Oh, of course, I agree. If he was getting jumped from every side, he'd stop using only death beam (Tho in Super he did use Death Beams that changed direction against a bunch of assassins). He'd most likely result to AoE after getting hit a lot. Only ones who arguably survive by eluding the attacks is Metal and maybe Mecha. And of course Eggman given he'd be staying far away and has teleportation technology and what not.
Nothing's stopping him. It's just in-character for him to not always starts with huge AoE. In Namek Saga he started with a Death Beam to take out Dende IIRC. And used his Supernova sparcely. in Super, he used Death Beams when being jumped by assassins that changed directions from each of his fingers. In ToP where the main goal is to ring out people, he hardly used AoE. I don't doubt he'd eventually resort to AoE. Just not before being hit a lot. And even then, the more important members worth their salt could escape his AoE attacks.
He doesn't know that the Metal Sonic's have speed amps to avoid all of his attacks. Some of his attacks also need to be charged for a few seconds and the Egg Fleet and Metal Sonics won't just sit there and let him
Does he though? He charges attacks so they're more powerful, but bro doesn't need to do that to wipe out like everything here.
Pretty sure it still takes at least a few seconds for him to make an energy ball big enough to destroy the entire Egg Fleet. Don't see what's stopping the Metal Sonics from just dodging it with speed amps either. They might be the only ones left, but they'd still be there
He's refrained from using AoE as an opening move against people he wants dead before. Goku, assassins (That he killed with death beams), or when he NEEDS to remove as many as possible to survive, such as in ToP where he would've benefited from AoE.
One foe =/= literally a whole armada.
The fact he really doesn't need to? This is RF Freeza, not Freeza in base from namek saga. Even as far back as second form, he casually lit up whole planets with a mere gesture, zero charge required. This Freeza is legitimately totally incomparable to that, or dudes who casually wipe out planets with a flick of the wrist.
Saiyan race ain't really comparable tho considering they weren't jumping them and was only killing them because he feared the Legendary Super Saiyan (and Super Saiyan God if we go by Broly). He didn't want to take the risk.
He literally wanted to make Goku suffer, he was systematically killing people to piss him off for the spirit bomb he took, before that it was an "honor battle".
Ah, forgot about the city nuking in RoF. Been a while since I watched the film. Though tbf, IIRC that was to gather the attention of Goku and his friends since he wanted to make a dramatic entrance, no?
I think if he were jumped by a bunch of Saiyan's before he planned to eradicate them, no, I think he'd Death Beam hordes of them to teach them their place. Similar to when he was targeted by snipers in Broly where they foolishly tried sneak attacking him.
Again, I don't think Freeza WOULDN'T use AoE. I just don't think it'd be in-character for Freeza to open up with AoE immediately when targeted by people. Like the assassins. Regardless of the fact that there was significantly less of them in comparison. I DO think he'd soon use an AoE attack after taking out numerous of them with Death Beams and Melee. Though I don't think he's going to be taking out the important people if he does use AoE given Eggman's teleportation technology, and robots with speed amps that can simply fly away from the AoE. Especially when they'd have prior knowledge of the strength gap.
Is this a vote for Frieza then?
The two scenario's aren't even CLOSE to one another. One is an opponent he's forced in a fight against. One is an entire race under his command that he was afraid would become strong enough to kill him.
Maybe, but I doubt I really need to systematically list every time Freeza nuked a bunch of a dudes. He's up against an ARMADA, he ain't dumb brother, he isn't gonna just pick them off few by few, if Frieza was up against like a few dozen dudes? Yeah sure maybe, but Eggman's army ain' just a few dudes, if he did it the way you're suggesting, he'd be there all day.
That was 3 dudes, something he did, in part, to actually showcase off the Scouters and their ability to pick up PL and locations with precision.
Dude, he isn't targeted by people, eh's targeted by a whole ARMY, at once, with every vehicle, weapon and more pointed at his ass. It isn't like the assassins, it's like the assassins if there was 1,000,000x as many and they brought warships with them too.
