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Dragon Ball Heroes: Cosmological Review

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Providing an outside perspective here, as I am not familiar with the series very much.

Irineu said:
Towa mentions that the crack of time is the space that contains and separates the dimensions, that is, basically an upper space that contains 4-D structures, and they see these same structures as finite from the perspective of Crack of time.
Click to expand...
There needs to be some scans that support this. The scan simply says "the space between dimensions" but none of this stuff about 4-D structure or a finite perception, or containing the dimensions.

Irineu said:
And as we know, the dimension of time from the perspective of Crack of time, it is finite and three-dimensional.
Click to expand...
Do we know that?
Irineu said:
Even the destruction of a 2-A multiverse, still no crack of time damage was mentioned or visually demonstrated.
Click to expand...
Okay. What is this meant to be demonstrating?
Irineu said:
The crack of time, in addition to transcending space and time, also contains all the infinite stories that exist and do not exist, in the form of small crystals..
Click to expand...
These scans do not say what you are saying they say.

Irineu said:
In all the dbh media that Crack of time appears, the stories/space-time in Crack of time's perspective are finite and three-dimensional, having a varied size, but visually the size of buildings and others even smaller than ordinary humans.
Click to expand...
Do we have any statements about what these crystals are?

Irineu said:
In big bang mission, the cover of chapter 14 cites the fight as: "battle of the hyperdimension". the phrase is a little ambiguous, meaning that it is a battle with hyperdimensional proportions, or that it is a battle that takes place in the hyperdimension, which would make sense, since the confrontations were taking place in the crack of time.
Click to expand...

What is a hyper-dimension?

Overall, I really just don't see the evidence for like, 95% of what is being claimed here. I don't know if it's true or not, but if it is, it needs to be supported through evidence.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Irineu literally the scan that says nothing else remains tells me otherwise that the crack of time would’ve been affected too, especially coming from a demon who knows enough about the crack of time. So yeah I don’t see any evidence the crack of time being unaffected, the burden of proof is on you.
Click to expand...
he was literally referring to the multiverse. even because the mechikabura's feat is literally absorbing time from the multiverse. you can't just include the crcak of time like that if it's made clear that it's not part of multiverse time. And the one who said that nothing was left was the Chamel and did not demigrate. unlike demigra, chamel does not have this knowledge about the crack of time. and it's up to you to prove that she was affected, as I showed visual evidence that she wasn't. you just stated that by chamel's statement you were also referring to crcak of time, and so i'm just asking for the proofs for that.
 
Irineu said:
it's up to you to prove that she was affected, as I showed visual evidence that she wasn't. you just stated that by chamel's statement you were also referring to crcak of time, and so i'm just asking for the proofs for that.
Click to expand...
Even if the crack of time was unaffected, that wouldn't make it scale higher, it could simply be out of the range of the destructive feat.
 
Reiner said:
Yes, FAQ regarding 2-A section doesn't explains much about what to do in case of "Larger than 2-A" but if you'll look over other parts of FAQ, you'll see that bigger than 2-A structure or countable infinite, by default equates to higher Tier. Uncountable infinite very definition is that it's bigger than countable infinite.
Click to expand...
I was thinking because there was a realm that wasn't affected by the multiverses destruction thus the narrative of the story treats it as separate from the multiverse. Making it a superior range feat. That was my train of thought.

Edit: unless context states it was spared for X-reason
 
Last edited:
Deagonx said:
Deve haver algumas varreduras que suportem isso. A varredura simplesmente diz "o espaço entre as dimensões", mas nada disso sobre a estrutura 4-D ou uma percepção finita, ou contendo as dimensões.


Do we know that?

Okay. What is this meant to be demonstrating?

These scans do not say what you are saying they say.


Do we have any statements about what these crystals are?



What is a hyper-dimension?

Overall, I really just don't see the evidence for like, 95% of what is being claimed here. I don't know if it's true or not, but if it is, it needs to be supported through evidence.
Click to expand...
It's in the post. basically, these crystals floating around in the time rift are the multiverse, and from the time rift's perspective, they are finite and sometimes even smaller human beings.



that even a 2-A range is nothing for a crack of time.

