Doremy Sweet vs Kirby

[Eficiente]

With no spellcard rules, that honestly could become nlf. I just WANT to say (to try to be fair) she'll do as many as we said she could duplicate, which is six. We can limit it if it's totally necessary. But I don't really think it would change the outcome too much.

Same amount as Kirby without a Replica, so we can ignore this factor.

 

[Sarvaughan]

None of this really answers just what Kirby can really do to win when we've gone over each one as how Doremy would null, resist, or counter.

 

[Eficiente]

It answers your last four comments.

 

[Sarvaughan]

????????????

The number of times Doremy can duplicate is a reason on how Kirby can win? Especially when I said she could do it more?

 

[Eficiente]

>The number of times Doremy can duplicate is a reason on how Kirby can win?

No, you mentioned it as an advantage and I just corrected that.

>Especially when I said she could do it more?

It kinda goes into nlf territory, and we are ignoring Replica.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Soooooo saying Doremy can duplicate more than we lowballed is a nlf?

And if we DO take out duplication Doremy can still:

1. Put Kirby to sleep

2. Erase beyond resistance (he only resisted having 9/10 of him being erased, not all of him)

3. Summon which own list of hax alone screws Kirby

While Kirby can............

 

[Eficiente]

No, saying Doremy can duplicate more than what she shown is wrong, and you mention it as a nlf in previous comments.

Kirby has more options than "............", which are void manip, Ghost Kirby (ability) and possibly more if Cal decides to keep leaving comments here.

 

[Sarvaughan]

We never even stated the exact number she's shown to duplicate. We estimated. And void manipulation requires sucking which I stated more times than I can remember she can teleport and portal herself away from. And like I also said, ghost Kirby can't really come into play if Yuyuko causes absolute and permanent death.

 

[Eficiente]

With no spellcard rules, that honestly could become nlf. I just WANT to say (to try to be fair) she'll do as many as we said she could duplicate, which is six. We can limit it if it's totally necessary. But I don't really think it would change the outcome too much.

What's even the point of this then? Absorption victims don't sit idly when being sucked, that's like saying than a Teleportation user can just escape your convensional not instantaneous bfr. The ability ghost Kirby, with Possession and Existence Erasure.

 

[Sarvaughan]

If you read my comment I even stated the exact number is unknown to me. Someone else said it could be six. So I said summons could be 6 also. And ghost Kirby would be killed by death manipulation that ignores resistances. And if Kirby were to be hit by it, he couldn't even revive from it in the first place as it's absolute unless you go beyond the concept of death. So just how would ghost Kirby survive or come out anyway? Especially when Kaguya's hax can keep you from changing from your current power state.

 

[Eficiente]

If it is 6 then all of that was pointless. As for everything else, apparently it's in doubt. Still voting Doremy tho.

 

[Sarvaughan]

I think that's seven votes isn't it?

 

[Eficiente]

She still has 6 votes and whether or not Kirby can transmute her has been put in doubt again, so we need a clarification, again.

 

[Sarvaughan]

How was it put in doubt? No one else has questioned it after all the explaining that was done. They all seem to agree with Fllflourine's and Saikou's reasonings.(ignore the reply part)

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Nothing states that Yuyuko's dearth manipulation is absolute, and you can't resurrect. Not to mention anyone she summons that can hax gets one-shot, and dying is only one method for Kirby to achieve Ghost

A single Star Rod regulates the dreams of everyone on a star sized planet, so I'd say it would give her a run for her money. Plus, Star God's been shown to get Kirby out of situations just like this before.

Already taking place in the Dream World gives an unfair advantage and that's against the rules.

That's not where Kirby's existence erasure resistance comes from.

Kirby can wake up from sleep, as he has a technique for quickly waking up from detrimental sleep. Heck, putting him to sleep heals him.

There's still the very real possibility of Kirby copying Doremy and anyone she summons.

