Doremy Sweet vs Kirby

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Funny how summoning seems to be a huge argument for Doremy here, and yet Kirby's hax isn't allowed because he has to manually switch between copy abilities. Certainly it would take Doremy a second to open a portal and summon someone, right?

Kirby can just select a copy ability from his stomach and poof, he has it. It's not like he has to dig into his pocket for hours or scroll through a bunch of menus just to find an ability. It's no different from Megaman; only here, Kirby can actually merge two abilities together to get a stronger combined ability. The only drawback to this is that he can't use more than two at once, and he doesn't need to.

Kirby's Empathic Manipulation should also be an answer to Doremy's summons as well, especially since it's an ability Kirby has in base.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Please not with the empathy manipulation again. Saikou and others including me will just start to be triggered based on the countless proofs that it wouldn't work. Please actually read the posts before saying something like that. And we never said Kirby couldn't use his powers so don't start there. And like I said Doremy can teleport way out of Kirby's range and proceed to overkill summon hax characters able to kill Kirby while there are clones of her who are just as powerful left behind to distract Kirby then come back.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Also @ Eficiente on average how many solar systems are in a galaxy? I myself don't know but based on the answer I could calculate Doremy

 

[ALRF]

What's the vote count?

 

[Sarvaughan]

I don't know exactly. I THINK it's either:

7-3-1 with Doremy leading or

7-4-1

 

[Sarvaughan]

Btw shouldn't this be grace period or are more votes needed?

 

[ALRF]

It is

But the opposite side is still fighting for Kirby

 

[Sarvaughan]

............ ok

So basically this will last forever

 

[Sarvaughan]

So how are these threads finished? Cause I don't think everyone that's been added had unanimous votes.

 

[ALRF]

Wait for Grace Period to end.

Inb4 opposite side argues again

But i think even then, it will be added after some time even if Kirby voters still continue to argue

 

[Eficiente]

Grace Period started? We are kinda ignoring arguments and questioning the veracity of claims here.

 

[ALRF]

What claims? Even if we ignore the summoning part, unless Kirby has resisted some higher form of erasure he sure is capable of getting erased by Doremy.

Not voting for her btw

 

[Kirby71]

This lose is being too forced,ignoring good arguments like this is not a thing i like,also,this should be inconclusive.

P.D how much time is the Grace period?

 

[ALRF]

IIRC 24 hours

 

[Eficiente]

@ALRF You mean higher than this

I was talking about his resistance, which is enough to withstand a wave of cosmic existence erasure...twice.

Also should I make a list of the ignored stuff here?

 

[Sarvaughan]

All of these "good arguments" are just repeated statements that have already been countered and debunked but keep reappearing (empathy manipulation, transfiguration not working on Doremy, and Kirby somehow ignoring unresurrectable death and boundary manipulation)

 

[Eficiente]

@Sarvaughan No offense but you have repeated statements more than anybody in this thread. Empathy manipulation was wrong but the other things have not been finished to be discussed, why do you affirm otherwise?

 

[ALRF]

"Wave of cosmic existance erasure" seems just like flowery language. What does cosmic refers too?

 

[Eficiente]

Erasing things in space including celestial bodies. One is definitely Drawcia's which I already mention, I'm not sure about the other but it's probably related to the collapse of Another Dimension after Magolor's defeat.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Cal can I gently redirect you to the at least two threads where the Touhou Dream World was considered as physical before you try and debate something already in the profiles when you bring up stuff not even on Kirby's profile (Like the Warpstar being able to cross universes). People have no need to provide scans for every minute thing already listed on the profiles just because you don't believe them.

Also, Doremy can both BFR someone fully into the dream world or send them to sleep by putting their soul there. Kirby being able to fight as his soul won't matter at all here.

 

[Eficiente]

>send them to sleep by putting their soul there

I have no comments for everything else but Kirby's soul and body work separately, I don't think this could work.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

I literally just said, in the same sentence you took that quote, that it doesn't matter if Doremy were to BFR Kirby.

 

[Fllflourine]

Well this is definitely the longest thread I've really participated in. And sure as hell if I could also login here while at my long school.

