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Dragon Ball Cosmology Canon

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For those who have fallen off the wagon and don't know what I'm proposing, here it is accepted that the cosmology is composite, as having material from other spinoffs such as Trunks' timeline existing in the same multiverse canon as the franchise, i'm just justifying it for the toei to continue being used as evidence for cosmology


vsbattles.com

A major update to Dragon Ball timelines

Is 'Dragon Ball GT' canon or not? Aired from 1996 to 1997, 'Dragon Ball GT' (from Grand Touring) was originally the sequel to 'Z'. However, unlike its predecessor anime, it was a completely original story at the initiative of Toei Animation, which was not based on Akira Toriyama's manga. It is...
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vsbattles.com

Dragon Ball Z movies timelines

Akira says that the films are continuations of the original in a parallel way. A message from Akira Toriyama-sensei My sincerest gratitude to all those who purchased this Dragon Ball Movie DVD Box! With these films, the Dragon Box series finally comes to an end. In most cases with...
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This is just a justification for cosmology to be composed even more, something that we accept, if you disagree with this you will have to create a crt to decompose cosmology, because we accept all materials created by Akira Toriyama being canon for cosmology, we are not making a profile fusion.
 
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Vietthai96 said:
One of the worst way to express the intention of CRT, and people thinking that OP try to make anime and manga canon while in reality it is just adding supporting evidences for the fact that cosmology is shared, composited
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yes this is what Luffy said
"i'm even saying that all the material in the Dragon Ball Z anime is canon to the main one, this original story and complements all of Akira's original work"
 
I'm pretty torn. But I don't really agree with merging the Toei canon with the original manga and by extension assuming that Dragon Ball GT is the eventual sequel to Dragon Ball Super. There are far too many contradictions and directions with the filler stuff basically getting retconned by future things introduced in Dragon Ball Super. Not to mention that fact that Super Kaioken existed in the Toei version when SSB Kaioken was confirmed that Goku couldn't merge SSJ and Kaioken together due to it requiring immense levels of Ki control beyond Goku's control. And the reason he could stack it with SSB is because using Godly Ki also increased Goku's ability to control his Ki.

Likewise, Frieza having his own personal space in HFIL contradicts him just being in a regular HFIL and I'm sure he'd be more of a threat in GT given the Super connections. And the Toei Anime was clearly set up to have Dragon Ball GT be its eventual sequel and same thing cannot be said for the original manga or Super. Bardock the Father of Goku also strongly contradicts what happens in Dragon Ball Super: Broly and the list goes on.

I agreed with using Toriyama's guide book to give Universe 7's overall size to 2-C and by extension the size of the other 11 universes. Which also should be its size in pretty much all continuities of Dragon Ball, but that doesn't mean all of them sharing the same timeline. Though both are sort of canon to the extended multiverse of Xenoverse and Heroes as two of the infinite timelines throughout.
 
Robo432343 said:
yes this is what Luffy said
"i'm even saying that all the material in the Dragon Ball Z anime is canon to the main one, this original story and complements all of Akira's original work"
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Yes, i said that, but I'm not saying that we're going to do a profile fusion, but rather that we're adding that to cosmology, you could have read it the first time I said it to Damage.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm pretty torn. But I don't really agree with merging the Toei canon with the original manga and by extension assuming that Dragon Ball GT is the eventual sequel to Dragon Ball Super. There are far too many contradictions and directions with the filler stuff basically getting retconned by future things introduced in Dragon Ball Super. Not to mention that fact that Super Kaioken existed in the Toei version when SSB Kaioken was confirmed that Goku couldn't merge SSJ and Kaioken together due to it requiring immense levels of Ki control beyond Goku's control. And the reason he could stack it with SSB is because using Godly Ki also increased Goku's ability to control his Ki.

Likewise, Frieza having his own personal space in HFIL contradicts him just being in a regular HFIL and I'm sure he'd be more of a threat in GT given the Super connections. And the Toei Anime was clearly set up to have Dragon Ball GT be its eventual sequel and same thing cannot be said for the original manga or Super. Bardock the Father of Goku also strongly contradicts what happens in Dragon Ball Super: Broly and the list goes on.

