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Introduction



If you came expecting to see a downgrade for MGK then get rekt.
Well it's not much of a troll considering it's technically a downgrade but not for the cosmology, just a few characters ratings.

In this thread, the MGK verse finally got accepted into tier 1 but with this came Scaling issues born out of certain misconceptions and as such, this current thread is to correct that. What i mean by "issues" is that certain abilities are arbitrarily being scaled to what has been accepted as Low 1-C (5D).

Disclaimer



Please do not use this thread as a means to try to downgrade the verse or debunk already accepted stuff. A separate CRT should be made for that as this is solely a revision for characters tiers.
Scaling Issues


From the Low 1-C thread, the only things that are 5D are things that are capable of affecting the bubble (world). Ordinary objects in deeper layers already scale above bubble worlds so this has nothing to do with the Silver Sea arc onwards and would only handle pre-silver sea events.

Characters notably
Sasha Necron and Misha Necron currently have Low 1-C ratings via (x) ability. They Will be downgraded to 2-A because the ability actually doesn't scale to the bubble. Other characters who will be affected by this include;
Misha and sasha are Low 1-C via <Artieltonoa> and <sargeldonave> because <Artieltonoa> created the world while <Sargeldonave> can destroy it but in truth, these two abilities don't scale to the bubble.

Character Justifications​



Misha and Sasha
Sasha is incapable of destroying eques gears and eques himself once he becomes serious with her "Divine Eyes of Apocalypse" which are <Sargeldonave> projected on her eyes.
She questions how this is possible and anos says only something that can destroy the world like the "Total Solar Eclipse of Apocalypse" <Ain Aiyl Navelva> can harm eques.

Similarly, Misha's version of this is the "Total Lunar Eclipse of Genesis" <Al Ant Etonoa> which is what is actually capable of creating the world not <Artieltonoa>.
She also used this to create the "Demon King's Garden" which allowed Anos to unleash enough power to destroy the world against Eques.

There's enough reason to believe Eques as well was holding back as he says he's the same as Anos, if he doesn't suppress his power, the world will be destroyed.

In conclusion, they are 2-A via <Artieltonoa> & <Sargeldonave>, Low 1-C via <Al Ant Etonoa>, <Ain Ayl Navelva> .

Note: This is only for their AP, their hax still scales to 5D for being able to affect some of Eques gears.

Anos Voldigoad
There aren't any drastic changes for Anos really. Basically the same as Sasha and Misha for his world destroying spells. Also, this only affects his world destroying magic, he still keeps his Low 1-C physicals
  1. Egil Grone Angdroa: Misha was able to create a world which EGA didn't destroy in a bet with anos (though it actually destroyed the world she created, what was left was its fundamental structure). Similar to the reasons above, only abilities capable of destroying the world are Low 1-C. It's already established Misha can't create a Low 1-C world without the eclipse from this scan and as such, anos is capable of restricting EGA to a level where it won't destroy the world. pre-silver sea EGA becomes 2-A up to Low 1-C.
  2. Gilieriam Naviem: Same as EGA. As from anos profile. Its currently Low 1-C for being able to destroy the world but that is with the 7th step. All steps prior are 2-A. Reason for this is the Land of traces, the sanctuary of the god of traces. This realm was destroyed by anos 6th step. Leaving gilieriam naviem as Low 1-C only means this sanctuary enduring prior steps scales to Low 1-C which will just lead to a circular reoccurring scaling chain that'll get to higher tiers based on the "microcosm" statement. Thus pre-silver sea gilieriam naviem= 2-A with 1st to 6th step, Low 1-C with 7th step.
Graham
Unfortunately, graham too gets affected by this. Like prior cases, He's just getting a revision. Going from the scan that gave him a "solid" 2-A rating on his profile for affecting the Land of Traces, he goes back to 2-A.
Additionally, though he absorbed celis power, the celis that was compared to deeper world inhabitants is elenesia world celis not that of the militia world. Celis after his reincarnation got weaker and the only one of his spells that scales to world destruction is <Ravia Neold Galvarizen>. <Ravia Gig Gaverizd> which was affecting the land of traces is only 2-A thus graham is 2-A, Low 1-C via <Ravia Neold Galverizen>.


