Dragon Ball Cosmology Canon

[LordDestroit10K]

Speaking of Daizenshuu, I think it's worth mentioning that things that only appeared in anime are included in DB's Daizenshuus.

Of course, but the exclusive anime things are in Daizenshuu 3 and 5 (and in the Daizenshuu 7 dictionary), but here you have Toriyama saying that the cosmology map was made for the anime staff, and this map is the same one that appears later in the manga and guidebooks. It’s an example of Toriyama’s intervention in the anime that was canon for the manga. The same for Grand Kaio, who is a character that Toriyama created for the anime and still appears mentioned in the manga by Piccolo when he meets Shin and in the manga guidebooks.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

That's over 10 agreements in less than 3 hours, this is why Staff agreement needs to be prioritized. Motivated and organized fans would be able to approve anything they want otherwise.

I disagree for Damage's reason

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

That's over 10 agreements in less than 3 hours, this is why Staff agreement needs to be prioritized. Motivated and organized fans would be able to approve anything they want otherwise.

I disagree for Damage's reason

I will count your vote

 

[LordDestroit10K]

Here is a small list of Toriyama's contributions to the anime, anyway I would have to read again Chozenshuu 2 and 3 to get more things out but I think that with everything that Luffy contributed to this thread it’s no longer necessary. This should be approved and closed.

Animation Production Guide | Toriyama's Contributions to the Anime

A listing and analysis of original manga author Akira Toriyama's various contributions to the Dragon Ball anime and movie adaptations

www.kanzenshuu.com

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

Here is a small list of Toriyama's contributions to the anime, anyway I would have to read again Chozenshuu 2 and 3 to get more things out but I think that with everything that Luffy contributed to this thread it’s no longer necessary. This should be approved and closed.

Animation Production Guide | Toriyama's Contributions to the Anime

A listing and analysis of original manga author Akira Toriyama's various contributions to the Dragon Ball anime and movie adaptations

www.kanzenshuu.com

We need two more votes

 

[Cass5373]

I don't understand how you can disagree with this thread but well...Battle vs

 

[ChoursDropoff]

No, I don't believe that purely anime-original concepts should be extrapolated back to being canon in the manga.

Toriyama himself said that the stories in the anime were canon though he may not have helped with them all.

 

[Omegabronic]

Toriyama himself said that the stories in the anime were canon though he may not have helped with them all.

....why are you using the French version instead of the original japanese? also, the Anime being canon to the Manga is a simple no, events wise at least, where are the Mr.Satan squad during the Cell games in the manga? nowhere to be seen even tho they were prominent in the Anime

 

[Ryzen7900X]

That's over 10 agreements in less than 3 hours, this is why Staff agreement needs to be prioritized. Motivated and organized fans would be able to approve anything they want otherwise.

I disagree for Damage's reason

A complete staff bureaucracy/monopoly on what gets passed and what doesnt is just as flawed if not more. I've read dragon ball threads from 2017-21, total nightmare

 

[Cass5373]

The opinions of a few have more value than those of the majority, even when there is a clear bias.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

....why are you using the French version instead of the original japanese? also, the Anime being canon to the Manga is a simple no, events wise at least, where are the Mr.Satan squad during the Cell games in the manga? nowhere to be seen even tho they were prominent in the Anime

We are talking about cosmology, Omega and not the fusion between both media, please don't make my crt have 500 pages.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

....why are you using the French version instead of the original japanese? also, the Anime being canon to the Manga is a simple no, events wise at least, where are the Mr.Satan squad during the Cell games in the manga? nowhere to be seen even tho they were prominent in the Anime

Hence why he said the anime added things to the manga just couldn’t go over. And the original.

And I see no issue in using a localization of the manga unless there’s major contradiction in the mangas.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Toriyama himself said that the stories in the anime were canon though he may not have helped with them all.

Common ahh mistranslation. He says to enjoy both "the anime and the manga".

You guys are COMPILING 2018 ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED ALREADY.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

That's over 10 agreements in less than 3 hours, this is why Staff agreement needs to be prioritized. Motivated and organized fans would be able to approve anything they want otherwise.

