Dragon Ball Possible Upgrades

[DTG499]

Both of you

 

[ByAsura]

Ok. I wasn't saying they were the same, I was disagreeing with that. Read my comment again.

 

[DTG499]

"Even then it never refers to size" you meant the word eternity or the quote itself?

 

[ByAsura]

The word eternity.

 

[Giygas3]

@DTG Let me post something I made ages ago to show this relationship example.

"Sure, But the Room of Spirit of Time is a seperate Space-Time that Universe 7 still encompasses. Here's an Analogy: I carry around a suit case, and within this suitcase is a mini dimension with its own space-time (Like the Fantastic Beast, but this time the box does have its own seperate flow of time).

The Universe still encompasses this mini dimension, but its flow of time is a bit different. So let's say we have Set A (The Universe), and an element, B (The mini dimension). We draw a huge circle which represents A, and draw it in with Blue. (This shows which part has the same Space-Time.) Then we draw an element B within A, which is black. Now we have some diverges within Set A for Space-Time not being the same everywhere. This is much like the relationship between the Universe and the Room of Spirit and Time.


This is supported by the fact that when Vegeta destroys the Room of Spirit and Time, he always ends back at Kami's Lookout, which shows it's a different Space-Time with its own size that Kami Lookout encompasses. So I think the Box analogy suits best.

The fact that time traveling to another timeline, clearly affects both. No one is going to argue just because time-traveling affects The Room of Spirit and Time, and the regular Universe, that they now have the same Space-Time - They clearly don't. So this argument of all the Universe being affected by time-traveling at once therefore they must have the same Space-Time, is extremely weak. "

 

[Ionliosite]

Filled with infinite and infinite in size are the same thing.

No, they aren't. One actually means something, the other is blatant purple prose.

 

[Tyri456]

tbh "filled with eternity" sounds to me just a cool way to say infinite size

 

[Ionliosite]

But it doesn't mention size at all, so we can't jump to conclusions.

 

[My_area]

Specially how Goku shaking world of void wasn't shaking the spectator seats which makes no sense and I believe the seats were being shaken by magnitude 1 or 2 earthquake like shaking so the feat is very strange anyway

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

There seriously needs to be an in-depth cosmology analysis tbh.

 

[DTG499]

@Giygas3 hmm. So how come that same relationship isn't draw between other world and the Kaiō shin realm?

 

[DTG499]

Since this is the best thread to get people's attention I got something for y'all boys. https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3838396?useskin=oasis

 

[Giygas3]

@DTG Really a matter with the default position. Basically, Universes by default are treated as having different Space-Time continuum. But, they would be treated the same if something happens that contradicts that notion.

The Kaio-shin realm and other world are still in the same Universe, so the default position would be to say that they have the same Space-time Continuum. And so far, there's really no evidence to support that they have different space-time continuum's, other then some very vague statements from King Kai and Goku.

 

[DTG499]

Got it

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@DTG Really a matter with the default position. Basically, Universes by default are treated as having different Space-Time continuum. But, they would be treated the same if something happens that contradicts that notion.

The Kaio-shin realm and other world are still in the same Universe, so the default position would be to say that they have the same Space-time Continuum. And so far, there's really no evidence to support that they have different space-time continuum's, other then some very vague statements from King Kai and Goku.

The thing is, the mortal universe was already called a universe before DBS and the realms were said to be other/parallel dimensions.

 

[Giygas3]

@Zamasu When Whis depicts Universe 7, and the scene in the anime when Super Shenron as lighting everything up, the Kaio-shin Realm and Otherworld aren't depicted as being a whole separate realm to the Universe itself. As we know, The Kaio-shin realm and Otherworld are all in Universe 7, but still separated by the Living World. There's still not much to say that it's actually separated by two different Space-Time Continuums.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Planets doesn't make sense though, the kanji µÿƒ in the page is mainly used for stars and it even means it as seen here. And also Cell was going to destroy the Solar System which includes the Sun, saying that Buu only destroyed planets is only backscaling from that.

