• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Dragon Ball Heroes: Cosmological Review

Status
Not open for further replies.
ThatBusyDude said:
Different understanding towards the multiverse and spacetime? In what way? It uses time rings and other things from dragon ball super including time machines and the 12 universe system. Transcending is a hyperbole or it just doesn’t mean what you say it does as an example when the dark dragon balls flew “beyond spacetime” it actually went to a different history which is a location within spacetime. There’s no reason I should drop it, you mean to halt the dialect because you’re having a hard time rebuking the arguments presented.

It is my opinion and it isn’t far from the truth either.
Click to expand...
They use that however does super uses scrolls to travel to different history? no does super have time crystals that are different universes no. Heroes uses that however its completely different as they have statements of infinite timelines. Trancending wouldnt be a hyperbole unless proven in the DBH and Xenoverse unless I see prove on that side of those statements of being tracending space time is a hyperbole ill just ignore you. This untrue as this had been discussed how the dark super dragon ball actually went beyond space and time ill send you the discussion towards it. Nice tatics coming from a goon.

Your view mate but that still an opinon. No pork?
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
Should i ask myself some questions? This is rather familiar
Click to expand...

It is there was a thread from someone who i believe is the same person who is trying to debunk 5D COT use this to downgrade DBH to mountain level
 
CraigTucker said:
They use that however does super uses scrolls to travel to different history? no does super have time crystals that are different universes no. Heroes uses that however its completely different as they have statements of infinite timelines. Trancending wouldnt be a hyperbole unless proven in the DBH and Xenoverse unless I see prove on that side of those statements of being tracending space time is a hyperbole ill just ignore you. This untrue as this had been discussed how the dark super dragon ball actually went beyond space and time ill send you the discussion towards it. Nice tatics coming from a goon.

Your view mate but that still an opinon. No pork?


It is there was a thread from someone who i believe is the same person who is trying to debunk 5D COT use this to downgrade DBH to mountain level
Click to expand...
That’s an extra accessory used to travel through time, it pretty much has the same function as a time ring except it goes to a specific timeline. Them having infinite timelines doesn’t make the statements context any different I fail to see how this is the case. Beyond spacetime has been proven in this site and others to be hyperbole, transcending has been used as hyperbole in dragon ball many times it would be Occam’s razor to take the “transcending” statement with a big grain of salt considering how consistent dragon ball does this.

An opinion that’s not far from the truth isn’t to be ignored as easily as an opinion with no base. Want green eggs and ham?

I don’t agree with mountain level heroes but everything else in that post is pretty good.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
Funnily enough, that kind of thread isn't even allowed here.
Click to expand...
Actually it is, I had a talk with someone else in another crt about this what’s said is that one should refrain from creating content revision threads that consist solely of links to off site sources and this is mainly for content revision threads or arguments that have no base. Don’t believe me? Go and read it I quoted it.

"Please refrain from creating content revision threads that consist solely of links to off-site sources (such as Youtube, Reddit, other VS forums, etc.) and have no discernible arguments of their own. Many of these sources are not made with our specific standards in mind, lack proper source references, and may contain a lot of arguments that have already been discussed or are useless for the purpose of the relevant threads, which makes them hard to evaluate. As such, it is highly encouraged that when creating a content revision thread based on off-site sources, our members should specify their core arguments in detail with relevant evidence. It is also acceptable to post such threads in the general discussion or questions and answers sections of our forum for discussion, rather than in the content revision section. Furthermore, adding a link to a respect thread or character analysis video with the intention of providing quick access to a large collection of feats is acceptable, but each of those feats should be analysed step by step to ensure that they are not presented out of context, and any calculation-dependent feats should be placed in wiki blog posts and evaluated by our calc group members to ensure sufficient accuracy."

This is once again using something that doesn’t even fit your narrative.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
Yours is literally a copy paste though.

Also tone down the accusatory tone. Thank you.
Click to expand...
Not everything is a copy and paste, not only that but the arguments are something that should be taken into account.

I’m not accusing anyone of anything though. I’m just pointing out that the rule you’re referring to isn’t saying what you think it’s saying.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
That’s an extra accessory used to travel through time, it pretty much has the same function as a time ring except it goes to a specific timeline. Them having infinite timelines doesn’t make the statements context any different I fail to see how this is the case. Beyond spacetime has been proven in this site and others to be hyperbole, transcending has been used as hyperbole in dragon ball many times it would be Occam’s razor to take the “transcending” statement with a big grain of salt considering how consistent dragon ball does this.