Lay Glanzudlii
Lay is the only one getting an upgrade. He was able to cut through <Ain Aiyl Navelva>, block attacks from eques. Thus he should get a new key. Azure sky arc= 2-A, likely Low 1-C via "Souji Soai" <La Sensia> (by gathering the feelings of everyone in the world and converting it into magic power, he was able to fight against eques, cut through <Ain Aiyl Navelva>)

Eques
Eques has HDE by being "the world" itself so despite having 2-A AP while holding back, he remains unchanged.

Others
Aisha and Arcana should be downgraded to 2-A they don't have Low 1-C by scaling to any character listed here and neither scale to Anos Low 1-C Physicals.

Edit: Graham remains low 1-C (celis was still able to harm parrignton's doll, which will be amped by his power as a deeper world inhabitant, without using his strongest attack. Thus Graham did absorb Celis Low 1-C AP.)


Agree: (1,11)
@FlugelAlcor @EinelRendezvous @Ottavio_Merluzzo @Dread @Shiraito983 @Rendynoc0unter @Fixxed @Pekarchan @Mizuki67 @Excel616
@EldemadeDityjon @Toby020 @Elizhaa @Overlord_THE_END
Disagree: (0,2)
@Dread (with 2-A Graham), @EldemadeDityjon (with 2-A Graham, Low 1-C lay)
Neutral: (0,0)
 
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This thread is only for Pre-Silver Sea characters.... It's not a downgrade per se but a tier adjustment hahaha. The only thing that changes is that they will have 2-A in that key and the other things remains unchanged... Poor those who thinks this is a downgrade.
 
You manages to nuke them before me... Agree. This what makes me believe they have no capabilities to scaled over a whole cosmology.
No one actually scale above whole cosmology, remind me, but who told you this bullshit? The only person who scales to the cosmology is Anos.
 
This thread is only for Pre-Silver Sea characters.... It's not a downgrade per se but a tier adjustment hahaha. The only thing that changes is that they will have 2-A in that key and the other things remains unchanged... Poor those who thinks this is a downgrade.
Right, I thought it was both Pre-Silver Sea and Silver Sea.
No one actually scale above whole cosmology, remind me, but who told you this bullshit? The only person who scales to the cosmology is Anos.
So do y'all agree?
 
Yeah agree with this, the scalling is my issue for long time ago

I dont know why egil have low 1C rating by default
 
This Thread is Fixxed I guess.
@Tatsumi504 @Dread Fixxed Momento 🦍

Agree with most but Not all for example Graham still scales to deeper layers inhabitants by Celis who cut off Parrington threads. For other things I need to check.
 
Scaling Issues


From the Low 1-C thread, the only things that are 5D are things that are capable of affecting the bubble (world). Ordinary objects in deeper layers already scale above bubble worlds so this has nothing to do with the Silver Sea arc onwards and would only handle pre-silver sea events.

Characters notably
Sasha Necron and Misha Necron currently have Low 1-C ratings via (x) ability. They Will be downgraded to 2-A because the ability actually doesn't scale to the bubble. Other characters who will be affected by this include;
Misha and sasha are Low 1-C via <Artieltonoa> and <sargeldonave> because <Artieltonoa> created the world while <Sargeldonave> can destroy it but in truth, these two abilities don't scale to the bubble.

Character Justifications​



Misha and Sasha
Sasha is incapable of destroying eques gears and eques himself once he becomes serious with her "Divine Eyes of Apocalypse" which are <Sargeldonave> projected on her eyes.
She questions how this is possible and anos says only something that can destroy the world like the "Total Solar Eclipse of Apocalypse" <Ain Aiyl Navelva> can harm eques.

Similarly, Misha's version of this is the "Total Lunar Eclipse of Genesis" <Al Ant Etonoa> which is what is actually capable of creating the world not <Artieltonoa>.
She also used this to create the "Demon King's Garden" which allowed Anos to unleash enough power to destroy the world against Eques.

There's enough reason to believe Eques as well was holding back as he says he's the same as Anos, if he doesn't suppress his power, the world will be destroyed.

In conclusion, they are 2-A via <Artieltonoa> & <Sargeldonave>, Low 1-C via <Al Ant Etonoa>, <Ain Ayl Navelva> .