 

[Sarvaughan]

┬ÀLook up Yuyuko on the wiki to find out what I'm saying

┬À I think manipulating a dream world with each dream large enough to be considered a solar system is > than a world size dream manipulation

┬ÀHecatia doesn't need hax to universe one shot Kirby. And like Kirby has a chance to hurt a Sakuya or Yukari alone without a screen filling amount of bullet hell in his face

┬À If it's against the rules (which I never saw) talk to Saikou about it, not me

┬À Then what is Kirby's erasure? Cause from what I see, only void suck is listed

┬À Just where is this sleep technique mentioned? And good luck mid high regenerating from death, time erasure, complete destruction, boundary manipulation, and universe AP

┬À How can you suck something if the person can teleport it out of your range? And while Kirby's busy trying to eat one person, nothing's stopping 6 other Doremy from attacking him or the many other summons killing him with durability bypassing hax

 

[Fllflourine]

...she can put Kirby down for good is via summoning, which requires her to transport them into the dream world...

They're already in the Dream World, but she could simply BFR Kirby, summon people, and then come prepared for when he comes.

While each one happens really quickly, nothing's stopping Kirby from teleporting over to her and possessing her.

Except BFR. An instantaneous, Multi-Universal range BFR.

Nothing states that Yuyuko's dearth manipulation is absolute, and you can't resurrect. Not to mention anyone she summons that can hax gets one-shot, and dying is only one method for Kirby to achieve Ghost

Yuyuko's death manipulation is soul based, and Doremy doesn't have to summon Yuyuko. There is Yukari, who has a far more potent hax, and Kaguya, who can stop an opponent in a literal instant.

A single Star Rod regulates the dreams of everyone on a star sized planet, so I'd say it would give her a run for her money. Plus, Star God's been shown to get Kirby out of situations just like this before.

Please read what Saikou said. The Dream World is also more of a physical realm than a literal dream.

Already taking place in the Dream World gives an unfair advantage and that's against the rules.

See: The previous statements on the Dream World made by Saikou and I.

Kirby can wake up from sleep, as he has a technique for quickly waking up from detrimental sleep. Heck, putting him to sleep heals him.

But does it work against Doremy's method of force-sleeping? To quote, "Kirby's dreams are only of the mental variety. Meanwhile, in Touhou, it's more like putting you to sleep and shoving your soul into another world."

There's still the very real possibility of Kirby copying Doremy and anyone she summons.

And dying before he can do that is also a real possibility. Not only that, but Kirby's power mimicry is not really that great. For example, if he swallows Reisen, he would gain lasers, but not the wave manipulating, insanity inducing gaze of Reisen. Rather, he gets his own version when he copies an ability, rather than their powers in full.

 

[Fllflourine]

Also inducing madnessÔëámaking you to be a friend,mostly because its illusion resistance which isn't remotely close to directly being transformed in a friend.

Again illusionÔëáx1000 to "hahaha i slave you to be my friend"

Uhh... what?

She still has 6 votes and whether or not Kirby can transmute her has been put in doubt again, so we need a clarification, again.

7 with Andy. Although it's been clarified above already:

-Transmutation: Meaningless. Youkai do not need physical bodies. They were VERY close to just be outright Non-Corporeal instead of having Low-Godly.

 

[Eficiente]

>Not only that, but Kirby's power mimicry is not really that great. For example, if he swallows Reisen, he would gain lasers, but not the wave manipulating, insanity inducing gaze of Reisen. Rather, he gets his own version when he copies an ability, rather than their powers in full.

That's game mechanics, or you will say that Kirby's version of his Helpers' abilities is to have their exact moves. This is why abilities get combined over the years. Why would the lore lie about that and the "Copy" copy ability?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Kirby gains entire movesets with some abilities.

Anyways, matchups like this bother me. Both of them have multiple means of putting each other down, just a matter of who does what first.

 

[Fllflourine]

That's game mechanics, or you will say that Kirby's version of his Helpers' abilities is to have their exact moves. This is why abilities get combined over the years. Why would the lore lie about that and the "Copy" copy ability?

Even then, at best, Kirby has only copied basic abilities, like fire manipulation. Nothing on the level of hax like boundary manipulation, eternity manipulation, space-time manipulation, and subconscious manipulation from what I can see.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Hardly so. Hell, Kirby doesn't even always gain the specific abilities of a character, more like abilities related to them. Even then, Kirby has showcased at the very best basic abilities like Elemental Manipulation.

