Dragon Ball AP Ratings Upgrade

[Ednaxel2]

This doesn't need bumping until the thread for Frieza's AP is resolved.

Guess you could say we had to wait since last year

Anyways since this new calculation for Frieza's feat has been accepted so I'll implement the new values

 

[Ednaxel2]

Updated Dragon Ball AP Ratings

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's also now the first message

 

[Ednaxel2]

Or whatever you call the first message in a thread cause idk if there's a term for it or not

 

[Damage3245]

I'm still voting against scaling Kaioken x10 Goku to Second Form Frieza but rest of the updated values from First Form Frieza onwards look fine.

 

[Omegabronic]

Or whatever you call the first message in a thread cause idk if there's a term for it or not

OP/Original Post

 

[Omegabronic]

Or whatever you call the first message in a thread cause idk if there's a term for it or not

as of this thread Super Perfect Cell doesn't scale to his Solar Kamehameha with his normal stats anymore, so that should be noted in his part of the scaling

the same logic would apply to SSJ2 Gohan tho, but Null said earlier in this thread that he would still scale to his kamehameha with his normal stats, dunno why but ok

 

[Spinoirr]

Updated Dragon Ball AP Ratings

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's also now the first message

Yeah, no I'm against the freiza downscaling

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I said what.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I've got one, too.

Updated Dragon Ball AP Blog

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordTracer]

What do y'all think of the idea that post-ToP Base Goku > Early ToP SSB Goku?

Early ToP SSB Goku is portrayed to be relative to Android 17. Android 17 has infinite stamina and therefore his power remains the same throughout the tournament. Tired out drained Base Goku and Base Frieza at the end of the tournament are portrayed as relative to that Android 17.

This isn’t the thread for that.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Wait, wait, FOREVER implies that Piccolo Jr. Saga Goku and Raditz Saga Goku are equal (or, at the very least, comparable) in power, and that the difference between the latter and King Piccolo Saga Goku is nearly two-times, which means that King Piccolo-tier characters downscale from 101.892607 Yottatons.

 

[Omegabronic]

I said what.

don't tell me i confused people again

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

I noticed a small discrepancy in the scaling chain provided.

• Post-RoSaT training Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Potential Unleashed Gohan is superior - 52.65 MegaFoe (Solar System level)
• Super Buu is around the same level as Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, latter absorbing him adding his power to his own, and latter absorbs Gohan becoming even stronger - 105.3 MegaFoe (Solar System level)

Shouldn't he be 157.95 MegaFoe since he added both Ssj3 Gotenks and Gohan to his own strength?

 

[Crobatman44]

I noticed a small discrepancy in the scaling chain provided.

• Post-RoSaT training Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, Potential Unleashed Gohan is superior - 52.65 MegaFoe (Solar System level)
• Super Buu is around the same level as Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, latter absorbing him adding his power to his own, and latter absorbs Gohan becoming even stronger - 105.3 MegaFoe (Solar System level)

Shouldn't he be 157.95 MegaFoe since he added both Ssj3 Gotenks and Gohan to his own strength?

Gotenks fusion run out,literally a plot point.

 

[FuriousFieryFist]

Gotenks fusion run out,literally a plot point.

Doesn't seem like that applies if he absorbs them before they defuse and adds their power to his own.

 

[Veronica]

Gotenks fusion run out,literally a plot point.

Aren't they the combinated power of all of them

 

[Crobatman44]

Doesn't seem like that applies if he absorbs them before they defuse and adds their power to his own.

Aren't they the combinated power of all of them

Can someone grab the dbz chapter 308 page?
Edit: for any confusion it's chapter 502 of dragon ball overall,chapter 308 of the DBZ portion, "will the Potara prevail" (i suck at images)

 

[Omegabronic]

Doesn't seem like that applies if he absorbs them before they defuse and adds their power to his own.