I think it'd be exceptionally hard to trap Frieza as he lacks prep and I doubt Frieza is just gonna roll up to him (Are we talking about the opening to Unleashed? If so that definitely isn't happening), as opposed to just nuking wherever he is (Freeza can sense energy in this key, he'd know where Eggman is, especially when he's like the only living thing here minus some literal rodents and birds within some mecha, which would still make him the largest energy signature).
He was barely afraid, it was more just an inkling of doubt and he wanted to be safe. He wasn't terrified, he wasn't "rushing", he was just like "huh, that legend might be an issue if true, better safe than sorry", and then he nuked them all at once.
To be fair, I did suggest that after taking out a few with non-aoe moves, he'd become bored and start AoE'ing them. But yeah. He doesn't have the time to take them all out one by one. Not even close.
I'm not fully opposed to him using AoE. I think he would use it early on here. But I feel the reason he wouldn't use it here is the same reason why he wouldn't use AoE during ToP when his life depended on it and was promised resurrection if he helped them win. He should've had full motive to spam AoE to knock as many people off as possible. But he didn't. I think him starting with AoE is feasible. I just feel weird saying Freeza would start with AoE in-character without a shadow of a doubt.
Nah, the Colors thing is a different key. His ships have tractor beams that can teleport people across the globe. It should be in his Adventure tabber. Given he has a shit ton of ships and bases in space, it'd be pretty reasonable to assume he'd got here quickly given he's aware of the AP discrepancy.
Nah, not opening to Unleashed. More akin to what we see in the Sonic Mania shorts. He just ensnares people in a blue paralyzing power nulling energy barrier. As for energy, same sensing issue as before. It's ki reliant. Unless we energy equalize (Which I don't know if we do since there's no similar energy system that Sonic possesses except maybe Chaos Energy since it sustains life in the universe? But it's not like Eggman has an Emerald on him in this fight).
I suppose. But "being safe" sounds like a generous way to say a deep-rooted fear that it might come back to bite him in the ass.
So why would he waste time and **** around when he wants everyone dead and knows the alternative is a waste of time?
The ToP ain't a good example, he has no idea how strong the vast majority of dudes are (most of which are actually stronger than his base), and he has to conserve energy as well and was even instructed to do iirc, in order to AOE the l of them, he'd have to unleash a blast so strong it would kill the weaker fighters (which is against the rules), etc. There's s many reasons why using AOE at the start of the ToP or out of nowhere is a very bad idea, if only because of rules.
I don't, especially here, the fact he's fighting so many basically forces him to use AOE as a lead. He'd unironically be less likely to if he wasn't so outnumbered.
So he has to tractor beam himself? Before Frieza looks at him funny? That seems pretty difficult ngl.
We don't equalize energy that are different, but that doesn't mean other verses don't get the minimal abstract whatever gets given in verse equalization, it's legitimately no different than how if Dude A with Soul Manip fights Dude B from a verse hat doesn't delve ino souls and stuff, that Dude B would still have a soul for Dude A to manipulate.
it would though? His intellect doesn't matter in this regard when Frieza can just point at him, the planet or whatever space station exists and blow it up without even needing to move.
But it literally was? It only became a fear when it actually happened and he got his own head shoved up his ass. Before that it was just "this could be an issue, may as well snip it in the bud".
It is a strength thing, they usually only send groups of like 3-4 saiyans to conquer a planet. Iirc, saiyans just aren't the family sort or give a shit about relationships so not many actually have kids, Gine is a notable exception.
Because he's a sadistic ****** up person. That's like one of his most defining traits.
He can sense most of their ki to get an idea of what strength they roughly have. He would've been able to take out a lot of cannon fodder with a good AoE without using up much energy. It's not like AoE takes up a shit ton of energy since they get thrown around left and right by other character's as a mere side-effect. Instead he systematically took out most people 1 on 1 (Can't remember if he did the same in the manga. I actually think he did use some AoE in the manga. Or maybe it was Frost? I can't recall).