It just means reflective celestial body. Vegeta uses it to refer to Earth and Frieza uses it to refer to Namek. There's no context that implies star over planet, especially when Bibbidi used Buu to desteoy inhabited planets rather than random stars.

As for Cell he explicitly mentions the solar system in Japanese rather than "hoshi"

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@Zamasu When Whis depicts Universe 7, and the scene in the anime when Super Shenron as lighting everything up, the Kaio-shin Realm and Otherworld aren't depicted as being a whole separate realm to the Universe itself. As we know, The Kaio-shin realm and Otherworld are all in Universe 7, but still separated by the Living World. There's still not much to say that it's actually separated by two different Space-Time Continuums.

The universe, afterlife, realm of the Kai, and demon realm are said to be separate locations despite being in the same globe. Btw the model Whis used and the scene in the anime isn't consistent with Toriyama's Illustratio which was in a manga chapter that debuted after the Super Shenron summoning episode. We also use the illustration for all DB continuities on the wiki, sorta like a composite thing.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Bump, also the living world is stated to be split into two dimensions, the universe and the demon realm. They're also stated to be like two sides of the same coin, implying they're parallel dimensions.

 

[DTG499]

Goku can access other world and the Kaiō shin realm through instant transmission but not RoSaT and other universes with IT. Isn't that one of the main driving factors of the argument against there being multi-timelines in a single universe

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Goku can access other world and the Kaiō shin realm through instant transmission but not RoSaT and other universes with IT. Isn't that one of the main driving factors of the argument against there being multi-timelines in a single universe

Really? Because Goku has dimension travel for doing so.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Even then that's the only competent refute I've actually heard, so thanks for at least bringing that up.

 

[Giygas3]

To be fair with that point, doesn't he need a ki signature to do it? In all cases that comes to mind, when someone else is in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, he has no reason to teleport to them because he's typically doing his own thing.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

When has he ever tried teleporting in there?

 

[Giygas3]

That's the point. He has never tried teleporting when someone else was in it.

My response was directed at DTG with his Hyperbolic Time Chamber point.

 

[ByAsura]

Goku explicitly cannot sense KI in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber.

 

[Giygas3]

Alrighty then. I don't recall this ever being said, so could you post where it's said that he cannot sense ki in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber?

 

[ByAsura]

It was in the Buu saga





Anyway, Instant Transmission never got Goku to the Realm of the Kais, which explicitly requires to highest level of teleportation

The Kaioushin Realm:

• The Kaioushin Realm, where the Kaioushin, the gods of the [other] gods, reside. To observe both the World Beyond and the Living World, it revolves around the circumference of the entire body of the world on a fixed cycle, like a satellite. Of course, under important circumstances where the fate of the universe is at stake, they sometimes interfere with both the World Beyond and the Living World. Beings from the World Beyond or the Living World are not permitted to enter here. Without the highest level of Shunkan Idou ability, movement [to and from] is impossible.

However, there's still a statement that time doesn't flow in the afterlife.

 

[Omegas03]

I think one of the arguments against this is that U7 is just R^3 and will never reach R^4 no matter how many realms you add to it. I didn't quite understand it though.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

@ByAsura [http://] [also implied that time moves slower there. ]

 

[ByAsura]

Your scan doesn't work.

 

[DTG499]

You have a broken link

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

https://**********.com/manga/Dragon-Ball/DragonBallZ/0017-002.png

 

[ByAsura]

That could also be a reference to the super high gravity and King Kai's own knowledge of techniques.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, that is not an indication of time working differently. King Kai is simply saying that 158 days is the equivalent of training on earth for thousands of years.

 

[DTG499]

Bumparino

 

[AwkguyDB]

so are there any upgrades that come from this?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah that KK scan is just him saying thst training with him is worth far more than any training he could get on Earth. Not that his planet operates on a different time-scale.

 

[DTG499]

I think that y'all should check out my "Jiren is missing resistances" thread

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

After the evidence given I think we could cross off the 2-C U7 stuff.