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Yeah it's gonna be another power-up transformation. Nothing more, probably. I think they're focusing a bit too much on UI. Goku should just learn other combat abilities to utilize in UI and fix his stamina issues imo.
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Dragon Ball Super Discussion Thread 100
- Thread starter Warren_Valion
- Start date
ZetaMarishi
He/Him- 616
- 318
I'm gonna have to agree with Dragomer on this. Sure, the laser is significantly weaker than Goku even still, hence the point of lowering his guard, but saying it's just a standard laser when he's, like, one of the bosses of the Freeza Force is a bit weird to me.
Also, the answer to Goku's UI being a technique or a transformation seems to have finally been answered with a resounding: "Yes"
Also, the answer to Goku's UI being a technique or a transformation seems to have finally been answered with a resounding: "Yes"
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Well that kind of stinks IMO, I always been believing that Goku's form of UI is a transformation rather then being his base like the angels made his usage of the technique interesting even if it was treated as flawed so by making it another part of his base or whatever it kinda devalues what I like about Goku's UI
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Iirc, Frieza literally said it was standard issue in the Frieza Force, and I never said it's, like, ******* bullet level, nor do I see how Star Wars is relevant when I was clearly referring to the standards of Dragon Ball. I'm saying it's more like low tier Namek Saga levels of power, maybe even Raditz level when taking official power levels into account. It's moon level at the very, very least, yes, but none of that is relevant to my point at all.
Also, Sorbet being one of the "bosses" of the Frieza Force isn't particularly relevant when he's more of someone important to planning than a powerful soldier like Tagoma. Nothing implies Sorbet himself is even above average level. Maybe you could argue his specific laser gun is stronger than the average Frieza Soldier ones, seeing as he's a commander that Frieza would arm with better equipment, but even then, that's just headcanon.
Also, Sorbet being one of the "bosses" of the Frieza Force isn't particularly relevant when he's more of someone important to planning than a powerful soldier like Tagoma. Nothing implies Sorbet himself is even above average level. Maybe you could argue his specific laser gun is stronger than the average Frieza Soldier ones, seeing as he's a commander that Frieza would arm with better equipment, but even then, that's just headcanon.
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No, it won't even be a transformation anymore, it just won't be a thing. You'll just have 'Goku's base power is now just UI' and he'll just use his forms on top of it while fighting the same way he always has, effectively making UI nothing.
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I'm pretty sure there's a difference between being in the "instinct" state and using the full power of UI:
You can be in this state without using it to the max. This is essentially what Whis is going to teach Goku in order to conserve stamina without him needing to tap into UI by using a transformation. It was also stated that the silver haired form would be used as his trump card, which is basically him going full throttle to the max.
You can be in this state without using it to the max. This is essentially what Whis is going to teach Goku in order to conserve stamina without him needing to tap into UI by using a transformation. It was also stated that the silver haired form would be used as his trump card, which is basically him going full throttle to the max.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,433
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Too bad, look like DB cosmology revision get head shot
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Tbh that was never gonna get passed IMO, with how far controversial DB can get on here with even simple additions going as far as to try to put it at Low 1-C is like a death sentence
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,433
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I'm really disappointed of how DB get too special care like that, many verse got upgraded very easy
ZetaMarishi
He/Him- 616
- 318
For anyone who decides to read this, the reason people have that persecution complex is that Dragon Ball seems to be held to a far higher standard than a lot of other series. You may have your own vision for the series, but each time that something is found for Dragon Ball that could be used to plausibly update it, site standards randomly seem to change, or suddenly it doesn't seem to mean anything anymore, almost randomly. There is a reason there is a meme that Dragon Ball can change the site standards.
And with the most recent thing where Ultima said something on Discord? The one that he took back the second it meant something? Of course people are going to bite the bait if you dangle it in front of them. That's what you're supposed to do on this site. If new evidence, or a new way of thinking about things gets brought up, you're supposed to argue it, it's ostensibly a debating site and to be told off for doing so, as has happened during that thread, doesn't feel good at all, so that engenders irritation as well with the fandom.
