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Dragon Ball Super Anime: Fused Zamasu Low 2-C Upgrade (I Actually Know What I'm Talking About I Swear)

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CloverDragon03

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Y'all remember the last time I tried to upgrade Fused Zamasu? Yeah, those were fun times, weren't they?

However, this time, I think I'm actually making more sense. See, I've come to realize something and it's led to me asking this question: Why do we assume Infinite Zamasu is stronger than Fused Zamasu? The answer seems obvious at first, right? "Infinite Zamasu has a Low 2-C feat, Fused Zamasu doesn't, it's as shrimple as that." However, are there any statements indicating that Infinite Zamasu is actually a being stronger than Fused Zamasu? Especially given Dragon Ball is a verse where characters love to say when [X] character got stronger than before (via their ki rising), and yet Infinite Zamasu is given no such statement. All we get is surprise at the fact that Zamasu is becoming the universe... which is range, not AP (and Fused Zamasu already has universal AP to begin with so it's kind of a moot point).

In addition, let's take a look at Infinite Zamasu's few AP and durability feats. His few feats come from this video, for reference. He's unaffected by a combined attack from a tired Base Goku, Base Vegeta, and Super Saiyan (Rage? DBS animation go brr. I think it's Rage) Trunks. And I can't lie... This is a pretty nothing durability feat. I mean for starters, Zamasu still has his immortality, but also, this is nothing we're not used to from Fused Zamasu. He took a Father-Son Galick Gun from Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta and Super Saiyan Rage Trunks who had much more stamina left than before, and was only angered by it rather than actually hurt. Now, going from durability to AP, it doesn't get much better. From the first video I sent, it can be seen that Trunks, Goku, and Vegeta are hit by an energy blast from Infinite Zamasu, but we later see that, despite Goku and Vegeta being in their base forms, they're still able to get up after being hit by it. Not only that, but Shin is able to block a blast from Infinite Zamasu with his barrier. Now, let's compare this to Fused Zamasu. As shown by the Father-Son Galick Gun video, his Lightning of Absolution knocked Vegeta out of Super Saiyan Blue and left him unable to move for a bit, and later - at the end of this video - he one-shots a nearly fully healed Base Goku and Vegeta (I'm not sure if the damage on Vegito carries over to both of them, I'll assume it does, hence why I said "nearly" since Vegito took a few hits from Zamasu but was otherwise fine) and they can hardly move until after Trunks defeats Zamasu. So overall, I'd say there really aren't any feats on Infinite Zamasu's end that would indicate him being stronger than Fused Zamasu.

Edit: It's also been brought to my attention that Goku believed he could at least manage something if he had a spare Senzu Bean, which also helps in proving that Infinite Zamasu isn't stronger than Fused Zamasu, given that Goku did manage something against the latter when using everything he had.

Lastly, I'd like to touch on some miscellaneous things regarding what Infinite Zamasu really is and why it wouldn't make sense for him to be any stronger than Fused Zamasu. Based on the scans on his profile, it's pretty simple to gather what Infinite Zamasu is. He is simply the will of Fused Zamasu, released from the confines of his vessel and thus running out of control. It's also stated that his thoughts flew into the sky. So really, this is just the existing will of Fused Zamasu, but spreading throughout the entire universe rather than remaining in his body due to said body being cut down. This doesn't suggest a growth in strength after all, as this same will still exists within Fused Zamasu, just contained in his vessel.

In a sense, you could consider this a simple case of Attack Potency =/= Destructive Capacity.

That Low 2-C will go crazy.

So, I propose that Fused Zamasu be scaled to Low 2-C via being as strong as Infinite Zamasu, as nothing within Dragon Ball Super indicates that the latter is actually stronger than the former. The only reason it's been treated that way is because the latter is the one that performed the Low 2-C feat, yet that ignores the fact that none of Infinite Zamasu's feats against Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks actually place him above Fused Zamasu.

This will affect a lot of scaling. A number of 3-A characters will become Low 2-C from this if it gets accepted (honestly the progression from 3-A to Low 2-C to 2-C is amazing to me but I digress), though I'm not too sure on the specifics. Like, I believe Goku, Vegeta, and Trunks will scale in some capacity given their attacks could eventually overwhelm Zamasu's and they could fend off some of his casual attacks as well, though I'm not too sure on that. In addition, this would mean the likes of full power Hit, Tournament of Power Ultimate Gohan and 17, etc. would also scale. There's a lot to work through.