I don't think he's quite like Jiren where he can do eye blasts, no? And with so many other targets, it'd be unlikely he targets him specifically. Eggman's Egg Mobile also gives him the travel speed to escape an AoE explosion. He has flown into space with it before too IIRC. It shouldn't be so hard considering he'd have a whole army opening fire on him to hold him back for some time too. Also, does Freeza's travel speed scale to his combat speed in this key? Because I know DBZ for whatever reason has their flight speed listed as Supersonic, independent of their combat speed (despite that being absurd, but eh).
It's a case by case basis, and only equalizes two similar energy systems according to the SBA page:
Sonic doesn't have some esoteric life force energy that everyone in the verse has. The only energy system of relevance in Sonic is Chaos Energy, and Eggman doesn't have a Chaos Emerald since that could make this a stomp. So Freeza shouldn't be capable of sensing Eggman. And if for some reason SBA entails that he should, I do think OP should clarify if they wanna equalize or not since it seems weird to give Eggman a life force energy system when Sonic's verse explicitly doesn't have one. Which basically just means giving Eggman a handicap he can't benefit from.
But like, this isn't an equivalent scenario. A more equivalent scenario would be giving someone a soul who explicitly doesn't have a soul according to their own verse for the sake of the soul manipulator. Just seems like a way to handicap the person for the sake of the other person. IIRC, it's stated in the manuals for Triple Trouble or some other game of that vein that the Chaos Emerald sustain life in the universe. It would entail that they don't have some life force similar to Dragon Ball, but one set of objects that sustain all of creation. So maybe you could argue Freeza could sense the Chaos Emeralds (Albeit I doubt it due to how different it is from ki), but would really have to give Eggman a handicap according to SBA? The closest we get to a life force in Sonic is hints at a soul regarding a few certain robots.
Didn't Freeza only ever use that move once throughout all of Dragon Ball? To blow up Krillin, and even then only to upset Dragon Ball? He usually sends a large energy blast instead that could be evaded. Doesn't help that he'd be too busy getting jumped by speed amped Metal Sonic with more and more reinforcements constantly being sent in. Not to mention Eggman's already self constructing armies.
I believe we saw quite a bit in the invasion of Planet Cereal. We also saw a room full of pods with babies who were noteworthy, and that was just the room for important people and not accounting for low-class Saiyans offspring. I don't think it's super exceptional. I'll take your word on the thousands thing though. Though admittedly I don't recall that being stated.
His speed section drops the "At least Supersonic flight speed, X combat speed" for just "Massively FTL+" in this key and onwards, so there's that. But idk for sure, don't scale DB
And he has absolutely no vendetta here and also kills people for wasting his time. Most of what's here ain't even human, they're robots.
Except he knows they hide their strength? He's known that was a thing since Namek. Or maybe they don't and actually are weak? He has no idea how strong anyone actually is, if he kills anyone, oops your whole universe explodes buh bye. Then that also paints a targe on his back too, shit's just a bad idea in the context of that tournament given rules.
Including his teammates like Roshi who is arguably the most fodder person there
He didn't "systematically" take them out 1 by 1, he was picking and choosing who he fought, that isn't the case here because he's fighting he whole army at once and SBA states he wants them dead.
I wasn't talking about literal eye blasts bro... was saying basically anything he does, even a gesture is enough (Look up Frieza second form's first move for a tame example). But yes he can, iirc he used them against Goku twice in base.
That's LITERALLY who he wants dead the most. Reminder he's fighting "Eggman" first and foremost. The army is just a part of his equipment, but the actual dude Frieza is fighting is Eggman.
Homing attacks. from multiple directions, what's stopping Frieza from just doing two ki attacks that home and pincering him?