And again, assuming Kirby can swallow anyone and use their powers neglects the fact that Kirby would be under fire of Doremy's hax. It's pretty irrelevant.

 

[Eficiente]

>at best, Kirby has only copied basic abilities, like fire manipulation.

>Even then, Kirby has showcased at the very best basic abilities like Elemental Manipulation

No offense but this is the most insane Kirby downplay that I've ever seen.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I'd like to see when Kirby has shown the ability to copy high-level time manip, conceptual manipulation and reality warping.

 

[Andykhang]

Again on the summoning point, rather than summoning them directly, it's safer for Doremy to just BFR Kirby into their dream, and let that be their problem. You could already imagine Yukari just "noped" and warp herself out the moment she's called.

I mean, doesn't change the fact that Doremy could summon a black hole to atomize him to death, just saying.

 

[Eficiente]

About the black hole thingy, tell me if I'm missing something but how much do you expect that to hurt Kirby? His incomplete profile says that he withstood those numerous times, which includes one the size of 1/3 of a galaxy.

 

[Eficiente]

Also changing vote to Inconclusive for Cal and AN's reasons.

 

[Kirby71]

Again on the summoning point, rather than summoning them directly, it's safer for Doremy to just BFR Kirby into their dream, and let that be their problem. You could already imagine Yukari just "noped" and warp herself out the moment she's called.
I mean, doesn't change the fact that Doremy could summon a black hole to atomize him to death, just saying.

Saying a character with lower AP than Kirby could atomize Kirby with a black hole considering how crazy Kirby's resistance to spatial and gravity manipulation is,that's just ridiculous.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'd like to see when Kirby has shown the ability to copy high-level time manip, conceptual manipulation and reality warping.

And I'd like to see Doremy summon people the way you're claiming.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Hardly so. Hell, Kirby doesn't even always gain the specific abilities of a character, more like abilities related to them. Even then, Kirby has showcased at the very best basic abilities like Elemental Manipulation.

And again, assuming Kirby can swallow anyone and use their powers neglects the fact that Kirby would be under fire of Doremy's hax. It's pretty irrelevant.

Firstly, what? Kirby gains more abilities than the being he copies, demonstrated in like, every game post Super Star. Second, I guess possession, time manipulation existence erasure, and transmutation are basic abilities? Thirdly, Kirby doesn't even need to swallow them to steal their powers.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I'd like to see when Kirby has shown the ability to copy high-level time manip, conceptual manipulation and reality warping.

And I'd like to see Doremy summon people the way you're claiming.

Just saying, that doesn't counter Saik's claim of Kirby not being able to copy that stuff.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@Sara

┬ÀLook up Yuyuko on the wiki to find out what I'm saying.

I did, which is why I'm claiming what I'm claiming.

┬À I think manipulating a dream world with each dream large enough to be considered a solar system is > than a world size dream manipulation

Not what I was getting at...at all. Because I was referring to the inhabitants rather than the planet itself, which has a debatably higher populace due to being well...larger.

┬ÀHecatia doesn't need hax to universe one shot Kirby. And like Kirby has a chance to hurt a Sakuya or Yukari alone without a screen filling amount of bullet hell in his face

Firstly, Hecatia's AP is only possibly universal. Secondly, Sakuya nor Yukari have a snowball's chance in hell of hurting Kirby without hax.

┬À If it's against the rules (which I never saw) talk to Saikou about it, not me

┬À Then what is Kirby's erasure? Cause from what I see, only void suck is listed

I was talking about his resistance, which is enough to withstand a wave of cosmic existence erasure...twice.

┬À Just where is this sleep technique mentioned? And good luck mid high regenerating from death, time erasure, complete destruction, boundary manipulation, and universe AP

In his SLEEP ability. And that's what resurrection is for, she dies instantly, that's what resurrection is for, dies instantly, and see above respectively.