When the fusion ran out he lost power

 

[Crobatman44]

This is such a dumb way to do it but my PFP and banner is the page now.
Edit:will revert this now that tracer has posted the stuff,thanks for freeing me from this hell.

 

[LordTracer]

Doesn't seem like that applies if he absorbs them before they defuse and adds their power to his own.

He very clearly lost power when Gotenks defused.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Wait, wait, FOREVER implies that Piccolo Jr. Saga Goku and Raditz Saga Goku are equal (or, at the very least, comparable) in power, and that the difference between the latter and King Piccolo Saga Goku is nearly two-times, which means that King Piccolo-tier characters downscale from 101.892607 Yottatons.

Were they drunk? What's next? Buu is 10 times stronger than Bactirian? Beerus is 3 times stronger than kid buu?

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I'm still voting against scaling Kaioken x10 Goku to Second Form Frieza but rest of the updated values from First Form Frieza onwards look fine.

This would need it's own CRT though, let's avoid commenting on it

 

[Damage3245]

This would need it's own CRT though, let's avoid commenting on it

I forgot that was already something on the profiles. I'll make a CRT sometime soon to address that.

 

[LordTracer]

Updated Dragon Ball AP Ratings

vsbattles.fandom.com

It's also now the first message

Forgot to mention, this looks good to me for now. I’m also kinda iffy on the KKx10 Goku scaling, but I’ll wait until Damage makes a thread about it.

 

[Veronica]

Forgot to mention, this looks good to me for now. I’m also kinda iffy on the KKx10 Goku scaling, but I’ll wait until Damage makes a thread about it.

Well, it isn't that Goku got 20x Physically stronger, but his KI and his control.

 

[ArcaneAbyss]

Well, it isn't that Goku got 20x Physically stronger, but his KI and his control.

If his ki went up 20x, this strength would do the same, as would his other statistics

 

[LordTracer]

Well, it isn't that Goku got 20x Physically stronger, but his KI and his control.

Okay…? I don’t see how that has anything to do with what I said.

 

[Damage3245]

Forgot to mention, this looks good to me for now. I’m also kinda iffy on the KKx10 Goku scaling, but I’ll wait until Damage makes a thread about it.

Thread going up tomorrow for it.

 

[Crobatman44]

Well, it isn't that Goku got 20x Physically stronger, but his KI and his control.

Pretty certain tracer is reffering to the scaling Namek/Ginyu Saga Goku KK x10 to Second form Frieza stuff.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Can Supreme Kai scaling to Cell Games Goku work or nah? iicr this was declined in a thread, I'll also implament the SSJ2 multiplier of 20x SSJ used here

OP/Original Post

thank you

Wait, wait, FOREVER implies that Piccolo Jr. Saga Goku and Raditz Saga Goku are equal (or, at the very least, comparable) in power, and that the difference between the latter and King Piccolo Saga Goku is nearly two-times, which means that King Piccolo-tier characters downscale from 101.892607 Yottatons.

Goku likely got a zenkai before the 2x training seeing that Piccolo got "several times stronger" but even then at worst Piccolo would just scale 10x weaker (the most several times could mean) to Beginning of Z Goku which would still make him Large Planet level (13.5856809911 Yottatons), makes it more iffy that we cam downscale from Friezas feat all the way from the Frieza saga to King Piccolo Saga

Well, it isn't that Goku got 20x Physically stronger, but his KI and his control.

If his Ki goes up then his strength goes up too

 

[Ednaxel2]

Doesn't seem like that applies if he absorbs them before they defuse and adds their power to his own.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Going over @Nullflowerblush's scaling chain blog

Fusing with Nail multiplied Piccolo's strength tenfold. >40.757043 Ronnatons

Why use the Kakarot video game and not the El Manga Legendario?