Frieza literally flexes and obliterates the whole army. They aren't preoccupying Frieza for any length of time unless Freeza wants to be occupied but given there are ten fucktillion of them and he actively wants Eggman dead, yeah sorry lad but I don't see why we're pretending Freeza is gonna **** around like that.
Does it matter? His attacks, combat, reactions and even his burst movement speed is more than enough. He doesn't even need to move from where he is.
Unless Frieza nukes things before he gets to them by just collateral, or singles out Eggman and just nukes him, or if he notices he's ******* off, just throw a few homing attacks to intercept and make it impossible to dodge or any number of easy things.
You're confusing equalizing two separate energy systems to be comparable and giving other verses basic stuff like souls.
Let me make this perfectly clear, do you think if a verse never delves into abstract concepts like souls, characters with soul manip shouldn't be allowed to use soul manip on them? hat's what you're legitimately arguing here.
Not at all, it'd be giving a dude a soul because it's the default assumption. Unless Sonic as a verse explicitly notes ki doesn't exist, or makes mention chaos energy is the only abstract force, then we have zero reason to assume in a verse equalized match that they'd lack something so basic as chi or souls or whatever.
Bruh, I'm talking about literally ANY energy attack. But oh yeah, I forgot he has telekinesis, what's stopping him from just using psychic powers to pop Eggman like a balloon if he tries to escape?
A few dozen doesn't detract from what I said.
Frieza doesn't breathe.
Well, robots with living creatures in them anyway. I agree that he kills people for wasting his time, but that just fits in with him being a sadistic **** like I had claimed earlier. If he melted a Lieutenant for having bad breath, I don't doubt him singling out some people to strike some sense of fear into Eggman before using an AoE to blow most of his stuff away.
I think you misunderstood. I accounted for the fact they could be holding back by suggesting Freeza could simply hold back to the level of the weakest fighters and use AoE to harmless blow them off the arena. If he sensed people and they were weak, he's not going to use an attack with enough force to kill them. I also disagree that he cared about painting a target on his back when he was already picking out fighters individually left and right. And his personality sure didn't help him either since it got him beat up quite a few times.
That seems valid, though it would also just make sense for Freeza to target areas where his teammates aren't. Wouldn't be hard to wipe out cannon fodder with AoE while avoiding teammates when he can sense and see where they are.Including his teammates like Roshi who is arguably the most fodder person there
Might be confusing the manga for the anime here, so my apologies. I do recall him picking off weak people with Frost up until his betrayal.
Ah, my mistake. Was hard to tell since there are a couple characters who actually can use eye blasts like Piccolo and Jiren. Did he use eye blasts against Base Goku? If so I forgot.
I was implying he'd be too busy getting nailed by the robots to focus solely on Eggman. You've got Metal Sonic who has a 346x speed increase that can statue people equal to him in speed on top of a metric shit ton of other militia who will be constantly firing at him. All of which are comparable enough to harm him.
The beams in question should be equal to Eggman's travel speed. All he'd need to do is fly away in a straight line to get out of range. Any curves the beams make to home onto him will just result in them taking a larger distance and thus lag behind something that has equal speed to them. He'd also be a bit caught up with all the robots attacking him simultaneously to fire any meaningful attack at Eggman.
What exactly is the AP gap again for him to be flexing and destroying them? DB pages make it kinda hard to tell what value people scale to. Nor does Freeza actively want Eggman dead. SBA assumes they're in-character and willing to kill. Actually, double-checking it, it just says willing to win. So that's a slight lapse on my part:
Outside of a few games, the robots do have living beings inside of them. Particularly Sonic's small animal friends. I visualize the match in my head and see Freeza taking out a lot of fodder to try and strike a sense of inferiority, or rather fear within Eggman. Though I don't really wanna keep going back and forth on this point since it'll just be ad nauseum back and forth.
Because if Eggman flies away, he won't be able to cover any significant distance to catch up if he has supersonic travel speed. I felt that much would've been obvious. And given Eggman can simply retreat to bases in space and have self assembling armies continue to attack Freeza, having slow travel speed wouldn't be doing Freeza any favors. Especially since it gives Eggman to prepare stuff to fold Freeza more effectively.