Note: This is only for their AP, their hax still scales to 5D for being able to affect some of Eques gears.
You should specify this for Aberneyu and Militia Sasha & Misha had Low Complex AP after they got their powers back and They were even able to exert their power in Deeper layers worlds without using deep magic. Sasha literally burned many ships in Balandias. Yeah I would have to disagree with 2A rating
IAnos Voldigoad
There aren't any drastic changes for Anos really. Basically the same as Sasha and Misha for his world destroying spells. Also, this only affects his world destroying magic, he still keeps his Low 1-C physicals
  1. Egil Grone Angdroa: Misha was able to create a world which EGA didn't destroy in a bet with anos (though it actually destroyed the world she created, what was left was its fundamental structure). Similar to the reasons above, only abilities capable of destroying the world are Low 1-C. It's already established Misha can't create a Low 1-C world without the eclipse from this scan and as such, anos is capable of restricting EGA to a level where it won't destroy the world. pre-silver sea EGA becomes 2-A up to Low 1-C.
  2. Gilieriam Naviem: Same as EGA. As from anos profile. Its currently Low 1-C for being able to destroy the world but that is with the 7th step. All steps prior are 2-A. Reason for this is the Land of traces, the sanctuary of the god of traces. This realm was destroyed by anos 6th step. Leaving gilieriam naviem as Low 1-C only means this sanctuary enduring prior steps scales to Low 1-C which will just lead to a circular reoccurring scaling chain that'll get to higher tiers based on the "microcosm" statement. Thus pre-silver sea gilieriam naviem= 2-A with 1st to 6th step, Low 1-C with 7th step.
I guess I am fine with this.
Graham
Unfortunately, graham too gets affected by this. Like prior cases, He's just getting a revision. Going from the scan that gave him a "solid" 2-A rating on his profile for affecting the Land of Traces, he goes back to 2-A.
Additionally, though he absorbed celis power, the celis that was compared to deeper world inhabitants is elenesia world celis not that of the militia world. Celis after his reincarnation got weaker and the only one of his spells that scales to world destruction is <Ravia Neold Galvarizen>. <Ravia Gig Gaverizd> which was affecting the land of traces is only 2-A thus graham is 2-A, Low 1-C via <Ravia Neold Galverizen>.
Disagreeing with Graham has Zero anti feats to put him below low 1C even though i was the one brought the argument of Elenesia world Celis ≠ Militia world Celis. Still Celis from Militia world was able to cut off Parrington threads which should scale him to Low 1C. I don't see why he needs to be downgraded.
Lay Glanzudlii
Lay is the only one getting an upgrade. He was able to cut through <Ain Aiyl Navelva>, block attacks from eques. Thus he should get a new key. Azure sky arc= 2-A, likely Low 1-C via "Souji Soai" <La Sensia> (by gathering the feelings of everyone in the world and converting it into magic power, he was able to fight against eques, cut through <Ain Aiyl Navelva>)
Disagree with Low 1C Lay got trashed by Eques. I don't know why this likely comes from.
Eques
Eques has HDE by being "the world" itself so despite having 2-A AP while holding back, he remains unchanged.
This is wrong. He wasn't In 2A state of holding back. He was the world itself. Heck deeper layers Chief Gods exists inside the bubble and exert thier powers. Eques wasn't even born until Anos pulled him out and bubble was already in layer 1.
Others
Aisha and Arcana should be downgraded to 2-A they don't have Low 1-C by scaling to any character listed here and neither scale to Anos Low 1-C Physicals.

Arcana was able to fight Yzark and take his attacks. He was still had half of his power as Sovereigns. Her rating should remain. As for Aisha I agree remove ti


Anyway I don't know if you will consider my points This is all I have to say except for EGA and 7 steps nirvana. Aisha Downgrade. I disgree with other downgrade
 
This Thread is Fixxed I guess.
@Tatsumi504 @Dread Fixxed Momento 🦍

Agree with most but Not all for example Graham still scales to deeper layers inhabitants by Celis who cut off Parrington threads. For other things I need to check.
Parrington says celis had to brush up that one attack to defeat him, in other words, only <Ravia Neold Garvarizen> scales to deep layer inhabitants or the bubble.
Only anahem has ever come close to matching anos physicals
 
