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Fair enough. I never read far into the Buu saga, just making sure.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
Nullflowerblush
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Good Buu admitted "I can't beat 'im", and beyond chapter 318, Kid Buu was beating Good Buu so severely without contest that, for the first time ever, he had been losing energy.
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Did I claim that Good Buu could beat Kid Buu?
Nullflowerblush
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Vegeta is nowhere near Super Buu.
Again, Kid Buu was beating Good Buu so severely that the latter couldn't fight back and had begun exhausting, despite his immortality*.
Eden_Warlock99
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Goku did cut Buutenks in half
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Isn't that supporting my point?
Yeah, that's a weakness we note on Majin Buu's profile.
Nullflowerblush
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Evidently, absorbing the South Supreme Kai made Kid Buu stronger [Buff Buu]. Only after gaining the Grand Supreme Kai's heart did he began suppressing his power.
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Iirc the El manga legendario also says that Kid Buu is the moat dangerous, altho also weaker
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This reminds me of the new Future Saga cutscene post Beerus fight. That instinctive Goku and Vegeta fist bump right before Vegeta realizes what he just did and pulls away is just peak.
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Wow, if this translation is legit. I genuine see why people argue Kid Buu being the strongest Buu in the manga.also
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It’s mostly due to anime statements, really. The Anime repeatedly states Kid Buu > Buuhan.
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The interesting thing is that I don't think there was ever another translation for Goku's speech that Boo was getting greater ki (after losing his absorptions) like Kaioshin's speech about that.
On the most famous websites like [CENSORED] or my language, these were the same translations.
I even found a translation website from 5400 days ago (more than 10 years) and even with terrible scan and translation editing quality,
I find it impressive how Kid Boo being one of the weakest Boos has become like common sense, with the oldest and most famous translations talking about this thing about absorption losing power, as well as the anime being more explicit (since a lot of people grew up and saw DB for the first time in anime)
I think there can still be a debate about whether Kid Boo is above Buhan or not. Since the statement that he is getting bigger or stronger ki could be referring to his superboo form and not buhaan, and his absorptions making him weaker could just be the absorptions of the kaioshins. In addition to possible extra materials.
But that's for a crt.
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Buuhan and Kid Buu fans should all gather in a parking lot and beat the crap out of each other until one person remains and that person has exclusive rights to decide who is the stronger between them
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He couldn't take kid buu thoGoku literally says they can take Kid Buu now when he finishes. It was merely a momentary energy surge as Buu’s body morphs. Also, Buu’s energy signature is notably confusing/misleading, making you believe he is stronger or weaker than he actually is at a given moment.
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We should do this with Hit's time skip too
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Yeah, I just was not aware that it was stated Kid Buu got weaker from gaining his absorptions due to gaining a good nature. But him getting the power that he lost back when he loses them and it does match up with what DB media says. Anime statements, Beat in heroes, and XV.
I was moreso just stating that I understand why people argue this.
Yeah, it feels like my worldview on how I viewed Buu in the manga for years changed within a couple hours. I genuinely did not know these statements about Buu existed. I always assumed people were attempting to wank whenever I heard people argue that Kid Buu was the strongest.
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we don't know if the supreme kai meant absorption as in singular or plural, we definitely know that simply absorbing good people does not inherently weaken him
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Ah I see the usual "Strongest Buu Version" debate is going on.
My take: Buuhan>Butenks>Buucollo>Super Buu>Kid Buu>=Evil Buu>Fat Buu>Pure Buu.
The ONLY thing supporting Kid Buu being the strongest is the somewhat vague statement by Shin and Elder Kai which we already argue over because it can be interpreted in multiple ways. Taking this factor of the statement into account and combining it with the fact that ALL OTHER EVIDENCE in the arc suggests otherwise, literally every single scaling chain in the entire Buu Saga going against Kid Buu being the strongest one, and what the scaling actually would suggest, it's presumable that Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu but likely weaker than Super Buu, even if not, he is definitely not as strong as the Super Buu Z Fighter forms.
Furthermore, let's please consider what exactly Kid Buu, Super Buu, Evil Buu, and Fat/Pure Buu even are.
Buu starts out as Kid Buu, then as he absorbs Kai's, he becomes more powerful, and it was never suggested he had gotten any weaker from this. But when he absorbs the Grand Supreme Kai, the pureness of Grand Supreme Kai effects Buu on an emotional level while turning him into Fat Buu, who still has some of his former evil but also has kindness and innocence in him, which weakened Buu overall as Shin states. In the Buu Saga, after suffering a great loss, Fat Buu gets extremely emotional and angry, and expels his remaining evilness that existed formerly, in Evil Buu, who then defeats Pure Buu and absorbs him, becoming Super Buu. As explained, Kid Buu was only weakened because Grand Supreme Kai's kindness combatted his evilness, which is why Evil Buu is stronger than Pure Buu. But Super Buu lacks that kindness, only possessing both the strength of his evilness as well as the power that Pure Buu had without the drawbacks. Kid Buu would've gained power and probably grown to Super Buu level if not for the kindness nerf.
This is consistent with the scaling chain that we see in the arc. SSJ3 Goku and Pure Buu are on a similar level with each other though Goku is a bit stronger, and then when both of them fight Kid Buu their performance is on par with that, Goku being equal to Kid Buu if not slightly stronger at his absolute maximum power, Pure Buu being strong enough to at least stall Kid Buu and give him some trouble but overall being considerably weaker. Then Super Buu is on a whole other level above Goku and in turn Pure Buu, which again lines up with Super Buu>Evil Buu>Pure Buu<Kid Buu.