I agreed with using Toriyama's guide book to give Universe 7's overall size to 2-C and by extension the size of the other 11 universes. Which also should be its size in pretty much all continuities of Dragon Ball, but that doesn't mean all of them sharing the same timeline. Though both are sort of canon to the extended multiverse of Xenoverse and Heroes as two of the infinite timelines throughout.
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Bro, we're not doing a fusion, but we're going to use evidence for cosmology purposes, like the fillers being created by Akira Toriyama's idea, this is just another justification
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I'm pretty torn. But I don't really agree with merging the Toei canon with the original manga and by extension assuming that Dragon Ball GT is the eventual sequel to Dragon Ball Super. There are far too many contradictions and directions with the filler stuff basically getting retconned by future things introduced in Dragon Ball Super. Not to mention that fact that Super Kaioken existed in the Toei version when SSB Kaioken was confirmed that Goku couldn't merge SSJ and Kaioken together due to it requiring immense levels of Ki control beyond Goku's control. And the reason he could stack it with SSB is because using Godly Ki also increased Goku's ability to control his Ki.
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Nobody’s arguing for this. We’re merely saying the elements of the anime should be usuable.
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I agreed with using Toriyama's guide book to give Universe 7's overall size to 2-C and by extension the size of the other 11 universes. Which also should be its size in pretty much all continuities of Dragon Ball, but that doesn't mean all of them sharing the same timeline. Though both are sort of canon to the extended multiverse of Xenoverse and Heroes as two of the infinite timelines throughout.
Click to expand...
We’re pretty much doing this, we ARE not arguing it’s all in a single timeline. We’re substantiating the fact that the daizenshuu and other guides tell us Toriyama was responsible for anime concepts. Those concepts that were intended for the anime coming alive and introduced to the manga. Things such as the macrocosm map being in the guides and in the DBS manga. Also, Grand Kai who was intended for the anime and ended up canon to the manga.

We’re arguing we should be able to use ELEMENTS from the anime that aren’t contradictory and complement the series, as stated by daizenshuu and other guides on Toriyama’s involvement. We are not arguing it’s all one timeline. I think that fact was heavily misunderstood, so I think that should clear it up.

You can think of how we’re suggesting this similarly to how we treat DBZ Kakarot. We accept the elements but we’re not saying all the events are 1:1.
 
I would also like to point out I was put into the agree section for commending Luffy on his hard work, which I like to do with many CRTs even if I have no idea on the content because hard work and time should be acknowledged.

That being said, GIVEN the fact the cosmologies are already composited, I don’t have a problem with adding this evidence as supporting evidence to whatever blog was written to support the initial CRTs.

that being said, I’m not keen on the cosmology being composited, I think Toei have a knack for hyper inflating everything they touch to near fan fiction levels across many of their adaptations.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
it could've also just been retconned

It's clear what version of Bardock this is


It doesn't even match up with super Bardock, so it's a clear retcon from DBS
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It is a retcon. Toriyama said (1) he (2) had implemented them as it occurred into his story/canon, but this was very clearly changed with the advent of DBM and DBS.

I know for a fact he even says it a third time, but I can’t find the Kanzenshuu interview and VS Wiki’s Search Function (because I know it was stated with all 3 links sources in DBS Discussion 100) sucks and I can’t find it.
 