I expect this to be controversial, so let's please keep things civil as always. I'll put up the Agree, Disagree, and Neutral tally but let's be honest I'm gonna forget about it immediately.

Agree: 23 (@1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void, @SwordLegendz01, @Kachon123, @Stefano4444, @XXBenShapiroXx, @Eminiteable, @LuffyRuffy46307, @SirAlex09, @Da3ggman, @Milly_Rocking_Bandit, @speedster352, @Dalesean027, @BlackAstaSenpai, @LordTracer, @Gilad_Hyperstar, @Duragoji123, @Braking, @Lonkitt, @Mr.Cinos15, @Eseseso, @Steve_Rogers1, @Planck69, @SSJGeminiJJ)
Disagree: 1 (@Deagonx)
Neutral: 4 (@Golden_Void, @LephyrTheRevanchist, @Tarang123, @DarkDragonMedeus)

I'm so gonna regret this aren't I?
 
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So overall, I'd say there really aren't any feats on Infinite Zamasu's end that would indicate him being stronger than Fused Zamasu.
So really, this is just the existing will of Fused Zamasu, but spreading throughout the entire universe rather than remaining in his body due to said body being cut down. This doesn't suggest a growth in strength after all, as this same will still exists within Fused Zamasu, just contained in his vessel.
He's unaffected by a combined attack from a tired Base Goku, Base Vegeta, and Super Saiyan (Rage? DBS animation go brr. I think it's Rage) Trunks. And I can't lie... This is a pretty nothing durability feat.
I should preface this by saying Trunks held his own against a weaker FZ's Holy Wrath before Vegeta helped him beat the attack. FZ became stronger and larger after striking himself with light of divine justice, and he was washing Trunks until he got the spirit bomb amp.

Assuming Trunks is at a comparable power level to earlier since he can still hold a transformation, the same attack he used against FZ earlier got insta-deleted against IZ. Goku and Vegeta's contribution is irrelevant at this point. Gowasu also stated that their fused physiology incompatibility was a weakness, a glitch that got patched in the next DLC.

As far as AP goes, the cast had some pretty thick plot armor. The kaioshin were able to protect themselves, the humans, and the time machine from IZ's blast. They should've been deleted regardless of whatever defenses they used. Goku and Vegeta were caught off guard since they defused and got treated like a whack-a-mole game, but they still had energy to give to Trunks for the spirit bomb.

Neutral.
 
Future Trunks's attack was "insta-deleted" in the sense that it didn't actually hurt Infinite Zamasu... which the same can be said in the case of Fused Zamasu, as he was only angered by the attack rather than actually hurt by it (and this is keeping in mind it was a Galick Gun combined with SSB Vegeta's)

Also I'd say that Trunks holding his own against that Holy Wrath is a bit of a stretch. Trunks's attack was getting overwhelmed and Zamasu didn't seem to be giving it his all
 
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Let me make sure I understand your argument:

The reason IZ is scaled as greater than FZ is because of the Low 2-C Feat that FZ doesn't have. Your contention is that this so-called feat is just range, not AP, and that there are no other indications that IZ is stronger than FZ.

So, here's where I'm stuck. Why would that entail upgrading both to Low 2-C rather than downgrading both to 3-A? Since your main argument appears to be that the feat isn't actually Low 2-C AP, it's just range? In the absence of that feat being an AP feat, what is the justification for L2-C exactly? I see the feats in your post, but I'm not clear on what is meant to be Low 2-C or how. IZ's current profile only has the "becoming one with the universe" as the L2-C justification, so what will replace it to justify L2-C?
 
Because he was actually affecting space-time, so the feat is Low 2-C, not 3-A
Okay, so this feat by IZ is L2-C due to affect spacetime, but not because of the "becoming the universe" bit? Alright.

There’s nothing to prove that Infinite Zamasu is actually stronger than Fused Zamasu
Okay. So ultimately you don't object to the feat being used to justify L2-C, but you're saying there's an absence of evidence that IZ is stronger?

If that's the case I'd say put me down for disagree. I do not think something like that needs to be spelled out directly if there is a differential in feats.
 