You should specify this for Aberneyu and Militia Sasha & Misha had Low Complex AP after they got their powers back and They were even able to exert their power in Deeper layers worlds without using deep magic. Sasha literally burned many ships in Balandias. Yeah I would have to disagree with 2A rating
This thread is for pre-silver sea key. You can't use a justification from the silver sea arc. Even eleonore and zeshia immediately had low 1-C AP once the arc started and not just any normal low 1-C AP but Equivalent to 21 layers deeper+ against a lion of destruction so i don't see your point🤷🏾‍♂
 
Parrington says celis had to brush up that one attack to defeat him, in other words, only <Ravia Neold Garvarizen> scales to deep layer inhabitants or the bubble.
Only anahem has ever come close to matching anos physicals
Graham after absorbing Celis had more power than the Celis himself. Also Parrington statement doesn't matters the feat literally shows Celis cutting off the thread of Deeper layers.

Also you should re read Chapter 369. Anos was bloodlusted unlike Anaham fight where he says he was thinking something else. Graham was still able to wrestle Anos for some extent
 Graham controlled my fingertips as they were pushed out, and I controlled Graham's fingertips.
 As a result of our mutual checks and balances, the two of us were now in a four-way hand-to-hand combat.
 In the aftermath of the force of our furious pushing, the floor creaked and cracked.
 
This thread is for pre-silver sea key. You can't use a justification from the silver sea arc. Even eleonore and zeshia immediately had low 1-C AP once the arc started and not just any normal low 1-C AP but Equivalent to 21 layers deeper+ against a lion of destruction so i don't see your point🤷🏾‍♂
Completely Wrong Zeshia never had that AP she literally got brushed down by Bobonga in first encounter. She was able to fight him using Deeper layer weapon later onwards.

Anyway I will check the fight again. I am pretty Sure lay is the only one who got trashed by Eques. Even Misha was able to Freeze him for a moment.
 
Disagree with Low 1C Lay got trashed by Eques. I don't know why this likely comes from.
He took attacks from eques and not just fodder attacks like ruptured abyss gear, he blocked boros heteus though only briefly, he didn't get pasted i guess. Even if you don't agree with Low 1-C, he should still get 2-A
This is wrong. He wasn't In 2A state of holding back. He was the world itself. Heck deeper layers Chief Gods exists inside the bubble and exert thier powers. Eques wasn't even born until Anos pulled him out and bubble was already in layer 1.
I said he stays the same. He remains Low 1-C. And the militia world barely has enough fire dew to be considered as a silver bubble in layer 1. They're in between 0 & 1.
Watch me give melheis, Eugo a Low 1-C key the moment it's confirmed they are in layer 1
 
He took attacks from eques and not just fodder attacks like ruptured abyss gear, he blocked boros heteus though only briefly, he didn't get pasted i guess. Even if you don't agree with Low 1-C, he should still get 2-A
More like his root gets sacrificed each time he tanked a hit. Also I agree with 2A. But I don't know Low 1C. Btw you are saying Sasha and Misha shouldn't get Low 1C but Lay can get it 🗿 bruh Sasha and Misha has better feats than lay in Azure sky arc.
 
Graham after absorbing Celis had more power than the Celis himself. Also Parrington statement doesn't matters the feat literally shows Celis cutting off the thread of Deeper layers.

Also you should re read Chapter 369. Anos was bloodlusted unlike Anaham fight where he says he was thinking something else. Graham was still able to wrestle Anos for some extent
Wrestled against anos briefly before he got bent and clapped like a child. Anos says anahem was the first person to overpower him physically, yet we not giving him Low 1-C physicals.

Yes it matters what was said especially since none of his attacks besides <Ravia Neold Galvarizen> can destroy the world.
Elenesia world celis could harm deeper world inhabitants simply by swinging his sword, militia world celis had to prepare 1 specific attack to do so as stated by parrington. There's a huge difference. Besides, this affects only AP not hax.

Also, this is pre-silver sea key only. Silver sea key gets legit Low 1-C. Stop bringing SS feats
Completely Wrong Zeshia never had that AP she literally got brushed down by Bobonga. She was able to fight him using Deeper layer weapon later onwards.

Anyway I will check the fight again. I am pretty Sure lay is the only one who got trashed by Eques. Even Misha was able to Freeze him for a moment.
Countered by zeshia being able to harm the disaster world turtles before her weapon was reforged. It's not the she lacked the AP, her weapon lacked the durability. She could easily break the turtle shells if she used other turtles to do it.