In the scans I show that all the stories and stories that don't exist are in the crack of time. She transcends spacetime is in the previous scans.

yes, it's the stories/worlds. there is also a statement in Xenoverse where it says that all eras connect, but unfortunately I don't have the scan right now.

commonly used in fiction as a higher dimension. In that case, it would be larger than the dimensions of the multiverse.
 
While I personally agree with Low 1-C CoT, it's been discussed so many times that I'm just tired of doing it for the billionth time so I'll say a few things and then dip

Mechikabura's feat more than likely affected the CoT aswell. It's made pretty clear that everything was gone, and Chamel is indeed aware of the CoT (The Demigra army's base, which Chamel is a part of, is in the CoT). Not that this really matters since there's the other stuff for it being beyond the reach of the multiverse and all.
 
Irineu said:
It's in the post. basically, these crystals floating around in the time rift are the multiverse, and from the time rift's perspective, they are finite and sometimes even smaller human beings.



that even a 2-A range is nothing for a crack of time.

In the scans I show that all the stories and stories that don't exist are in the crack of time. She transcends spacetime is in the previous scans.

yes, it's the stories/worlds. there is also a statement in Xenoverse where it says that all eras connect, but unfortunately I don't have the scan right now.

commonly used in fiction as a higher dimension. In that case, it would be larger than the dimensions of the multiverse.
Click to expand...

Are they simply "rifts" as in portals or actually universes? That makes a huge difference here.
 
Irineu said:
It's in the post. basically, these crystals floating around in the time rift are the multiverse, and from the time rift's perspective, they are finite and sometimes even smaller human beings.
Click to expand...
How are you supposing they are finite? Because they are represented in these objects? Could they not be portals or susbtantiations of the universes? Is there some evidence that people on this plane can treat the universes like small objects?

Irineu said:
In the scans I show that all the stories and stories that don't exist are in the crack of time. She transcends spacetime is in the previous scans.
Click to expand...
This scan doesn't show that at all. Which quote do you believe proves that?
 
Deagonx said:
Even if the crack of time was unaffected, that wouldn't make it scale higher, it could simply be out of the range of the destructive feat.
Click to expand...
yes, this is an additional argument of mine. Even a 2-A range is nothing for the Crack of Time. this is due to the fact of transcendence over the multiverse.
 
Deagonx said:
How are you supposing they are finite? Because they are represented in these objects? Could they not be portals or susbtantiations of the universes? Is there some evidence that people on this plane can treat the universes like small objects?


This scan doesn't show that at all. Which quote do you believe proves that?
Click to expand...
because we see that they are finite and small from the perspective of people who are inside the crack of time. And no, they are not portals, they are just the stories seen from the crack of time. Yes, Fu held his universe while on the crack of time. when we fight in crcak of time, our fighters are visually bigger than a story.

This distorted ball is the universe of Fu created in Crack of time.
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
What evidence is there supporting this?
Click to expand...
Chronoa states that if a story is distorted too much, it will break, and in the image we see a crystal breaking. not to mention that in Xenoverse, when a timeline was destroyed, the crystal was broken. And in the manga, Fu shatters space-time, and by doing that we can see the outside of a story, which are the crystals.
 
That's not how burden of proof works dude, you need to prove that the Crack of Time was unaffected at all for this "supporting evidence" to go through in the first place, and going through the scan for Mechi, nothing about it remotely implies the crack of time is unfazed by this, so again this argument doesn't hold ground for tier 1, then again this is just a nothing argument as it neither supports or detracts from this argument in the first place.

Your argument with Fu making a universe visually is inconsistent as with his feat of making a universe in the palm of his hand, it looks nothing like a crystal unless all of the crystals in the crack of time started off like this.
 
Irineu said:
Chronoa states that if a story is distorted too much, it will break, and in the image we see a crystal breaking. not to mention that in Xenoverse, when a timeline was destroyed, the crystal was broken. And in the manga, Fu shatters space-time, and by doing that we can see the outside of a story, which are the crystals.
Click to expand...