┬À How can you suck something if the person can teleport it out of your range? And while Kirby's busy trying to eat one person, nothing's stopping 6 other Doremy from attacking him or the many other summons killing him with durability bypassing hax

She's completely unaware of Kirby's range? That's a good reason. And nothing's stopping Kirby from using his duplication, which has shown more than 6, to do the same. If anything, Kirby's duplication is more useful, because it was actually shown that if you hax all but one to death, he's still capable of kicking butt. </div>

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

Kirby can't inhale or copy most bosses mostly due gameplay machanics. People like Drawcia, Marx or Dark Meta Knight, it is likely that bosses such as those would be inhaled normally otherwise. Just sayin

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

snip

That's not bloodlust strategy. That's outright prep. That's not gonna happen.

A BFR into dreams, which again, Kirby can get out of.

...and? Not only does this sound pretty convenient, but it doesn't matter, as pretty much all interactive Dream Worlds are. Whether you're Freddy Kreuger, Dreamy Bowser, or Nightmare.

What does that have to do with our vs rule about giving an unfair battlefield advantage?

You realize Kirby's soul is completely independent of his body, right? She does that, Kirby's irl body is gonna wreck shop.

See above.

Btw, sorry if that sounds rude. Not my intention.

 

[Sarvaughan]

First Yuyuko has the ability to trap and keep souls from re-entering from the after life. He couldn't even resurrect in the FIRST place. Hell, Yukari's hax can even do that. And I never said the summons (which wad proven in a thread she can do) could physically hurt Kirby. Their hax however wreck him. And it was stated Hectatia is the most superior character in the verse. This includes Amitabha who is listed as universal. Even being considered to be universal is > than any ap Kirby has (plus she's listed as at least multi solar system level compared to Kirby's....). And Kirby can't "get out of" the dream cause he isn't in one in the first place. Like stated numerous times it's a physical world that Doremy can manipulate. And Kirby's soul multiple ways of getting destroyed including Flandre's destruction, Yuyuko's control of souls, or Youmu's ability that cuts up the possibility of resurrecting.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Also just how is Kirby's duplication better? Cause not killing all of them being bad is kind of something that applies to all duplication. And not knowing Kirby's moot range compared to Doremy's multi universal range is a disadvantage for her? And Doremy is able of cloning just as much if not more. Plus how is Kirby going to survive in a field of danmaku from 6+ Doremy and summons while they are all capable of hax killing him?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

First paragraph: You literally just gave a reason to why he'd resurrect. Because he'd still become a soul, which is all that's needed, and she can't loldeath souls. Yukari can easily lolhax him, but that doesn't matter, because the odds of her of all people being summoned and haxing before her or Doremy's demise is slim to none. Hecatia, just look at her profile. Common sense dictates that this is her 4-A end. I have seen literally zero evidence that this dream world is any different than any other dream world, so burden of proof is on you. Youmu can't even hurt Kirby, and her hax wouldn't affect him, due to her hax requiring to cut the opponent, and Kirby's trillions upon trillions of times stronger than her.

Second Paragraph: Because he's actually shown>6 forms. Her range is multi-universal from teleportation and portals, from what you guys are saying. It's no different than Mewtwo, for example. While Kirby's range is greater normally. Btw, I never said that it'd be a disadvantage to her. He'd survive danmaku because not only is his regen enough to no-sell it, but because he can easily reflect it all back.

 

[Eficiente]

@Sarvaughan Again, he still scales to Dark Nebula.

 

[Sarvaughan]

No I literally gave a reason as to why he WOULDN'T resurrect. Once Yuyuko kills him he wouldn't come back. I just gave reasons as how his soul could be destroyed anyway. And just how is Doremy's demise close when more than enough people said Kirby's the one who has little chance of doing anything before getting killed. First of Doremy can teleport out of his range and summon as much as she wants to come back and hax curb him. How is Kirby's interstellar range suppose to get to her? And for danmaku I'm pretty sure multiple multi solar system attacks go far beyond his durability and she can reflect attacks as well. If you do research in Touhou's dream world you'll see it's not just some regular mental plane like Freddy but instead a whole physical realm. Saying mid high regen straight up no sells against multiple attacks on the same level of your durability is like saying Deadpool would no sell attacks from the iron man armory. And while he's busy trying to regen from practically air literally nothing is stopping Doremy or a summon hax killing him. Kirby can't exactly regenerate from Flandre's complete destruction hax or Yukari's boundary manipulation.

 

[Eficiente]

What percentage of a galaxy can she destroy?