An opinion that’s not far from the truth isn’t to be ignored as easily as an opinion with no base. Want green eggs and ham?

I don’t agree with mountain level heroes but everything else in that post is pretty good.
Click to expand...
"Be hyperbole" the only way for it be consider a hyperbole is to be proven. Your hole argument for it to be a hyperbole was based of statements from Dragon ball super as It being true before =/= it always being true. This is still appeal to tradition


Occam's razor is "the most simple solution is the most valid" but that not always the case and With the void I prove above it refer to higher dimension since it separate timelines, and base on the wiki's standard, that's 5D
 
CraigTucker said:
"Be hyperbole" the only way for it be consider a hyperbole is to be proven. Your hole argument for it to be a hyperbole was based of statements from Dragon ball super as It being true before =/= it always being true. This is still appeal to tradition


Occam's razor is "the most simple solution is the most valid" but that not always the case and With the void I prove above it refer to higher dimension since it separate timelines, and base on the wiki's standard, that's 5D
Click to expand...
It’s pretty much proven by the majority of instances such things are mentioned are pretty much just that. Akira Toriyama (creator of dragon ball) himself used “battle that transcends time” to refer to the Goku Black arc (an arc that happens in DBX and DBH as well) to refer to time travel but using an exaggeration of words to describe it because in no moment do the characters transcend time at all.

It’s also the “entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity” and the arguments presented from geb’s post supports that and it’s in line with grice’s razor, you guys are taking the words said at face value instead of looking at what they meant.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
It is the case though, I’ve shown that “transcending time” refers to time travel in Dragon Ball.


Crack Of Time is not literally “Beyond Time” it’s an enclosed space separated from Time






“Transcending Time” and/or “Beyond Time” in Dragon Ball does not refer to level of existence it simply refers to the ability to manipulate or resist time in any way for example: time traveling

Goku Black is stated to “Transcend Time” using a Time Ring



But all that refers to is traveling through paths in SpaceTime



Towa says the Dark Dragon Balls have flown “Beyond Space and Time” and that she will retrieve them by going through a Rift in SpaceTime


But previously this rift they use was stated to be within SpaceTime


And it’s revealed that the Dark Dragon Balls are within SpaceTime so they never literally went beyond SpaceTime so it’s all just flowery language





To add to my case that these are in fact the Dark Dragon Balls and that they are within SpaceTime

They’re Revealed to be the Dark Dragon Balls and even confirmed to be in different timelines/histories




“Beyond SpaceTime” is just hyperbole for what’s in SpaceTime or just outside of it.
Click to expand...
That’s why these things need context time travel can be referred as transcending space and time because it’s exceeding the limits of space time and other examples but being beyond space and time can also be used as supporting evidence for qualitative superiority and just because sometimes the term is used to refer to different things doesn’t mean it has to be referring to time travel every time especially here where that makes no sense so as shown where it’s a space that’s timeless and referred in ways which implies a higher dimensional space is all consistent with beyond space and time meaning it’s qualitatively superior and it’s a realm that contains an infinite amount of timelines which look like white specs in the CoT so it containing an infinite amount of timelines but being timeless at the same time shows qualitative superiority over infinite timelines in general context is important something that you ignored heavily

Just wait on Ultima no point in derailing the crt
 
ThatBusyDude said:
It’s pretty much proven by the majority of instances such things are mentioned are pretty much just that. Akira Toriyama (creator of dragon ball) himself used “battle that transcends time” to refer to the Goku Black arc (an arc that happens in DBX and DBH as well) to refer to time travel but using an exaggeration of words to describe it because in no moment do the characters transcend time at all.

It’s also the “entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity” and the arguments presented from geb’s post supports that and it’s in line with grice’s razor, you guys are taking the words said at face value instead of looking at what they meant.
Click to expand...


And again Appeal to tradition and they do as explain with Zamasu fusing with the space between timelines. Also Geb is know to use fake translation so take that big grain of salt with him
 
godofice said:
That’s why these things need context time travel can be referred as transcending space and time because it’s exceeding the limits of space time and other examples but being beyond space and time can also be used as supporting evidence for qualitative superiority and just because sometimes the term is used to refer to different things doesn’t mean it has to be referring to time travel every time especially here where that makes no sense so as shown where it’s a space that’s timeless and referred in ways which implies a higher dimensional space is all consistent with beyond space and time meaning it’s qualitatively superior and it’s a realm that contains an infinite amount of timelines which look like white specs in the CoT so it containing an infinite amount of timelines but being timeless at the same time shows qualitative superiority over infinite timelines in general context is important something that you ignored heavily

Just wait on Ultima no point in derailing the crt
Click to expand...
Best to wait for Ultima on this.
 