With Eggman's travel speed equaling his combat speed and speed being equalized, having a distance gap between them means Eggman can fly away from literally any attack. Whether that be AoE (He can simply fly away from the expansion of the explosion) or homing attack. If two people of equal speed and endurance start running, and one start 5 meters ahead, the person with the 5 meter head start will maintain that gap (Ignoring acceleration of course. But given Eggman's is practically instant, it wouldn't really matter).
I think if a verse never elaborates it's fine to assume they have a soul. But in verses where it's made specifically clear they don't possess a property, then yeah, I think we shouldn't give a characters who are soulless souls for the sake of verse equalization.
Hmmm, I guess that seems fair. I feel it's made clear though that if the Chaos Emeralds stop existing everything in the universe starts dying should be indication that it's the only life force system. Otherwise they would've continued to have life. I will look into specific statements regarding this though since Sonic does have some interesting implications regarding life force and what not.
I think TK is fair. I do recall him using that more often than the Krillin tech or AoE immediately. But it's basically the same stuff I mentioned earlier. Being preoccupied with being attacked and speed blitzed by Metal via amps (I'm not sure if we give Metal Sonic the same AD as Sonic, but if he does, it is a wraps for Freeza since a Metal Sonic on Freeza's level alone would be a GG in Metals' favor).
Of course not, but I also don't know where the statement of the Saiyan race being so incredibly small and basically on the brink of extinction came from. Was it somewhere in Z or something? Super? I genuinely don't remember such a statement. It's been a few months since I consumed DB material.
He does pant when he's tired. Which is just breathing quickly. As does Sonic who can also "breathe" fine in the vacuum of space and was immediately affected. Freeza breathes, but doesn't need to given his self-sustenance covers space and underwater IIRC (I do remember him fighting underwater with Goku in Namek).
Yeah, birds and rats, are things that aren't even worth the time to torture. As far as he's concerned they aren't even sentient. It'd be like tortuing a rock for him.
And how would he know they're weak? Maybe they aren't and are just hiding it? (this was the case with a good chunk of them). Maybe the weakest is actually someone stronger from a pure PL level and by doing an AOE below them all he does is alert the whole tournament to get rid of him.
See above, notwithstanding the weakest person there is his ally.
You just contradicted yourself, he was picking fighters out individually, but so was everyone. That isn't painting a target on his back, it's doing what everyone else is doing. But this isn't even a point of debate we know this paints a target on your back, that being doing huge **** off AOE, as Kale exists, which got a target painted on her back and even alerted Jiren to get her to **** off due o her going wild nuking everything.
His whole team IMMEDIATELY spread out omnidirectionally actually. Everyone went in different directions for the most part. Including himself, he didn't **** around with the earthlings. Bro was legit just biding his time.
Which was just a ploy to get rid of Frost. Who he had a bit of a vendetta against.
Most DBZ dudes have it, even Goku has it
Bro, Frieza can legit flex and obliterate basically anything there. And mind you, "comparable to him", based on what? This Frieza fodderizes Gohan, Piccolo and Gotenks. just because they're the "same" tier does NOT mean they're comparable. Take 9-B for example, the low and high end f it is a 50,000x gap.
Frieza then proceeds to notice he's flying and keeping pace with his beams and says **** it and blows up the whole planet because he's a nuisance.
**** if I know, I'm wondering why Freeza is even High 4-C to begin with given Gohan is 4-B in RoF (who Freeza one shots and cripples).
Yes so? They're small flora and fauna, they aren't even worth his time.
If it's actually elaborated such a thing doesn't exist, like I can think of a few verses where souls and the afterlife do not exist, such as Death Note, then yeah it's fine but if it's just ambiguous, unknown or not touched upon, then the default is they have it.
My brother in christ... You just shot yourself in the foot.
