I think Jiren is missing a couple resistances.

DTG499 · Dec 20, 2019

Ok hear me out, dragon ball is relatively simplistic show when it comes to power gap increase because people get resistances to certain types of abilities just by being physically stronger than the person using hax. When jiren was stated to be the strongest foe in dragon ball history that put him in a low 2-C because of infinite zamasu. Why would that not apply his resistances? Unless this website thinks buu can beat the strongest foe in history by turning him into candy. Or that babidi can mind control him when he is in limit break form (yes, the requirements line up for babidi, jiren tried to kill the universes 7 team). Resistance to void manip and existence erasure unless you think belmod and toppo can one shot jiren with their hakai. That's what would happen, right, when you have 0 resistance to something, you just get one shot? I don't think what I'm asking is unreasonable, I'm not going into NLF by stating he has resistances to new abilities or ones that aren't even in dragon ball. Just all the abilities that came before the statement "the strongest foe in dragon ball history".

Planck69 · Dec 20, 2019

Well....it's plausible that he would have enough power to resist the effects of the Hakai to a degree but I can only see the rest being accepted if you can show any proof of higher power being implied to completely negate the effects of these abilities (very likely but again, something more concrete is needed). That's all I'll say about it for now.

DTG499 · Dec 20, 2019

I mean if he doesn't have those resistances then babidi and buu can beat the strongest foe in dragon ball history.

DTG499 · Dec 20, 2019

The show is simplistic in nature, goku was able to start resisting time stop by becoming 10 times stronger. Vegeta gained resistances to hakai by becoming physically stronger. The higher power is just being physically stronger. Just within the confines of the abilities shown within the show and before that quote.

Planck69 · Dec 20, 2019

I somewhat agree that either Babidi or Majin Buu being able to beat the GoDs and Angels, not to mention those comparable, with hax seems very unlikely. And yes, being able to power through your opponents abilities with pure power is a staple of the series. Otherwise Zeno would be erased by some overly-ambitious God by now and other such stuff would have happened.

What I'm worried about is giving a major resistance buff from intuition alone, however justified and logical it may seem. If you can offer anything that implies this within the actual series it may have a better chance of being accepted. But I'm not staff so you'll just have to wait for their say in this.

DTG499 · Dec 20, 2019

it would be reasonable to put likely mind manipulation, transmutation, void manipulation and existence erasure resistance.

Planck69 · Dec 20, 2019

DTG499 said:
it would be reasonable to put likely mind manipulation, transmutation, void manipulation and existence erasure resistance.

I can sorta buy Resistance to Void Manipulation and Existence Erasure since we already have it implied by far weaker characters like SSBE Vegeta tanking Hakai Ki attacks from GoD Toppo and Frieza surviving Sidra's attempted Hakai by manipulating it's energy. Again, I'm not the best nor the only authority on Dragon Ball so run this by someone else knowledgeable.

Transmutation and Mind Manipulation Resistance is something that I'm rather iffy about since it doesn't seem to be contradicted by anything beyond the unlikelyhood of this working on far more powerful beings within the setting. But that's already approaching Argument from Incredulity fallacy territory and I can't really see it being accepted.

DTG499 · Dec 20, 2019

I mean if it doesn't get accepted they're pretty saying yes, buu can beat the GoDs, those comparable and the angels by turning them into candy. That seems way more fallacious to me.

Planck69 · Dec 20, 2019

DTG499 said:
I mean if it doesn't get accepted they're pretty saying yes, buu can beat the GoDs, those comparable and the angels by turning them into candy. That seems way more fallacious to me.

Maybe. You should get staff to comment here if you want this to go anywhere.

Ionliosite · Dec 21, 2019

This will likely get rejected since it has been mentioned a couple of times in the past, so don't get your hopes up.

DTG499 · Dec 21, 2019

Cool if this thread gets rejected I'm going to put up versus thread between Babidi and jiren. Put up a victory for my guy babidi. Beerus, frieza, infinite Zamasu, hit I don't see any mind manipulation resistance on their profiles they're all getting clapped.

Planck69 · Dec 21, 2019

DTG499 said:
Cool if this thread gets rejected I'm going to put up versus thread between Babidi and jiren. Put up a victory for my guy babidi. Beerus, frieza, infinite Zamasu, hit I don't see any mind manipulation resistance on their profiles they're all getting clapped.

If you're sure Babidi opens with them then sure, go ahead. It would be kinda funny.

DTG499 · Dec 23, 2019

AwkguyDB · Dec 23, 2019

Jiren without a shadow of doubt should have resistance to Void Manip/Existence Erasure

As far as Mind Manip and Transmut goes, I'm inclined to believe Jiren would scale because Babidi's Magic and Boo's Candy beam have both been resisted.

ArmBill · Dec 24, 2019

Mutiple abilites in dragonball have been stated and showed to be overcomable with sheer power. If one person can overcome a hax with power theres no reason why someone else who is similar or even more powerfull shouldn't be able to. Especially since the power system in Dragonball is simplistic and just has to do with your Ki.

DTG499 · Dec 25, 2019

Bumparino

Planck69 · Dec 25, 2019

DT, I don't think this will be accepted...

DTG499 · Dec 25, 2019

I need a written acceptance or refusal from one of the staff or mods for this

Planck69 · Dec 25, 2019

DTG499 said:
I need a written acceptance or refusal from one of the staff or mods for this

Did you try contacting them?

DTG499 · Dec 25, 2019

Honestly it's a win win for me either way. If this gets rejected my homie babidi is going on a win streak

DTG499 · Dec 25, 2019

Yeah I did, I think the one I contacted are on break or something

ByAsura · Dec 26, 2019

This simplistic nature is why resistances aren't given to characters, not the other way 'round.