Really it's not that complicated to me. Kid Buu being called the strongest can only be interpreted as him being stronger than Super Buu and his Z Fighter absorptions if you take it in a context that is unlikely to be the intended context when analyzing the rest of it. You need to cherry pick that and ignore everything else for it to even be an argument. Shin is likely not even talking about the Super Buu variants in the first place as Super Buu was a deviation of sorts created by accident due to Hercule's bond with Fat Buu.
My take: Buuhan>Butenks>Buucollo>Super Buu>Kid Buu>=Evil Buu>Fat Buu>Pure Buu.
The ONLY thing supporting Kid Buu being the strongest is the somewhat vague statement by Shin and Elder Kai which we already argue over because it can be interpreted in multiple ways. Taking this factor of the statement into account and combining it with the fact that ALL OTHER EVIDENCE in the arc suggests otherwise, literally every single scaling chain in the entire Buu Saga going against Kid Buu being the strongest one, and what the scaling actually would suggest, it's presumable that Kid Buu is stronger than Fat Buu but likely weaker than Super Buu, even if not, he is definitely not as strong as the Super Buu Z Fighter forms.
Furthermore, let's please consider what exactly Kid Buu, Super Buu, Evil Buu, and Fat/Pure Buu even are.
Buu starts out as Kid Buu, then as he absorbs Kai's, he becomes more powerful, and it was never suggested he had gotten any weaker from this. But when he absorbs the Grand Supreme Kai, the pureness of Grand Supreme Kai effects Buu on an emotional level while turning him into Fat Buu, who still has some of his former evil but also has kindness and innocence in him, which weakened Buu overall as Shin states. In the Buu Saga, after suffering a great loss, Fat Buu gets extremely emotional and angry, and expels his remaining evilness that existed formerly, in Evil Buu, who then defeats Pure Buu and absorbs him, becoming Super Buu. As explained, Kid Buu was only weakened because Grand Supreme Kai's kindness combatted his evilness, which is why Evil Buu is stronger than Pure Buu. But Super Buu lacks that kindness, only possessing both the strength of his evilness as well as the power that Pure Buu had without the drawbacks. Kid Buu would've gained power and probably grown to Super Buu level if not for the kindness nerf.
This is consistent with the scaling chain that we see in the arc. SSJ3 Goku and Pure Buu are on a similar level with each other though Goku is a bit stronger, and then when both of them fight Kid Buu their performance is on par with that, Goku being equal to Kid Buu if not slightly stronger at his absolute maximum power, Pure Buu being strong enough to at least stall Kid Buu and give him some trouble but overall being considerably weaker. Then Super Buu is on a whole other level above Goku and in turn Pure Buu, which again lines up with Super Buu>Evil Buu>Pure Buu<Kid Buu.
Really it's not that complicated to me. Kid Buu being called the strongest can only be interpreted as him being stronger than Super Buu and his Z Fighter absorptions if you take it in a context that is unlikely to be the intended context when analyzing the rest of it. You need to cherry pick that and ignore everything else for it to even be an argument. Shin is likely not even talking about the Super Buu variants in the first place as Super Buu was a deviation of sorts created by accident due to Hercule's bond with Fat Buu.
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Only because of the drain of ssj3 which he didn't know would be so severe tbh, even Vegeta assumed he was just holding back so that he could have a turn
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Revenge Death Ball Return
I'm bringing back Baby's ability, which was removed due to a translation error, but the correct translation is here. "≪(ベビー)ハハハ…｡ とどめだ｡ 悟空｡お前を分子… いや 原子の一個一個までばらばらにして 宇宙の ちりに戻してやる｡もう二度と復活できないようにな｡" Tradução Official translation available here on our official translation website Quote...
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I think it’s neat that XV2 has introduced a Spirit Bomb Punch. Also, after one Spirit Bomb misfire, Goku immediately adapted to Zamasu’s body enough to use it the next shot.
Nullflowerblush
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"Latent Potential", "Awakened Form", and "Inner Nature Unleashed".
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where's this from?
"Latent Potential", "Awakened Form", and "Inner Nature Unleashed".
Nullflowerblush
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The English release of Volume 20 included it at the end.
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They should have, but maybe there is on the ki manipulation blog.
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No, even goku said they shoud have fused
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Because he can't get to full power with Super Saiyan 3.
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how do we know that this is an aspect of all Ki barriers and not an specific ability from Vegetto?
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 9,799
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Not to mention, in the original series, the only characters to use Energy Barriers are Android 17, Perfect Cell, and Vegito—all of which are expressly noted as unique cases in the Daizenshuu.
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It should also be noted that Perfect Cell’s barrier is explicitly 17’s Barrier but keyed up to his own level.
Killerdrone123
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You mean in dbz right
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Same Manga series.
Killerdrone123
He/Him- 2,055
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Yeah I mean dies he mean in dbz manga or the entire manga series including super
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Could someone please implement the changes made in this thread?
Apologies but I might not have time to update the profiles. And use the updated blog to know what tiers are which and what reasoning has changed
vsbattles.fandom.com
Apologies but I might not have time to update the profiles. And use the updated blog to know what tiers are which and what reasoning has changed
Updated Dragon Ball AP Ratings
vsbattles.fandom.com
Fezzih_007
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Well, logically (as much this applies in this situation) by putting a Ki Barrier the Vegetto as able to not be complety affected by Buu powers of absorption by protecting his body.
Ki barrier Is a ability that everyone can use, what's make Vegetto Ki barrier special, but others doesn't exactly?
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