Nope, eques resisted it+ this is hax not AP. Like i said, their hax isn't affected. Every single one of them got shredded by ruptured abyss gear alone not to talk of boros heteus which anos had to stop from reaching the ground cause it'll destroy the world
 
tw you are saying Sasha and Misha shouldn't get Low 1C but Lay can get it 🗿 bruh Sasha and Misha has better feats than lay in Azure sky arc.
Again hax≠ AP. Lay has feats of blocking blows from eques while in <La Sensia> Sasha and Misha don't. Also, lay overpowered <Ain Aiyl Navelva> which has low 1-C AP. The only reason I said "likely" for his rating is cause he couldn't harm eques
 
Wrestled against anos briefly before he got bent and clapped like a child. Anos says anahem was the first person to overpower him physically, yet we not giving him Low 1-C physicals.
Why are you leaving out when Anos was thinking something else.
Yes it matters what was said especially since none of his attacks besides <Ravia Neold Galvarizen> can destroy the world.
Destroying deeper layers worlds doesn't matter AP ≠ size.
Elenesia world celis could harm deeper world inhabitants simply by swinging his sword,
When did this happened? He couldn't harm The cats of deepe layers because of they are non corporal He can only put them down to sleep. I don't see anything happening like that in the series
militia world celis had to prepare 1 specific attack to do so as stated by parrington. There's a huge difference. Besides, this affects only AP not hax.
He created that using possibilities. He didn't kept it from the beginning.
Also, this is pre-silver sea key only. Silver sea key gets legit Low 1-C. Stop bringing SS feats
When did I bring Silver Sea feats for Graham?
Countered by zeshia being able to harm the disaster world turtles before her weapon was reforged. It's not the she lacked the AP, her weapon lacked the durability. She could easily break the turtle shells if she used other turtles to do it.
Both are kinda same though 🤷 my point she wasn't able to harm deeper layers inhabitants before getting a deeper layers weapons.
 
Why are you leaving out when Anos was thinking something else.
Thinking something else means nothing for a guy who can simultaneously perform 100 parallel thoughts.
Anahem physically overpowers anos (though anos clapped him immediately after), not just once, he dies, gets buffed, does it again. Nobody has feats of brute force against anos that can match Anahem. It's even worse in graham's case cause by this point, anos was struggling (clearly playing around) to lift continents.
When did this happened? He couldn't harm The cats of deepe layers because of they are non corporal He can only put them down to sleep. I don't see anything happening like that in the series
When they had possessed demons from elenesia. Luna says he can't harm them (demon's bodies) because the cats are from deeper layers.
Destroying deeper layers worlds doesn't matter AP ≠ size.
Who's talking about size? If i wanted to bring size into this, I'd mention how it destroyed a country🗿. Militia world celis≠ elenesia celis. Elenesia celis is far stronger.
 
Again hax≠ AP. Lay has feats of blocking blows from eques while in <La Sensia> Sasha and Misha don't. Also, lay overpowered <Ain Aiyl Navelva> which has low 1-C AP. The only reason I said "likely" for his rating is cause he couldn't harm eques
 
 The moment she was distracted by it-

 A <Rupture Deficient Gear Abyss> flying from another direction hit her directly and sliced her whole body.-

...... and ............

 The <Bolos Heteus>, an old wood cutting wheel, slowly approached Sasha, who was unable to move.
This is better than lay scans you posted Sasha durability still scales above Lay. Your scans states his roots being sacrificed
 
Thinking something else means nothing for a guy who can simultaneously perform 100 parallel thoughts.
Anahem physically overpowers anos (though anos clapped him immediately after), not just once, he dies, gets buffed, does it again. Nobody has feats of brute force against anos that can match Anahem. It's even worse in graham's case cause by this point, anos was struggling (clearly playing around) to lift continents.
You didn't get my point. Anos was bloodlusted in Graham's fight and he was not caring in Anahem fight. LMAO.
When they had possessed demons from elenesia. Luna says he can't harm them (demon's bodies) because the cats are from deeper layers.
He didn't destroyed the deeper layers demons you said he destroyed them with a swing that's just headcanon
Who's talking about size? If i wanted to bring size into this, I'd mention how it destroyed a country🗿. Militia world celis≠ elenesia celis. Elenesia celis is far stronger.
I didn't said they are equal i am talking about the feats of them both version scales to low complex.
 
