is likely not even talking about the Super Buu variants in the first place as Super Buu was a deviation of sorts created by accident due to Hercule's bond with Fat Buu.
- 1,680
- 1,312
Only because of the drain of ssj3 which he didn't know would be so severe tbh, even Vegeta assumed he was just holding back so that he could have a turn
- 12,254
- 6,206
Revenge Death Ball Return
I'm bringing back Baby's ability, which was removed due to a translation error, but the correct translation is here. "≪(ベビー)ハハハ…｡ とどめだ｡ 悟空｡お前を分子… いや 原子の一個一個までばらばらにして 宇宙の ちりに戻してやる｡もう二度と復活できないようにな｡" Tradução Official translation available here on our official translation website Quote...
- 2,725
- 3,218
I think it’s neat that XV2 has introduced a Spirit Bomb Punch. Also, after one Spirit Bomb misfire, Goku immediately adapted to Zamasu’s body enough to use it the next shot.
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,855
- 8,718
"Latent Potential", "Awakened Form", and "Inner Nature Unleashed".
- 2,744
- 2,061
where's this from?
"Latent Potential", "Awakened Form", and "Inner Nature Unleashed".
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,855
- 8,718
The English release of Volume 20 included it at the end.
- 12,254
- 6,206
They should have, but maybe there is on the ki manipulation blog.
- 2,721
- 3,520
No, even goku said they shoud have fused
- 31,588
- 28,049
Because he can't get to full power with Super Saiyan 3.
- 12,473
- 4,484
how do we know that this is an aspect of all Ki barriers and not an specific ability from Vegetto?
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,855
- 8,718
Not to mention, in the original series, the only characters to use Energy Barriers are Android 17, Perfect Cell, and Vegito—all of which are expressly noted as unique cases in the Daizenshuu.
- 2,725
- 3,218
It should also be noted that Perfect Cell’s barrier is explicitly 17’s Barrier but keyed up to his own level.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,089
- 1,836
You mean in dbz right
- 16,711
- 12,616
Same Manga series.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,089
- 1,836
Yeah I mean dies he mean in dbz manga or the entire manga series including super
- 3,448
- 2,221
Could someone please implement the changes made in this thread?
Apologies but I might not have time to update the profiles. And use the updated blog to know what tiers are which and what reasoning has changed
vsbattles.fandom.com
Apologies but I might not have time to update the profiles. And use the updated blog to know what tiers are which and what reasoning has changed
Updated Dragon Ball AP Ratings
vsbattles.fandom.com
Fezzih_007
He/Him- 7,782
- 2,896
Well, logically (as much this applies in this situation) by putting a Ki Barrier the Vegetto as able to not be complety affected by Buu powers of absorption by protecting his body.
Ki barrier Is a ability that everyone can use, what's make Vegetto Ki barrier special, but others doesn't exactly?