P.D how much time is the Grace period?

About a day or two.

That's not bloodlust strategy. That's outright prep. That's not gonna happen.

Wait, what? All I am saying here is that Doremy can just BFR Kirby and that will give her time to summon in advance for when he does come back. Even if said time is minimal, it is better than having to face your opponent right in front of you.

A BFR into dreams, which again, Kirby can get out of.

Doremy BFRs the protag into the Lunar Capital in Legacy of Lunatic Kingdom, so it's not just limited to dreams.

Yukari can easily lolhax him, but that doesn't matter, because the odds of her of all people being summoned and haxing before her or Doremy's demise is slim to none.

Doremy is bloodlusted here. Doremy knows of the dreams of everyone on the Earth and Moon, and thus who they are and what they're capable of, which includes Yukari. For instance, in LoLK, when Marisa meets Doremy, the latter acts like she has seen her before. Additionally, Doremy and Yukari have met before, and their conversation implies Doremy knows that Yukari's a big fish when it comes to Gensokyo affairs. See: AoCF

You realize Kirby's soul is completely independent of his body, right? She does that, Kirby's irl body is gonna wreck shop.

Big difference between just sending someone's soul to the Dream World and sending them whole. Doremy can do both. Also, see Saikou.

While Kirby's range is greater normally. Btw, I never said that it'd be a disadvantage to her. He'd survive danmaku because not only is his regen enough to no-sell it, but because he can easily reflect it all back.

Firstly, the starting distance is 20 meters. This is also a non spellcard battle. Danmaku is not the first thing that a haxxed Touhou character (especially ones like Doremy, and they're bloodlusted here) is going to resort to in a real fight.

Thirdly, Kirby doesn't even need to swallow them to steal their powers.

Where was this shown?

@Sarv Efic changed his vote yet again, so Doremy is at 6. Also, what Efic said in regards to your arguments.

 

[Sarvaughan]

@Eficiente the transmutation not working was proven numerous times by 3 people yet it's still "debatable". At this point bringing it up unless I see legitimate sources to prove otherwise will in fact make me ignore them. That's the reason why I and others have had to repeat themselves so many times. It's like people voting for Kirby blatantly skip over anything with information on how transformation wouldn't work on Doremy and just continue to say it does, or apparently there's not enough information.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Also, if Kirby's only way of getting his copy abilities is via Deluxe Copy Abilities, then he can't get Ghost or most of his relevant powers from them (Except Coy) on the spot.

Honestly, most Kirby votes seem flawed to me:

-Kirby can counter BFR

Lie. Kirby has nothing on his profile proving his ability to go from universe to universe and no feats of being capable of doing so.

-Kirby can Transmute her

Been debunked countless amount of times. Youkai's core is their mind, their physical body doesn't matter. And no, transmuting her doesn't get rid of her "mind" because he "removes her sentience". Youkai don't need/have brains. Their sentience isn't related to their physical body or biology, and Kirby only "removes sentience" by making the enemy into a non-sentient object.

-Kirby can Empathy

Again, lie. We went over this in another thread that one type of Mind Manip will be resisted by general mind manip.

-Kirby can possess/erase

The only valid way I see Kirby winning easily. However, this requires Kirby to physically touch her to possess and then erase her, which may be hard due to her nigh-instant BFR and her danmaku being 90% composed of Sleep Inducement. So it isn't an instant win by any means. And like I just said, I'm doubting if Kirby can even instantly get his Ghost Copy ability.

 

[Eficiente]

I literally just said, in the same sentence you took that quote, that it doesn't matter if Doremy were to BFR Kirby.

Ups, I understood something else and was mentioning another weird power of Kirby. But how does Doremy knows that she must send both things there besides being bloodlusted?

Thirdly, Kirby doesn't even need to swallow them to steal their powers.

Where was this shown?

Besides the "Copy" copy ability he can throw himself to the opponent to absorb his powers.

@Eficiente the transmutation not working was proven numerous times by 3 people yet it's still "debatable".

When there were no arguments about that it was proven and I voted her, then Cal appeared saying new arguments, so I now consider it debatable.