Why? It can sustain life, but it's not the only esoteric life concept. Like souls exist in Sonic do they not? (Which btw, souls are a component of Ki, along with the mind and courage I think?) It's no different how in Zelda the triforce sustains the world, but that doesn't mean there isn't stuff like life force either, it's not inherently one or the other.
You misunderstood, Eggman having knowledge, is a handicap on Frieza. If Eggman wasn't aware of how strong Frieza was, would you really be arguing "oh eggman tries to escape the moment the fight starts so he doesn't instantly lose", of course not. Eggman having prior knowledge is the only thing saving him, as such, it's handicapping Frieza unfairly.
The Krillin tech is TK. Also, he's legitimately used AOE as a lead more than he's used TK.
Somewhere in Super? It definitely isn't from Z, it's post 2010 at least.
He doesn't need to breathe, doesn't mean he can't. And well, he isn't starting this match so...
Not very given Frieza's casual attacks can one-shot RoF Piccolo and RoF SSJ Gohan. I can not stress enough that Eggman is fighting a dude who at a whim could light up everything between Earth and the moon with attacks that annihilate everything they're coming into contact with, they'd be an issue, if they weren't blown away by basically anything Freiza does (for what it's worth, if Freiza wasn't that much stronger, I'd say he'd lose to either one with equal stats).
He wouldn't know they're weak. He would know that it is the minimum safest amount of power to use without killing anyone. But I can agree with the rest.
Can't remember if Roshi was the weakest tbh. There was definitely fodder in the tournament that basically did nothing.
They do? I hardly remember many people using it tbh. And if it's via ki, then it being "weaker" shouldn't be an issue given most Ki attacks scale to one another unless they explicitly power-up or perfect a move that scales way above their physicals. If it's not for that reason, then I'll take your word for it again.
Well we don't know the value Freeza scales to, so I assumed he upscaled from baseline. If values were listed on the page it'd prolly be easier to tell. For an AoE attack, all it takes to evade is away from the expansion. Not to mention athletic characters like Metal scale to Sonic who can react to danmaku bullet hell. I'd agree a lot of Eggman's army can't escape that though.
And the bots worth their salt escape the blast. It wouldn't be hard for someone like Metal Sonic to just fly away from the expansion of the Planet's destruction at all. Then they could go back to wailing on Freeza again. If Freeza just spams AoE attacks, they'd simply end up wasting their ki. Tiring themself.
Maybe it got left behind after a CRT? Only thing that'd explain it.
Except Eggman's travel speed isn't billions of times slower tho? He IS billions of times slower on foot. But standard equipment is Egg Mobile which has Travel Speed equal to Eggman's combat speed. Hell, the thing kept up with Super Sonic flying across nebula's. Eggman would of course start in the Egg Mobile given almost every time we see him outside his own base he's in it. The "Superhuman" or whatever rating is in reference to when he's running. But it's alright to make that mistake since I don't think there's links in the profile for those instances. Though admittedly it is weird to give Eggman "Superhuman speed" for outrunning Sonic with a head-start. So yeah, he'd be able to flee quite easily.
If it isn't the only thing that keeps things living, then the Emeralds disappearing shouldn't result in everything in the universe dying is what I was getting at. And kinda? Maybe? I think hell and heaven are implied to exist in some sense. There are ghost fights. Tikal seems to be some weird astral apparition? There's soul gauges within the Arabian Nights book IIRC that uses "Soul power". But I can't say there's ever an explicit statement of a soul existing in Sonic or anything.
To be fair, I think even without prior knowledge he wouldn't rush in. He tends to have his robot slaves do the work for him. I think prep just lets him know to use incap options faster.
I think Eggman would realistically retreat if his army was being wiped out regardless. I would say the intell does let him know that pure brute force isn't the way to go.
TK + Ki explosion stuff. Not just TK. Similar to Vegeta's dirty fireworks.
I'll see if I can find something regarding it. Do you remember if it was in the anime or manga?