Im sorry my guy.. id like to help but.. these don't seem to be universes going by the wiki's guidelines on universes. These seem more like portals that allow you to only see events going on in that universe.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Nierre said:
my god what is with these dragonball cosmology revisions. We already have so many literally for each iteration: DBGT, DBZ/Super, and now Heroes
Click to expand...
Ben 10 on the other hands is in graves got Low 1C after 100 years and a Downgrade thread is made to cope already.
20230117_131431.jpg
 
Theglassman12 said:
That's not how burden of proof works dude, you need to prove that the Crack of Time was unaffected at all for this "supporting evidence" to go through in the first place, and going through the scan for Mechi, nothing about it remotely implies the crack of time is unfazed by this, so again this argument doesn't hold ground for tier 1, then again this is just a nothing argument as it neither supports or detracts from this argument in the first place.

Your argument with Fu making a universe visually is inconsistent as with his feat of making a universe in the palm of his hand, it looks nothing like a crystal unless all of the crystals in the crack of time started off like this.
Click to expand...
Dude, there's no way I can prove with quotes what didn't happen. Crack of time was never cited as being affected, but it was also never stated that it was unaffected. To say that she was affected is to take that fact to the side of absurdity. We must always consider the simplest premises rather than the most absurd ones. And anyway, even if he absorbed CoT, that wouldn't be an anti-feat, but just a low 1-C range for mechikabura, given CoT's clear Transcendence over the multiverse.

Dude, the universe is not a story story. This sphere that Fu is holding is a universe from the universe tree; a universe that is born naturally, that is, a universe similar to universe 7 (in fact, it is literally a copy of universe 7). The stories are the temporal lines, that is, the set of universes of a temporal line. And another, this argument is flawed, as it literally wouldn't change my argument at all. Since this universe is also a spacetime of its own. Whether or not he looks like a crystal doesn't change literally anything.
 
TheUnshakableOne said:
Im sorry my guy.. id like to help but.. these don't seem to be universes going by the wiki's guidelines on universes. These seem more like portals that allow you to only see events going on in that universe.

vsbattles.fandom.com

Universe

The Universe is all of space and time and their contents, including planets, stars, galaxies, all forms of matter and energy. Due to the unknown spatial size of the universe, we use the size of the observable universe as a baseline for universal feats. The observable universe is currently...
vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Crystals are literally a timeline. This link has scans and explanations on the subject.

In all manga, crystals were never portrayed as portals we use to view the multiverse. In fact, in some games and manga, crystals are just floating objects with different colors that cannot be used for anything.

You are probably confusing the stories with the shards of the stories, which actually allows you to visualize the events and even teleport to other eras.
 
godofice said:
I agree plus this scan makes people think it’s saying Demigra is beyond space and time by its referring to them fighting Demigra in the crack of time which is beyond space and time https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1030333659309424660/1030334788680286328/image0.jpg (not sure if you used this scan but it’s more context added on)
Click to expand...
Btw this scan shows that the crack of time is beyond space and time as well as even more proof it transcends space and time and has transcedence over the infinite timelines
 
@Irineu You literally have a demon who's fully aware of what the crack of time due to his boss being locked away in there for a long time say nothing else exists, that's the proof, the fact you cannot prove it wasn't affected just shows a concession in this point as you don't have the evidence that's the case to begin with. Ok so this entire thing being Low 1-C is heavily reliant on the fact the Crack of Time is accepted to be on that level in the first place, which it lacks.

What part of it being a story has anything to do with my point? The crystals aren't remotely treated as literal timelines, and we have a visual showcase on how a universe looks compared to a timeline so it's not consistent at all, so yes it does change literally anything in this context because that's not even what universes/timelines are, and again if these crystals are actual timelines, which Demigra was locked away, and his whole thing was to nuke the worlds so he can rewrite it in his own image, why would he need to go through the time nest to destroy everything as opposed to destroying the crystals when he can do it in his own prison? It brings up more questions than answers.
 
Is it possible to confirm if the thread in question is based on visual interpretation?
 