Also, if Kirby's only way of getting his copy abilities is via Deluxe Copy Abilities, then he can't get Ghost or most of his relevant powers from them (Except Coy) on the spot.

He can do it naturally, he doesn't need that.

Changing vote to Inconclusive, I can only discuss things here and there, Cal appears and debates almost everything, I prefer to wait him, just to be sure of everything.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

"He can do it naturally"

Once again, I shall request a proof of something that visibly isn't on his profile. Especially since that would contradict nearly every game in existence where his copy abilities are in.

 

[Eficiente]

It's not contradictory for being game mechanics, as for evidence: He demonstrates that before doing Ability Challenges in Kirby's Return to Dream Land, in this cinematic in Kirby's Dream Collectio, in the same game without being a cinematic, in Mass Attack while weakened and he can also use and switch abilities without justification in games like Team Kirby Clash Deluxe, Kirby Battle Royale and more.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

These are nearly all are challenges or mini-games. Not something part of the story. Hell these examples are most likely EVEN MORE gameplay mechanics than Kirby not being able to do so normally.

 

[TheRavenPirate]

I'd give this to Kirby due to how many abilities they could utilise

 

[Eficiente]

@Saikou What's the problem with this in challenges? And why it must even be in the story? Various powers and feats were taken out of mini-games as this verse absolutely loves those.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

The fact that those are obviously disconnected from the main plot. What's telling us Kirby didn't swallow or in any way prepare this ability beforehand? Or the fact that this copy ability is automatically granted when ones enter a specific challenge? Especially if you're pulling this ability out of a goddamn title screen.

I'm saying it again: Kirby being able to automatically chooses all of his abilities at any time without needing to absorb an enemy not only contradicts nearly the whole series, but it goes against the whole concept of the character: Swallowing an enemy to get their powers. I think that it's clear that Kirby automatically getting an ability that matches the challenge he enters is game mechanic and not Kirby simply using his so-called ability to summon any and all of his copy abilities freely and that he just "forgot" to use it at any time in the series outside of those.

 

[Sarvaughan]

Even if Kirby could use these abilities without copy ( I have no side on this matter) none of them even affect Doremy as given by the multiple reasons above. While she on the other hand has hax that Kirby has no protection against. This is now just stating the powers Kirby has although none of them would be troubling for Doremy.

 

[Fllflourine]

6-3-2 now, I think

 

[Sarvaughan]

Any ability he can utilize is moot when using them on Doremy.

Transmutation? Nope. Doremy's body doesn't matter to her and her mind is unaffected

Empathy manipulation? Nope. Doremy's mind manipulation resistance.

Sucking? Nope. Doremy's instantaneous teleportation and bfr.

What else can Kirby even do here?

Possession? Nope. Doremy can remove Kirby's soul, destroy him in numerous ways he can't even resist, and even use Kaguya to lock Kirby in time then proceed to kill him

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Summoning's going to be a bit too hard to pull off in the midst of a quick-paced hax fight. And Doremy can't exactly remove Kirby's soul when he's a ghost, although she can still BFR him.

 

[Sarvaughan]

I mean Doremy can easily teleport away while leaving multiple duplications behind and then summon as many hax characters it takes . And I meant removing Kirby's soul while he's in his living state. Plus Kirby still has no answer to complete destruction from Flandre who could also destroy him as a ghost too.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Doremy can't pluck out the soul of living people except by putting them sleep, but it's still limited and doesn't make her able to directly counter possession.

As I've just said, Summoning would be too much of a handful to use in such fight. It's unlikely that she'd pull it out unless she really can't kill Kirby for some reasons.

 

[DarkLordofShadows]

It doesn't matter if mini-games and chalenges are disconnected from the main plot. Most extra modes in Kirby are for showing what Kirby and other characters can do outside from the main game . That's why mini-games such as Megaton Punch exist.

 

[Sarvaughan]

That's why I said she could also teleport to where Kirby can't reach or follow her. While one Doremy is gone summoning characters, the other duplicates could be fighting Kirby. But this without going for her own powers such a putting Kirby to sleep and killing him then.