CraigTucker said:
And again Appeal to tradition and they do as explain with Zamasu fusing with the space between timelines. Also Geb is know to use fake translation so take that big grain of salt with him
Click to expand...
That’s not appeal to tradition if someone is known to consistently lie or over exaggerate you take anything they say with a grain of salt until you see it for yourself to verify. I know he sometimes fakes translations, it’s also a fact that it’s a thing dragon ball fans are known to do as well. The likelihood that Geb faked the translation here is unlikely considering how organized everything looks that said this doesn’t seem like a fake translation personally I found the dragon ball xenoverse and heroes scans to be the same when I looked at them myself so I was more shocked he was being genuine and played it by the book.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
That’s not appeal to tradition if someone is known to consistently lie or over exaggerate you take anything they say with a grain of salt until you see it for yourself to verify. I know he sometimes fakes translations, it’s also a fact that it’s a thing dragon ball fans are known to do as well. The likelihood that Geb faked the translation here is unlikely considering how organized everything looks that said this doesn’t seem like a fake translation personally I found the dragon ball xenoverse and heroes scans to be the same when I looked at them myself so I was more shocked he was being genuine and played it by the book.
Click to expand...
It is the definition of appeal to tradition and I have proven that this instance we're talking isn't the same. So it is. Because you see it organized would mean it isn't buddy open your eyes and face reality
 
ThatBusyDude said:
That’s not appeal to tradition if someone is known to consistently lie or over exaggerate you take anything they say with a grain of salt until you see it for yourself to verify. I know he sometimes fakes translations, it’s also a fact that it’s a thing dragon ball fans are known to do as well. The likelihood that Geb faked the translation here is unlikely considering how organized everything looks that said this doesn’t seem like a fake translation personally I found the dragon ball xenoverse and heroes scans to be the same when I looked at them myself so I was more shocked he was being genuine and played it by the book.
Click to expand...
Do you wanna talk about this on discord? I’ll gladly speak about this on discord with you I don’t want this crt derailed
 
CraigTucker said:
It is the definition of appeal to tradition and I have proven that this instance we're talking isn't the same. So it is. Because you see it organized would mean it isn't buddy open your eyes and face reality
Click to expand...
No that’s not appeal to tradition, need I show what it actually is?


Description: Using historical preferences of the people (tradition), either in general or as specific as the historical preferences of a single individual, as evidence that the historical preference is correct. Traditions are often passed from generation to generation with no other explanation besides, “this is the way it has always been done”—which is not a reason, it is an absence of a reason.

Logical Forms:

We have been doing X for generations.

Therefore, we should keep doing X.



Our ancestors thought X was right.

Therefore, X is right.

Example #1:

Dave: For five generations, the men in our family went to Stanford and became doctors, while the women got married and raised children. Therefore, it is my duty to become a doctor.

Kaitlin: Do you want to become a doctor?

Dave: It doesn’t matter -- it is our family tradition. Who am I to break it?

Explanation: Just as it takes people to start traditions, it takes people to end them. A tradition is not a reason for action -- it is like watching the same movie over and over again but never asking why you should keep watching it.

Example #2:

Marriage has traditionally been between a man and a woman; therefore, gay marriage should not be allowed.

Explanation: Very often traditions stem from religious and/or archaic beliefs, and until people question the logic and reasoning behind such traditions, people who are negatively affected by such traditions will continue to suffer. Just because it was acceptable in past cultures and times, does not mean it is acceptable today. Think racism, sexism, slavery, and corporal punishment.

Exception: Victimless traditions that are preserved for the sake of preserving the traditions themselves do not require any other reason.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

Appeal to Tradition

Using historical preferences of the people (tradition), either in general or as specific as the historical preferences of a single individual, as evidence that the historical preference is correct. Traditions are often passed from generation to generation with no other explanation besides...
www.logicallyfallacious.com www.logicallyfallacious.com

I mean you haven’t shown proof they are fake. These are subtitles in the animation, they are also scans of a manga.

Dragon ball fans are more known for this type of thing than zastando is and no one points that out.
 
godofice said:
Do you wanna talk about this on discord? I’ll gladly speak about this on discord with you I don’t want this crt derailed
Click to expand...
The crt seems to be on track. The crt is about the COT and we are talking about the COT also I haven’t quite gotten to using discord yet. I still have to make my account. Not sure I even want to do discord, I heard it can get quite toxic.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
No that’s not appeal to tradition, need I show what it actually is?