ImmortalDread said:
Is it possible to confirm if the thread in question is based on visual interpretation?
Click to expand...
  • Representing timelines as small objects for visualization purposes isn't a tierable feat unless we get further elaboration as to their nature. It'd at the very most just mean the Crack is larger than the multiverse to an unknown.
According to Planck
The CoT would be a structure just vastly bigger than the Multiverse to an unknown extent and others seems to agree with that Ig
 
Can you confirm if the multiverse in question is classified as 2-A?
And if the "CoT" is larger in size, this would be considered low 1-C
 
ImmortalDread said:
Can you confirm if the multiverse in question is classified as 2-A?
Click to expand...
Yup
Pretty sure it’s already been accepted as of 2-A
ImmortalDread said:
And if the "CoT" is larger in size, this would be considered low 1-C
Click to expand...
Like I said, I wanna know what the oppositions arguments against this is cause I’m not sure what it is. The CoT is a space that is larger in size and can easily contain 2-A structures and completely dwarf it at the same time plus is referred to as a Super Dimensional Space

Everyone who disagrees with the OP seems to agree with planks points thou
That being
  • The Crack of Time is demonstrably not a spatiotemporal dimension so it being separate from the time dimension wouldn't mean anything.
  • Being "beyond space and time" doesn't mean anything without context and in this case largely seems to refer to just being outside of them.
  • Being called super-dimensional and hyper-dimensional are similarly pointless in a setting where universe and dimension can be used interchangeably.
  • Representing timelines as small objects for visualization purposes isn't a tierable feat unless we get further elaboration as to their nature. It'd at the very most just mean the Crack is larger than the multiverse to an unknown.
 
Theglassman12 said:
@Irineu You literally have a demon who's fully aware of what the crack of time due to his boss being locked away in there for a long time say nothing else exists, that's the proof, the fact you cannot prove it wasn't affected just shows a concession in this point as you don't have the evidence that's the case to begin with. Ok so this entire thing being Low 1-C is heavily reliant on the fact the Crack of Time is accepted to be on that level in the first place, which it lacks.

What part of it being a story has anything to do with my point? The crystals aren't remotely treated as literal timelines, and we have a visual showcase on how a universe looks compared to a timeline so it's not consistent at all, so yes it does change literally anything in this context because that's not even what universes/timelines are, and again if these crystals are actual timelines, which Demigra was locked away, and his whole thing was to nuke the worlds so he can rewrite it in his own image, why would he need to go through the time nest to destroy everything as opposed to destroying the crystals when he can do it in his own prison? It brings up more questions than answers.
Click to expand...
man, the one who got stuck in crack of time for 75 million was demigra and not Chamel. claiming that chamel has the same knowledge as demigra about crack of time is pure headcanon. the only demons that were trapped in the crack of time were the mechikabura, demigra and the inhabitants of the demon realm temporarily. the only way to prove that the crack of time was affected by the mechikabura, is if we take into account that the demigra's castle was also absorbed, this is located in the CoT. But that's just guesswork, as we've never seen her affected. outside this argument, outside failed to prove that the CoT was affected. you are just implying that Crack of time by any statement. but that's ok, I can agree that it was affected by @Dagoth_OwO's arguments.

you literally compared the shape of a universe to that of a timeline. obviously both will not have the same format. Yes, they are often depicted as timelines, I literally was discussing that above. either, just read what's in that link and you'll see they're both the same thing. I already said not to compare the format of a universe with that of a timeline. the 2 obviously won't have the same format. Yes, it is very consistent due to the fact that spacetime is nothing for the crack of time. maybe he doesn't have that destructive range, obviously the demigra in Xenoverse was literally getting toki toki to use his powers and create a multiverse. in Xenoverse 1 demigra does not have the power to destroy the entire multiverse without creating a chain effect. dude, you know the crack of time is literally bigger than the entire multiverse, right? they could destroy some crack of time worlds, but never destroy all of them. Fu always managed to break the space-time of these worlds in the crack of time. demigra probably could, but if he didn't it's pure script. Also, why would he destroy the multiverse if his goal was to absorb the toki toki that was in one of those worlds.
 
Idk which oppositions, it is blatant that a structure that is larger in size than a 2-A structure is low 1-C
 
ImmortalDread said:
Idk which oppositions, it is blatant that a structure that is larger in size than a 2-A structure is low 1-C
Click to expand...
According to Planck
It seems you can have a Space larger, containing and dwarfing 2-A structures and that space not be Low 1-C so idk
 
I guess that makes sense, it’s just bigger with your description not really a transcendence
Ss3micah said:
According to Planck
It seems you can have a Space larger, containing and dwarfing 2-A structures and that space not be Low 1-C so idk
Click to expand...
 
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