I disagree for Damage's reason

To be fair staff aren’t infallible they’re just as capable of being incorrect as the rest of us.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

A complete staff bureaucracy/monopoly on what gets passed and what doesnt is just as flawed if not more. I've read dragon ball threads from 2017-21, total nightmare

Okay. Let fans decide.
A YouTuber thinks Goku is City level, sends his fans over to the forum, Goku is now City level regardless of validity of arguments.


No, while I think Staff decision alone isn't valid, democracy isn't the way to go for that very reason. The majority can simply be composed of ignorants (not this case, btw, just an example)

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

To be fair staff aren’t infallible they’re just as capable of being incorrect as the rest of us.

Never claimed otherwise. But you guys have the numbers on your side and that's easy to weaponize. Not allowing this is better.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Common ahh mistranslation. He says to enjoy both "the anime and the manga".

You guys are COMPILING 2018 ARGUMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN DEBUNKED ALREADY.

Then do you have the original? Because what he said was pretty blatant. He wasn’t talking about his enjoyment. He was addressing the audience questions about the differences between the two continuity’s.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

Never claimed otherwise. But you guys have the numbers on your side and that's easy to weaponize. Not allowing this is better.

Same can literally be said other way around but whatever I guess.

 

[Deagonx]

I share Damage's view on this. This is not a sufficient basis for concluding all of the anime material is canon.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

This is my tribute to the passing of the great Akira Toriyama

I feel like this is a little insensitive and could be taken as trying to guilt trip any potential opposition but I won't assume your intentions were nefarious.

 

[Omegabronic]

Hence why he said the anime added things to the manga just couldn’t go over. And the original.

......that doesn't cover my point at all, it is factually a fact that the manga had different events happening from the anime in the same arcs, thus they can't be canon to one another as the events were different

And I see no issue in using a localization of the manga unless there’s major contradiction in the mangas.

that is a manga? regardless, how can we know if it is accurate or contradictory without having the original, just show the original and translate it, there's no harm right?

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I share Damage's view on this. This is not a sufficient basis for concluding all of the anime material is canon.

In your opinion, this is already accepted, it is just another justification.

 

[ChoursDropoff]

I share Damage's view on this. This is not a sufficient basis for concluding all of the anime material is canon.

I mean DBS Broly happened in the anime and then was in the manga and so was cell max/superhero material.

 

[Omegabronic]

In your opinion, this is already accepted, it is just another justification.

the shared cosmology is, because these arguments in specific aren't

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

the shared cosmology is, because these arguments in specific aren't

It is already composed for the right reasons, just a justification, Omega, if you have nothing to add to this crt, could you stop commenting here

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

the shared cosmology is, because these arguments in specific aren't

In your opinion, this is already accepted, it is just another justification.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I mean DBS Broly happened in the anime and then was in the manga and so was cell max/superhero material.

They were adapted.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't think this works for making all the Toei stuff canon, as Damage has highlighted. I'm also not very big on bringing up Toriyama's passing here, it comes off as an attempt to guilt trip the opposition into agreeing, even if that's not the intention.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

I don't think this works for making all the Toei stuff canon, as Damage has highlighted. I'm also not very big on bringing up Toriyama's passing here, it comes off as an attempt to guilt trip the opposition into agreeing, even if that's not the intention.

In fact, this is a justification for adding to the multiverse, mention of Damage does not correspond to anything here, in fact the filler itself is canon, it is just an additional justification, we are not adding the toei to the manga as having done there, we are just adding the cosmology plus Akira toriyama stuff.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I understand what the aim is. I still disagree

 

[LordDestroit10K]

I understand what the aim is. I still disagree

Why? This thread is only a little justification to something that it’s approved in this wiki…

 

[Robo432343]

it’s approved in this wiki…

its not tho

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

It's so hopeful to see the (more established) DB supporters being reasonable.