Description: Using historical preferences of the people (tradition), either in general or as specific as the historical preferences of a single individual, as evidence that the historical preference is correct. Traditions are often passed from generation to generation with no other explanation besides, “this is the way it has always been done”—which is not a reason, it is an absence of a reason.

Logical Forms:

We have been doing X for generations.

Therefore, we should keep doing X.



Our ancestors thought X was right.

Therefore, X is right.

Example #1:

Dave: For five generations, the men in our family went to Stanford and became doctors, while the women got married and raised children. Therefore, it is my duty to become a doctor.

Kaitlin: Do you want to become a doctor?

Dave: It doesn’t matter -- it is our family tradition. Who am I to break it?

Explanation: Just as it takes people to start traditions, it takes people to end them. A tradition is not a reason for action -- it is like watching the same movie over and over again but never asking why you should keep watching it.

Example #2:

Marriage has traditionally been between a man and a woman; therefore, gay marriage should not be allowed.

Explanation: Very often traditions stem from religious and/or archaic beliefs, and until people question the logic and reasoning behind such traditions, people who are negatively affected by such traditions will continue to suffer. Just because it was acceptable in past cultures and times, does not mean it is acceptable today. Think racism, sexism, slavery, and corporal punishment.

Exception: Victimless traditions that are preserved for the sake of preserving the traditions themselves do not require any other reason.

www.logicallyfallacious.com

Appeal to Tradition

Using historical preferences of the people (tradition), either in general or as specific as the historical preferences of a single individual, as evidence that the historical preference is correct. Traditions are often passed from generation to generation with no other explanation besides...
www.logicallyfallacious.com www.logicallyfallacious.com

I mean you haven’t shown proof they are fake. These are subtitles in the animation, they are also scans of a manga.

Dragon ball fans are more known for this type of thing than zastando is and no one points that out.
Click to expand...

Now this is giving vibes that your either zastando alt or simply one of his goons

Yea and that's what you're doing here buddy, it always been use for this thus it should be, which isn't and I proved it already and I didnt said they were fake, just warn about him. And DB Fans in the discussion is irrelevant
 
CraigTucker said:
Now this is giving vibes that your either zastando alt or simply one of his goons

Yea and that's what you're doing here buddy, it always been use for this thus it should be, which isn't and I proved it already and I didnt said they were fake, just warn about him. And DB Fans in the discussion is irrelevant
Click to expand...
Chill out I’m no zastando alt. I don’t even agree with most of his claims, I find some of his methods for his scaling goony but frankly his dragon ball arguments aren’t so bad and that’s evident by you having a hard time rebuking it going to the lengths of accusing me of being him because you can’t debunk it.

You said zastando is known for making fake translations and that his scans should be taken with a big grain of salt implying you think his arguments are based on fake scans. How are they irrelevant to this discussion? The scans that show “transcending time” and “beyond spacetime” is hyperbole directly compares to the scans being used here. It’s grice’s razor.
 
Last edited:
ThatBusyDude said:
Chill out I’m no zastando alt. I don’t even agree with most of his claims, I find some of his methods for his scaling goony but frankly his dragon ball arguments aren’t so bad and that’s evident by you having a hard time rebuking it going to the lengths of accusing me of being him because you can’t debunk it.

You said zastando is known for making fake translations and that his scans should be taken with a big grain of salt implying you think his arguments are based on fake scans. How are they irrelevant to this discussion? The scans that show “transcending time” and “beyond spacetime” is hyperbole directly compares to the scans being used here. It’s grices razor.
Click to expand...

When I mean by you being a zastando alt was more of a joke ptsd because my history with him. thats what you believe lmao

Because i was replaying towards what you said about big grain of salt as more as joke. Because nobody besides you brought them up.

And again still appeal to tradition. ******* 4D mind hax bitch
 
CraigTucker said:
When I mean by you being a zastando alt was more of a joke ptsd because my history with him. thats what you believe lmao

Because i was replaying towards what you said about big grain of salt as more as joke. Because nobody besides you brought them up.

And again still appeal to tradition. ******* 4D mind hax bitch
Click to expand...
Okay.

Okay.

So now you’re going to insult me? Regardless that still doesn’t change that it isn’t appeal to tradition. It’s Occam’s razor.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
Okay.

Okay.