This is better than lay scans you posted Sasha durability still scales above Lay. Your scans states his roots being sacrificed
It's not. Why don't you post the rest of what happened after.

Sasha got shredded by "rupture deficient abyss gear", lay blocked <boros heteus>, same boros heteus anos had to stop because it could destroy the world.

The ending of that scan is misha trying to shield sasha but her shields get broken, lay blocking boros heteus but can't withstand it, anos having to save their assess and using himself as a shield.
You didn't get my point. Anos was bloodlusted in Graham's fight and he was not caring in Anahem fight. LMAO.
Bruh, he was caring. Someone was stealing fire dew and anos suspected Anahem. Bloodlusted or not, anahem is still the only character who overwhelmed anos even briefly in pre-silver sea.
Do i also need to bring up the fact that anos not killing you= more suffering?
He didn't destroyed the deeper layers demons you said he destroyed them with a swing that's just headcanon
Never said he did. The phantoms possessed the demons from elenesia. Those demons get buffed by deeper world magic power. Luna says celis can't harm a deeper world inhabitant. Celis proceeds to fodderize them.

Its not headcanon and it was just a swing, proof? One word, <metsujinraika>.

Militia celis strongest attacks= <Ravia Gig gaverizd>, <Ravia Neold Galvarizen>. The former is only 2-A, likely higher, the latter is bonafide low 1-C🤷🏾‍♂
 
@Tatsumi504 . I guess I agree with Misha order being 2A upto 1C but you should Know God of destruction power was constant. They don't need amp like God of creation.
Problem is, anos says <Ain Aiyl Navelva> is what can destroy the world not <sargeldonave>
 
It's not. Why don't you post the rest of what happened after.

Sasha got shredded by "rupture deficient abyss gear", lay blocked <boros heteus>, same boros heteus anos had to stop because it could destroy the world.

The ending of that scan is misha trying to shield sasha but her shields get broken, lay blocking boros heteus but can't withstand it, anos having to save their assess and using himself as a shield.
The point was lay used his sources. Also that scans literally shows she tanked one hit. She couldn't move later onwards that's why lay tried to protect her. The point still stands her durability > Lay
Bruh, he was caring. Someone was stealing fire dew and anos suspected Anahem. Bloodlusted or not, anahem is still the only character who overwhelmed anos even briefly in pre-silver sea.
Do i also need to bring up the fact that anos not killing you= more suffering?
He literally states he was thinking something else where In Graham's fight he wanted to smoke him as soon as possible
Never said he did. The phantoms possessed the demons from elenesia. Those demons get buffed by deeper world magic power. Luna says celis can't harm a deeper world inhabitant. Celis proceeds to fodderize them.

Its not headcanon and it was just a swing, proof? One word, <metsujinraika>.
Uno reverse hax ≠ AP 😈

So let's go hy by your Logic.
 A purple streak seemed to shoot from the sky, and the entire house was obliterated.
 The man's limbs were instantly torn apart as if by a sword.

 The bees were running all over the area.
Celis didn't used his possibilities or high grade lighting magic still smoked the Doll Parrington was controlling.
So you said Elensia Celis Smokes the hero who was possessed by Deeper layers demons here The doll Parrington possessed got destroyed like nothing. So I will stand by my point. Also if you disagree now that's just based 🗿. I am only using your point
Militia celis strongest attacks= <Ravia Gig gaverizd>, <Ravia Neold Galvarizen>. The former is only 2-A, likely higher, the latter is bonafide low 1-C🤷🏾‍♂
2A because you said so 🤷
 
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Except that one only does so with one attack which is why it's noted down
Read the scans i posted now
Problem is, anos says <Ain Aiyl Navelva> is what can destroy the world not <sargeldonave>
In other words, the "lunar eclipse of creation" is a power that can be used only when the creator god emits the power of annihilation, which is its counterpart. Militia, which possesses only the order of creation, could originally use it only at the moment of its destruction.

 The closer the doom approaches, the more the magical power of the Moon of Creation increases.

 At the moment of its destruction, the moon also releases the same kind of power as the Sun of Doom.

 Originally, the Creator God and the Destroyer God were two sides of the same coin.

 At the moment of destruction, the boundary between the two will disappear.
God of creation only reaches the level of God of destruction when they are at the verse of destruction.
 
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