At times, arguments against it end up looking more like 'my headcanon is superior to yours and I'm of a higher position than all of you so it doesn't get through'. I'm not going to say that it happened for the most recent upgrade attempt, but it has happened before.
And yes, I get where you're coming from as well, I get that you don't want some runaway scaling nightmare with one of the biggest verses on the site that would set precedent for other things and I get that you don't want to be looked at like even more of a laughingstock with how this and certain other verses may be treated, and I get being tired of arguing the point due to how many times it was brought up (though admittedly this take was brand new, relatively speaking, though apparently from false pretenses), but I'm sorry, you're probably never going to stop how people feel during decisions like this. It's just the fact of the matter. The only way you'll probably stop this is deleting the verse from the site considering at this point, Dragon Ball is basically politics on this site.
You can complain about it, but unfortunately that's not going to change things at the end of the day.
I won't say anything more on this subject unprompted, because no one really cares about my opinion on this thing, but this is what I have seen throughout my admittedly short time here.
And with the most recent thing where Ultima said something on Discord? The one that he took back the second it meant something? Of course people are going to bite the bait if you dangle it in front of them. That's what you're supposed to do on this site. If new evidence, or a new way of thinking about things gets brought up, you're supposed to argue it, it's ostensibly a debating site and to be told off for doing so, as has happened during that thread, doesn't feel good at all, so that engenders irritation as well with the fandom.
At times, arguments against it end up looking more like 'my headcanon is superior to yours and I'm of a higher position than all of you so it doesn't get through'. I'm not going to say that it happened for the most recent upgrade attempt, but it has happened before.
And yes, I get where you're coming from as well, I get that you don't want some runaway scaling nightmare with one of the biggest verses on the site that would set precedent for other things and I get that you don't want to be looked at like even more of a laughingstock with how this and certain other verses may be treated, and I get being tired of arguing the point due to how many times it was brought up (though admittedly this take was brand new, relatively speaking, though apparently from false pretenses), but I'm sorry, you're probably never going to stop how people feel during decisions like this. It's just the fact of the matter. The only way you'll probably stop this is deleting the verse from the site considering at this point, Dragon Ball is basically politics on this site.
You can complain about it, but unfortunately that's not going to change things at the end of the day.
I won't say anything more on this subject unprompted, because no one really cares about my opinion on this thing, but this is what I have seen throughout my admittedly short time here.
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Honestly? That thread showed me exactly why I don't even bother anymore with this site. Literally being ridiculed, shot down without giving any thought. **** that.
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This is definitely "my headcanon is superior to yours" Its always like that here like Zeta said
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There's a lot I wanna say and ask when it comes to this site and Dragon Ball some are legit questions that probably aren't gonna get answer others just aren't nice things to say.
From the changing of standards and powers to the difference in speed,tone, and accepting of upgrades and downgrades.
Either way the series shouldn't be treated like this.
From the changing of standards and powers to the difference in speed,tone, and accepting of upgrades and downgrades.
Either way the series shouldn't be treated like this.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,433
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Currently this site treat the whole U7 macrocosm as just a single space-time.
Problem is many verse got upgraded despite we never see an actual cosmology map. DB on the other hand have even a complete map of universe, but those staff just hey Daizenshuu, Toriyama is not reliable therefore should not be used. Sound fishy to me
Problem is many verse got upgraded despite we never see an actual cosmology map. DB on the other hand have even a complete map of universe, but those staff just hey Daizenshuu, Toriyama is not reliable therefore should not be used. Sound fishy to me
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I mean, it's at leats something and should be used, if there is nothing that contradicts the information that is in it, it should be be used. And we don't have a definitive cosmology to dbs/dbz etc... and from what I have seen, evidnece is pretty compelling.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,433
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Low 2-C feat cause you destroy an entire space-time which is 4D and infinitely superior to even High 3-A
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How could you not use a official map from the creator of the series.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,433
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Because he and beerus only destroy physical matter inside the universe sphere. Low 2-C come after Infinite Zamasu
Vietthai96
He/Him- 10,433
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You should ask staff, they set those thing up
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I already know where that's gonna go
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Since I don't have staff permission, and honestly, I don't want to bother anyone about asking permission. For whoever does have permission, can someone post this on the thread?