While I am not going to be making extensive arguments against this or going to try to stop the revision, I still personally don't agree with upgrading base Infinite Zamasu to Low 2-C. His power level growing automatically and he want from Goku and Vegeta being able to sort of keep up with him to getting utterly stomped by Vegito, so matching Vegito when he started becoming unstable. And Trunks' Spirit Sword bisected him until be became Infinite Zamasu and was immune to everything anyone else could do besides Zeno.
 
While I am not going to be making extensive arguments against this or going to try to stop the revision, I still personally don't agree with upgrading base Infinite Zamasu to Low 2-C. His power level growing automatically and he want from Goku and Vegeta being able to sort of keep up with him to getting utterly stomped by Vegito, so matching Vegito when he started becoming unstable. And Trunks' Spirit Sword bisected him until be became Infinite Zamasu and was immune to everything anyone else could do besides Zeno.
I think that it may be better if only the buff and batshit insane Fused Zamasu (not that he was that sane to begin with) was Low 2-C.

Only Vegito and Sword of Hope Trunks would scale.
 
and was immune to everything anyone else could do besides Zeno.
He wasn't immune at all. They were just too weak to damage him. Goku and Vegeta were too damaged and tired to transform and without the Sword of Hope Trunks couldn't touch Zamasu
His power level growing automatically and he want from Goku and Vegeta being able to sort of keep up with him
Zamasu was holding back aginst them because of his arrogance. Only when Goku caught him off guard he powered up fully, which was when Gowasu suggested the fusion
to getting utterly stomped by Vegito, so matching Vegito when he started becoming unstable.
At no point Zamasu was matching Vegito. The only reason he managed to take the hits is because of his semi-immortality allowing him to regenerate
 
Future Trunks's attack was "insta-deleted" in the sense that it didn't actually hurt Infinite Zamasu... which the same can be said in the case of Fused Zamasu, as he was only angered by the attack rather than actually hurt by it (and this is keeping in mind it was a Galick Gun combined with SSB Vegeta's)

Also I'd say that Trunks holding his own against that Holy Wrath is a bit of a stretch. Trunks's attack was getting overwhelmed and Zamasu didn't seem to be giving it his all
It's not a stretch, he was resisting Zamasu's attack on his own.
Heavily agree.

Also, Goku makes the statement if he had one more Senzu he could at least try with Infinite Zamasu.
This is not evidence that he actually would have accomplished anything.
 
This is not evidence that he actually would have accomplished anything.
Goku is not one to overestimate his capabilities, or underestimate his opponent. The fact that a weakened (so weak he can’t even go Super Saiyan, much less Blue) Goku can take a blast from Infinite Zamasu and get up, then proceed to make that statement, leads testimony to his claim holding water.
 
While I am not going to be making extensive arguments against this or going to try to stop the revision, I still personally don't agree with upgrading base Infinite Zamasu to Low 2-C. His power level growing automatically and he want from Goku and Vegeta being able to sort of keep up with him to getting utterly stomped by Vegito, so matching Vegito when he started becoming unstable. And Trunks' Spirit Sword bisected him until be became Infinite Zamasu and was immune to everything anyone else could do besides Zeno.
He grew stronger because of Light of Justice, and then again because of his Power Stressed Form. Trunks's Spirit Sword is kind of irrelevant here because it just means it's stronger than Vegito Blue. And the last point about only Zeno being able to do anything is just not a good one, as everyone else was super tired out. Only Trunks could transform and Super Saiyan Rage alone did nothing to Fused Zamasu. It also doesn't change the fact that Base Goku and Base Vegeta were able to take an attack from Infinite Zamasu when previously an attack from Power Stressed Fused Zamasu nearly one-shot them.

Fused Zamasu's Saiyan Power doesn't even factor into Infinite Zamasu at all because he's lost his part-Saiyan body
 
It's not a stretch, he was resisting Zamasu's attack on his own.
The scene suggests otherwise. He was being overwhelmed and Zamasu wasn't giving it his all at all (he was just laughing while his blast was overtaking Trunks's). He only started getting serious once Vegeta combined his attack with Trunks's. Yes, it is in fact a stretch.
It's not a stretch, he was resisting Zamasu's attack on his own.

This is not evidence that he actually would have accomplished anything.
I'm gonna essentially parrot what Milly said in response to this. Goku doesn't overestimate himself, at all. He knows his limits, we've seen this throughout Dragon Ball. If he says he may be able to do something at full strength, that should be taken as a fact.
 
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