So now you’re going to insult me? Regardless that still doesn’t change that it isn’t appeal to tradition. It’s Occam’s razor.
Click to expand...
I am not insulting you, I making memes and it still doesn't address it not being appeal to tradition since I already address so again Mind hax. and also You're using grices razor to elminate the explanation that it refer to higher dimension I directly prove in this case there is a transcendence, meanwhile all you do is just using previous statements and their context and apply it to them. But if you haven't notice, even if you do it, it doesn't affect the point I prove a transcendence by proving the verse being 5D thanks to the tiering system
 
CraigTucker said:
I am not insulting you, I making memes and it still doesn't address it not being appeal to tradition since I already address so again Mind hax. and also You're using grices razor to elminate the explanation that it refer to higher dimension I directly prove in this case there is a transcendence, meanwhile all you do is just using previous statements and their context and apply it to them. But if you haven't notice, even if you do it, it doesn't affect the point I prove a transcendence by proving the verse being 5D thanks to the tiering system
Click to expand...
It doesn’t refer to a higher dimension they never meant a higher dimension. The actual mods haven’t accepted dragon ball heroes being low 1-C and they know the tiering system more than you.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
It doesn’t refer to a higher dimension they never meant a higher dimension. The actual mods haven’t accepted dragon ball heroes being low 1-C and they know the tiering system more than you.
Click to expand...
Ok and? As we said we are waiting for a mod to give there feedback someone who has better knowledge about the tiering system than all of us and so them not accepting low 1-C before is irreleveant. That's like saying because we never accepted Low 1-C sonic before it would dismiss it not being higher dimensional lmao
 
CraigTucker said:
Ok and? As we said we are waiting for a mod to give there feedback someone who has better knowledge about the tiering system than all of us and so them not accepting low 1-C before is irreleveant. That's like saying because we never accepted Low 1-C sonic before it would dismiss it not being higher dimensional lmao
Click to expand...
But the thing is (and this isn’t really relevant to the discussion) higher dimensions and higher dimensional beings were mentioned in Sonic whether it be through material or author statements meanwhile I would be more inclined to say DBH was 5D if an author or writer mentioned higher dimensions in the series but again we’ll just wait and see from Ultima.
 
ThatBusyDude said:
But the thing is (and this isn’t really relevant to the discussion) higher dimensions and higher dimensional beings were mentioned in Sonic whether it be through material or author statements meanwhile I would be more inclined to say DBH was 5D if an author or writer mentioned higher dimensions in the series but again we’ll just wait and see from Ultima.
Click to expand...
Lmao I could explain the problem with 5D sonic but you wanna discuss it in Discord
 
Looking at the OP, I think "possibly" Low 1-C works. The Fu transcending time statement doesn't mean much in my honest opinion as I don't think it's referring to beyond the 4-D space-time continuum. But most of everything else looks possible.

Please note that I'm not well versed in DBH or Tier 1 stuff. This is just my own thoughts on the matter since I know staff input is non existent to low at best so I'm just adding my 2 cents.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Looking at the OP, I think "possibly" Low 1-C works. The Fu transcending time statement doesn't mean much in my honest opinion as I don't think it's referring to beyond the 4-D space-time continuum. But most of everything else looks possible.

Please note that I'm not well versed in DBH or Tier 1 stuff. This is just my own thoughts on the matter since I know staff input is non existent to low at best so I'm just adding my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
Can I kiss you rn
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Looking at the OP, I think "possibly" Low 1-C works. The Fu transcending time statement doesn't mean much in my honest opinion as I don't think it's referring to beyond the 4-D space-time continuum. But most of everything else looks possible.

Please note that I'm not well versed in DBH or Tier 1 stuff. This is just my own thoughts on the matter since I know staff input is non existent to low at best so I'm just adding my 2 cents.
Click to expand...
This is more acceptable than a solid low 1-C rating as I don’t think it’s concrete enough to get that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

TheGodOfICE777
  • Locked
DB Games: Ziku
2 3
Replies
88
Views
9K
LephyrTheRevanchist
LephyrTheRevanchist
Dagoth_OwO
  • Locked
Quick Universe Tree fix
Replies
17
Views
1K
Dagoth_OwO
Dagoth_OwO
Vietthai96
  • Locked
Dragon Ball some more additions
2
Replies
43
Views
5K
AwkguyDB
AwkguyDB
Dagoth_OwO
  • Locked
Time Power additions
2
Replies
61
Views
5K
Vietthai96
Vietthai96
DRW001
  • Locked
GER - Non-existent interaction and Pseudo NEP (Nature Type 1, Aspect Types 1, 3 and 5) (staff votes pls)
2
Replies
64
Views
5K
DRW001
DRW001
Back
Top