"Because the side issue of the thread is talking about the Macrocosm for each Universe, and since it's not really accepted here, let me get off of that issue and focus on the main one for Low 1-C. A couple counter-arguments were brought up for DontTalk's main points, and should be addressed. As for Ultima logic (Which he aggress is sound so long as the cosmology works under it), this was his point; " I made a very explicit distinction between an overarching flow of time which holds 4-dimensional spacetimes as infinitesimal cross-sections of itself and a spacetime which just has a larger hypervolume."
The former is the one that we're arguing for. The reason for this is that the site already accepts that the Universes have a different Space-Time to one another. If so, this makes perfect sense for why this overarching flow of time would duplicate the separate Universes whenever you time travel for each new timeline, as it overrides the cross-section of each separate Space-Time. Which, the larger hypervolume of just a 4-D dimension to just the normal 4-D Universes wouldn't make much sense for in this example.
"Because the side issue of the thread is talking about the Macrocosm for each Universe, and since it's not really accepted here, let me get off of that issue and focus on the main one for Low 1-C. A couple counter-arguments were brought up for DontTalk's main points, and should be addressed. As for Ultima logic (Which he aggress is sound so long as the cosmology works under it), this was his point; " I made a very explicit distinction between an overarching flow of time which holds 4-dimensional spacetimes as infinitesimal cross-sections of itself and a spacetime which just has a larger hypervolume."
The former is the one that we're arguing for. The reason for this is that the site already accepts that the Universes have a different Space-Time to one another. If so, this makes perfect sense for why this overarching flow of time would duplicate the separate Universes whenever you time travel for each new timeline, as it overrides the cross-section of each separate Space-Time. Which, the larger hypervolume of just a 4-D dimension to just the normal 4-D Universes wouldn't make much sense for in this example.
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Even with controversies, we had a lot of discussion and even accepted stuff we never should have accepted (and that are not accepted anywhere else on the internet, like the GOW and Bleach stuff). Here? There was nothing interesting and no real discussion, like everytime an idea get support and get 'staff threaded'. Allowing staff to actualy have decisional power was always a mistake, they should have just moderated discusions or even just took care of the page, without any power to just force their views.
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I mean all I wanna know is if a "history" which contains several space-times within it counts as a "overarching flow of time which holds 4-dimensional spacetimes as infinitesimal cross-sections of itself"
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Why did they even made a staff only, a revision that is going to effect a big verse, shouldn't it be better be open so that we can get different views, approaches, and why do they keep "this got rejected before" just treat as a new thing and post your arguments for disagreeing or agreeing
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Depends on the context of, "History". What's the example in particular?
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It's especialy funny because they are doing that after everyone was agreeing on it in a previous thread and they were a lot less heavy with their disagreement there, ending it with asking for a blog before a new thread to make the final staff decision. It's only now on their staff thread with no opposition that they get brave, it's always funny when that happens.
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Timelines in Heroes have been refered to as "histories" pretty much and timelines contain 12 universes etc.
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I don't know anything about Heroes. But, If it works basically the same as Super for Timelines, then I'd presume so if the logic for the argument itself is being understood correctly.
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Well we are in verge of defeat anyways....I have permission to post in that thread....I can post this if you want.
Shall I??
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Not just yet. Let's see how Zamasu responds first.
However, what would be a better idea in my opinion would be to post this on Ultima's if you have him on Discord and see what he thinks (If he still wants to even talk about it). It's better to inform the main user and talk it over in private before posting something that I myself am still a bit hesitant on. Also, it can potentially avoid a bit of drama if there's something that's being overlooked in the comment.
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Understandable....I'll ask one of my friends who maybe in contact with Ultima to ask this...
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I haven't seen a single one, usually they just defer to the view of whoever has public opinion on their side.