If you think about it, OP is making a list of Akira being involved in the productions of the show. Or validating these other medias as "Dragon Ball"


This, however, is not definitive evidence that these separate media have canonical elements that are present in the manga, but just never been shown

In fact, that's counterintuitive, if he wants to inform something is canonical in his original work, why wouldn't he include references to these instances in said original work?

This comes from a misinterpretation of the evidence presented, I'll break them down

• Akira Toriyama is involved in the productions of the anime

Okay.

This is absolutely meaningless for the argument OP is trying to make

Just because the author is involved with adaptations of their work, that doesn't, shouldn't, and wouldn't mean that said adaptation is canon, much less have canonical elements. Case in point, Akira said the anime is a different world than the manga. He can add stuff to that particular world without affecting his original work.

• Akira supports and validates the anime version

That's marketing for you baby. All he did was say both anime and manga are valid ways to enjoy the story. This means freaking NOTHING when it comes to deciding what's canon or not. He just said that both products are still in the spirits of Dragon Ball and what it stands for.

What else was there? Nothing?

All the evidence supported these two particular points, which are empty caskets that don't amount to nothing. Leaving the compiled evidence as nothing more than a leg for table that could never hold the weight of what it wanted to prove.

I disagree.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

It's so hopeful to see the (more established) DB supporters being reasonable.


If you think about it, OP is making a list of Akira being involved in the productions of the show. Or validating these other medias as "Dragon Ball"


This, however, is not definitive evidence that these separate media have canonical elements that are present in the manga, but just never been shown

In fact, that's counterintuitive, if he wants to inform something is canonical in his original work, why wouldn't he include references to these instances in said original work?

This comes from a misinterpretation of the evidence presented, I'll break them down

• Akira Toriyama is involved in the productions of the anime

Okay.

This is absolutely meaningless for the argument OP is trying to make

Just because the author is involved with adaptations of their work, that doesn't, shouldn't, and wouldn't mean that said adaptation is canon, much less have canonical elements. Case in point, Akira said the anime is a different world than the manga. He can add stuff to that particular world without affecting his original work.

• Akira supports and validates the anime version

That's marketing for you baby. All he did was say both anime and manga are valid ways to enjoy the story. This means freaking NOTHING when it comes to deciding what's canon or not. He just said that both products are still in the spirits of Dragon Ball and what it stands for.

What else was there? Nothing?

All the evidence supported these two particular points, which are empty caskets that don't amount to nothing. Leaving the compiled evidence as nothing more than a leg for table that could never hold the weight of what it wanted to prove.

I disagree.

I already added you, no need to clog my crt with your random messages.

 

[Robo432343]

I already added you, no need to clog my crt with your random messages.

they're not random messages
its called exploiting the flaws in your argument

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

they're not random messages
its called exploiting the flaws in your argument

I'm not seeing any flaws.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Agree: @ProfectusInfinity, @ChoursDropoff , @RenderGK, @XxZetsuxX,@Killerdrone123 ,@LordDestroit10K ,@TheGodOfICE777,@Gamin_Yoon23 , @OblivionCiffer2202[/USER,@AizenBankai09,@TiltedFN, @speedster352,@Hasty12345, @Cass5373,@pineappleman, @CaveGamist, @RenderGK, @Ryzen7900X,@Phsccarvalho, @CloverDragon03

I don't get why people do this. It makes it seem like there's a lotta people in agreement, when it's just randoms with no voting rights 99% of the time.

Like, no disrespect, but this thread right now only has one staff voting against and it makes it seem like it's a landslide

 

[Robo432343]

Like, no disrespect, but this thread right now only has one staff voting against and it makes it seem like it's a landslide

2 staff with voting rights disagree so far
@Damage3245 and @Deagonx

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don't get why people do this. It makes it seem like there's a lotta people in agreement, when it's just randoms with no voting rights 99% of the time.

Like, no disrespect, but this thread right now only has one staff voting against and it makes it seem like it's a landslide

Two staff are against it, actually. Deagon said he shares Damage's sentiments.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I'm not seeing any flaws.

Luffy, If you ignore the counterarguments for you thread, this revision not gonna get accepted, because staff will most likely disagree.

Like, you can ignore, i just advising for you to no do It.