ArmBill · Dec 26, 2019

Ngl seeing babidi get wins from people like Jiren would be pretty funny

Planck69 · Dec 26, 2019

DTG499 said:
Honestly it's a win win for me either way. If this gets rejected my homie babidi is going on a win streak

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

ALRIGHT Babidi is gonna rack up some dubs

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

So I went around posting VS threads and everyone told me this "Wait stop this he does have mind hax BUT he actually doesn't". People use it as a deabting point but they don't put it on the profiles.

Amexim · Dec 26, 2019

No. You just don't get the arguments... They don't have resistances, the characters who have the hax just have weaknesses and limitations to their powers...

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Vegeta_(Dragon_Ball_Super)

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

Explain me their arguments in depth and in detail then I'll tell you if I mis understood it.

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

Alright im going to bed. If i wake up and see both threads closed I promise you i will ******* cry.

Amexim · Dec 26, 2019

Cry more emo kid. (It's a meme. I mean no harm)

But seriously, why should I do that? They literally explained it themselves to you. And also, again, it's because

A. Vegeta has a strong enough will to resist Babidi. The statement exists. Buu was too wild, iirc.

And...

B. It's not strong enough to work on shit because the weakness of DB hax is that strength makes it hard to use these powers.

GyroNutz · Dec 26, 2019

The "Strongest Foe in DB History" would just mean he has more raw power than Toppo, Belmod, Buu and Babidi. Not like he'd lose to Buu or Babidi though when he can just blitz and destroy them in a single hit.

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

I'm perfectly aware that is what they meant, I'm just saying DB has been consistent with the fact that being physically more powerful gives you resistance to hax.

So by what you are saying, jiren would lose in a speed equal match up with belmod because he would one shot him with a hakai.

Babidi's mind control works on people with just a tiny little bit of evil in their heart. If you can get taken over from just yelling at someone the you can defiantly get taken over for destroying a planet or attempting a massacre. We have listed mind hax resistance for resisting far weaker abilities. When I posted those battles in the VS thread said , NO, it would not work on Zamasu, Beerus, jiren or Frieza because the mind control is too weak. To weak comparatively to how strong they are! How is that not a call for a listing?

GyroNutz · Dec 26, 2019

Hax is too broad a term to generalise it like that. If a certain hax doesn't work on stronger characters, that's just a weakness of the hax. Generally it's only a higher dimensional character who would be resistant to that sort of hax by default, and even then I'm not sure if that's how it works under the new tiering system anymore.

Yes, Jiren would lose a speed equal matchup against Belmod due to hakai. That doesn't discredit the statement though.

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

No, like what I said earlier in this thread I am only talking about the hax in dragon ball that have been shown to be over come through shear strength. Everyone keeps saying the same thing it's not a level of resistance it's the weakness of the ability, I say what is the difference? Babidi was shown to affect yamu, spopavich, yakon, pui pui, dabura and vegeta. That is a level of resistance right there we have it listed on buu's profile and vegeta's profile. From what I have been told by the people on this wiki is that mind manipulation power is measured from how many people you can control. If you can only control one person at a time that is the weakest mind manip that you could have if someone resisted that level, you would post it as mind manip resist right? The power threshold needed to resist mind hax in dragon ball was shown to be the power level of majin vegeta and buu. If you are stronger than those characters than you have the 5-person level of mind hax resist. Yes, I know we don't if controlled all 5 at once but that just makes it weaker than someone who can not invalidate it.

Ok you are aware that Belmod has the ability to cover himself in hakia energy on his profile, right? If jiren and belmod fought speed not equal, all he would have to do his cover himself in hakia and jiren would not be able to land any ki attacks on belmod (yes void hax resistance affects your ki blasts as well, that was shown with vegeta's final flash on toppo) and jiren would disintegrate after landing a single punch.

Amexim · Dec 26, 2019

In Dragon Ball, Hax doesn't work on shit too stronk. That's what is being said. It's not resistance, it's a weakness. The fact that you don't see the difference is your problem, no offense. Me being weak doesn't make you strong, and it's that simple.

DTG499 · Dec 26, 2019

I'm not saying the mind hax resistance is strong. I'm saying if there is a mind hax that doesn't work on a character, no matter how weak and as long it's still powerful enough to affect a number of intelligent beings, that resistance should be listed.

ArmBill · Dec 26, 2019

Lol, if we went by the weakness of the hax route. Then we would need to remove alot of dragonball resistances, since alot are very blatantly power>hax, like hakai and time skip. But I highly disagree with this mind set. This rule for power>hax for certain abilities would only apply inside dragonball (usless the other verses has something similar of course). Since the power in dragonball isnt necessarily the same in other verses. No other verses will ever have the exact same thing as Dragonball's Ki, sure it can have something akin to it but never exact. Plus all these hax still have the properties of hax. Normal strength would not allow you to move while time is stopped for example. It's just a big reach to say these haxs have weakness to power in general. Than to just say characters in dragonball who are similar or stronger in strength have the ability to overcome these haxs. Plus as a side point. You can not say a writer would let pre top BASE goku resist EE, but let Jiren get erased, that isnt logical at all!!!

DTG499 · Dec 27, 2019

Bumparino

AwkguyDB · Dec 27, 2019

Jiren gets EE resistance as it makes absolutely no sense that anyone stronger than Toppo, has the Hakai, and Goldy Freezer/ BASE fricken Goku can resist EE but Jiren would bite the dust against Sidra XD.

I think Jiren is missing a couple resistances.

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