Okay? Confused about the point here. Freeza doesn't need to breath, but he does. Seen when he pants in the series. Said sleepy gas also causes Sonic to pass out despite also being able to survive in space just fine. I don't know if the gas needs to enter the lungs. I think just entering the body will suffice.
See Kale, see Roshi, see way too many variables, risk of death, etc, there's legitimately multiple in-universe reasons why he wouldn't, the fact we're still on this is baffling.
He was, he had to make up for it with skill and hax. I think Krillin might have been second weakest too? Or at least bottom few.
Yeah? They do, explicitly, Goku for example used it when making Vegeta's grave on Namek. And why are you telling me this? I don't make the rules, the attack just isn't that strong compared to others.
We don't know the value he scales too, but we know what values he doesn't scale too. he's stronger than Piccolo, Tagoma and SSJ1 Gohan, the weakest person here alone is within the foe range (Even back in Buu Saga Piccolo was around 1 foe). Assuming Gohan's base and Piccolo in RoF were about even, that'd make SSJ1 Gohan like 50foe due to SSJ multipliers, and Frieza can one shot him. Tagoma could fight SSJ1 Gotens too iirc.
Yeah no, you don't understand, it's not "an" AOE attack, it's "however many Frieza wants". If he throws like ten planet-sized explosions, or a hundred, where are they going to dodge? It's not danmaku with gaps, it's danmaku with explosions so huge that they overlap and they can't move anywhere without flying through said blasts.
Yeah sorry lad, but where does it say he starts in a vehicle? He doesn't, he starts on foot just like literally any other character in a match. He has that stuff in his equipment yes, but where does it say he starts in it? By your logic he starts in everything at once because it's his standard equipment.
Soul Power, aka a thing that isn't Chaos Energy. Good enough to show that Chaos Energy isn't the only abstract power source. And yes, everything you just mentioned would be evidence for souls existing.
He doesn't get prep, he just knows. And the only reason this is even a debate is because of the argument Eggman pisses off immediately if he didn't he'd be taken out by any attack immediately.
He would be part of what gets wiped out if he didn't retreat right away. Why do you keep acting like Frieza is killing everything BUT the dude he's supposed to kill.
Basically everything ever is Ki, thought that spoke for itself, a lot of Frieza's TK attacks have Ki built-in, like that lightball attack too.
Manga. I want to say Jaco or Minus but I'm not sure?
The point is Frieza ain' gnna star panting, the literal only time anything even resembling breathing has occured. Something I'd even argue isn't him actually breathig but rather a way to convey bro's just exhausted. In fact, you could argue he's merely exhaling, not inhaling, given we know he doesn't actually need to inhale.
Eggman needs to take like ten extra steps to win. Frieza needs to flex his ki once without ever moving, or just throw a spray of homing ki attacks.
Metal Sonic would be too busy trying to save Eggman from the AOE or multiple homing giga attacks, or the numerous homing attacks with tremendous AOE coming at him from multiple directions because be real, Frieza isn't just gonna stand there and let himself get wailed (That's assuming he could even get close at first, Frieza could use an explosive wave).
Literally doesn't need to breathe.
Yeah hard disagree, you kinda just proved my point, Eggman needs to take all these extra steps to win, while Frieza just needs to flex or wave his hand. With the only argument stopping this is that Frieza just wouldn't do that, despite the fact he's done so before, in situations with even less numbers here.
Well Eggman still has a hax advantage and would probably be one shot by a Frieza that massively upscales from other High 4-C characters so he probably has enough win cons for it to not be considered a stomp even if Frieza gets changed to 4-B
Yeah I'm baffled by that. Also voting Freeza FRA.
Counted. I don't think Frieza being 4-B matters since Eggman's main win condition is his hax, so this match can probably still be added
Something to do with google ads and what not. You can still say **** and won't get in trouble, it's just censored so shit pops up in google searches and can have ads.
A lot more Frieza votes than I thought. Counted