At 50%, Frieza blocks the Kaio-ken x20 Kamehameha. >8.1514086 Quettatons
At 100% Full Power, his full strength is revealed. >16.3028172 Quettatons

It makes more sense for 100% Frieza to scale closer to SSJ Goku than it does for 50% Frieza scaling to KKx20 Goku, when Goku launched his KKx20 Kamehameha it's shown and outright stated that it did barely any damage, meanwhile 100% Frieza is even able to fly though the kamehameha and was able to do significant damage, something Goku with KKx20 never accomplished

In SSJ, Gohan far eclipses Goku in strength. >4075.7043 Quettatons
Even restrained, Cell far surpasses the Z-Fighters. >1.70531561 Foe

Why is Cell 10x stronger than Gohan here?

By amplifying all of his available energy, Vegeta unleashed his final, most powerful attack—the Final Explosion—ultimately taking his own life. >2.106 KiloFOE
In spite of Vegeta's best efforts, Majin Buu survived the Final Explosion. >2.106 KiloFOE

Buu surviving the explosion doesn't mean he scales to it, he was in many many pieces and only survived due to his regeneration

 

[Padaruyos]

This isn’t the thread for that.

Sorry I mistakenly posted this here instead of the general discussion thread, I'll delete it.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Thread going up tomorrow for it.

I'll be there. I'm obviously in agreement with the Kkx10 scaling.

 

[Ednaxel2]

Should the 20x increase for Kid Goku apply to him after defeating Tao Pai Pai or during the 22nd Budokai? Cause if we say it applies to Goku after defeating Tao Pai Pai then the Oozaru downscaling wouldn't make sense as argues for an even weaker Goku being <10x weaker than Post-Korin Training Goku.

 

[Ednaxel2]

I'll go with Tao Pai Pai and get rid of the Oozaru scaling

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Why use the Kakarot video game and not the El Manga Legendario?

In the 40+ years since the franchise began, the Namekian Fusion multiplier has only been mentioned, as far as I know, a total of two times; once in the El Manga Legendario, which is attached to an advert for a Piccolo figurine, and again in Kakarot, a game with direct involvement from Toriyama, which is explicit.

Why is Cell 10x stronger than Gohan here?

Whoops.
Was doing old scaling.

Buu surviving the explosion doesn't mean he scales to it, he was in many many pieces and only survived due to his regeneration

That's fair.
Reading up, the Daizenshuu claims that Vegeta "eradicates" Buu so...

Should the 20x increase for Kid Goku apply to him after defeating Tao Pai Pai or during the 22nd Budokai?

what

 

[Ednaxel2]

In the 40+ years since the franchise began, the Namekian Fusion multiplier has only been mentioned, as far as I know, a total of two times; once in the El Manga Legendario, which is attached to an advert for a Piccolo figurine, and again in Kakarot, a game with direct involvement from Toriyama, which is explicit.

It would still nonetheless refer to Piccolo in that part of the saga, but I do wonder if we're gonna use Kakarot should we use it for calculations as well? (it would also also canonize Xenoverse)

what

this statement:
經過龜仙人和貓仙人的訓練後,悟空的實力提升了接近二十倍!"After being trained by the Turtle Hermit and Karin, Goku's power has increased by nearly 20 times!"

Stating Post-Korin Training Goku surpasses his Emperour Pilaf Saga self by 20x

 

[Nullflowerblush]

but I do wonder if we're gonna use Kakarot should we use it for calculations as well?

I don't see why we would.
Toriyama's comment asserts that the additional story content supplements the original canon, rather than stating that the new content supplanting it.

(it would also also canonize Xenoverse)

Low 1-C Buu Saga?

 

[Ednaxel2]

I don't see why we would.
Toriyama's comment asserts that the additional story content supplements the original canon, rather than stating that the new content supplanting it.

What about using the Piccolo moon busting feat as a time frame of how fast his blast was?

Low 1-C Buu Saga?

I meant cosmology scaling, Xenoverse 1 Mira was Buu Saga level not scaling to the infinite timelines and it seems to be before that since iicr Towa and Mira were experimenting and didn't have other characters like Bardock or having Trunks/other time patrollers chasing them