Nierre said:
english pls
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Translation:
This is not to put anyone down, I apologize in advance if I made you believe that, but.... Seriously, the only argument for disagreeing with CRT is misunderstanding the OP's intentions. For those who think the OP is proposing the anime to be canon to the manga, scratch that idea. That was never the OP's intention, it just adds additional evidence for the composite cosmology we use today. For those who say no, have you been keeping up with the database updates? Or have you taken the trouble to read the cosmological blog on the DB page profile? Because honestly no mention is noticeable.
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I agree with this ctr.
And please, for anyone that thinks this is an attempt at making anime and manga stories Canon to each other, it's not. This ctr is to only add more proof of thier shared cosmology [which is already accepted]
 
Damage3245 said:
You can put me and the other staff members who have disagreed in the Disagree section, please.
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Hasn't your distorted opinion changed? Just to let you know, this won't affect anything, because this has already been accepted years ago, this is just another justification, i will only post those who comment and understand what i say, i already added you as disagree, the others will have to comment again, because there was a misunderstanding due to your distorted comment here.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Hasn't your distorted opinion changed? Just to let you know, this won't affect anything, because this has already been accepted years ago, this is just another justification, i will only post those who comment and understand what i say, i already added you as disagree, the others will have to comment again, because there was a misunderstanding due to your distorted comment here.
Click to expand...
As far as I can recall I don't think I agreed with the composited cosmology in the first place; DeagonX and I were going to make a thread several months ago to address it but lost track of time and forgot about it.
 
Damage3245 said:
As far as I can recall I don't think I agreed with the composited cosmology in the first place; DeagonX and I were going to make a thread several months ago to address it but lost track of time and forgot about it.
Click to expand...
Okay, so you can do a separate crt, this one is another justification, do you still disagree?
 
OblivionCiffer2202 said:
And Bardock matters, why...? Why are they talking about him? That just derails the CRT.
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Because if one of the pieces of evidence used for making the events of the anime canon to the manga is due to Bardock's cameo in Frieza's recollection and Toriyama's involvement with the OVA, then I don't think it should be used since the History of Bardock has long since been retconned with Minus and DBS.

I'd just delete that part and leave everything else tbh
 
Let's not take away evidence because you disagree, all the events of the Granola arc showing Bardock take place before Freeza destroys the planet Vegeta, things like Bardock going against Freeza still happen in the movie Dragon Ball Super Broly, where we can see a lot of Freeza's soldiers who were fighting against Bardock and even Bardock attacking Freeza's attack.



What i mean, they both adapted Bardock perfectly, but Akira Toriyama worked together to make things more solid, I'm not trying to make Bardock Super merge with Toei, just that it is full evidence that Akira Toriyama works together with anime directors.
 
LuffyRuffy46307 said:
Let's not take away evidence because you disagree, all the events of the Granola arc showing Bardock take place before Freeza destroys the planet Vegeta, things like Bardock going against Freeza still happen in the movie Dragon Ball Super Broly, where we can see a lot of Freeza's soldiers who were fighting against Bardock and even Bardock attacking Freeza's attack.



What i mean, they both adapted Bardock perfectly, but Akira Toriyama worked together to make things more solid, I'm not trying to make Bardock Super merge with Toei, just that it is full evidence that Akira Toriyama works together with anime directors.
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Okay, this is substantially better evidence than what was provided in the OP so I suppose I can accept the Bardock point for now.

Anyways just put me on neutral for now then, because if the CRT is just supplementary evidence for accepted material then I don't really have much stakes in whether or not it gets accepted or not anymore.
 
I don't mean to pry, but I gotta say this. Staff members are supposed to evaluate evidence based on if what's presented is consistent and reliable,not on personal beliefs.

To be clearer : "I disagree because this makes my potential downgrade thread harder to do" is already something that should raise a lot of questions, even if it's coming from a blue member.

But coming from staff members, it's even worse. A CRT being disagreed upon because this is inconvenient for the person at hand, while completely disregarding if the evidence is reliable, consistent ecc. Is not acceptable when coming from someone who has voting power.

This is staff we're talking about. it shouldn't be made so obvious. at least have some professionalism.

This is an indexing wiki based on scrutiny. If y'all wanna share or write down your personal beliefs/scaling without any of these "complications", there's CSAP for that.
 
Ottavio_Merluzzo said:
To be clearer : "I disagree because this makes my potential downgrade thread harder to do" is already something that should raise a lot of questions, even if it's coming from a blue member.
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I don't think anyone here said that.

All of my original comments in the first page of the thread were responding to the contents of the OP.
 
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