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Doflamingo and Luffy vs (Alive) Madara and Hashirama

@Cin


Sorry, the abbreviations confuse me, a lot.


It would make Madara 7-A, but Kyuubi would still be what? High 6A, if iirc.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kurama_(Kyūbi)


This is, in essence a 3v2, and the third character's stats are being included in the second, which is wrong, imo.


And to be honest, Assuming that CoC is Haoshoku Haki, It won't matter in this battle.

Both Hashi&Madara have very strong wills.
 
@Llama... You're looking at Kurama after the events of the war. Not even using the actual kurama... using a hypnotized Kurama.

Kurama is Small Island.

CoC haki isn't just used for knocking Fodder out. It has been used in combat and further enhances its users physical strikes while also granting aoe. When Doflamingo and Luffy's CoC clashed, the entire flower hill was shaking from the force, Law was blasted from the immediate area, and the palace was being further decimated. Luffy use CoC when fighting Chinjao and Doflamingo. Doflamingo and Base Luffy were brawling just before the reveal of G4 and we'd see them applying CoC every once in a while: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/783/13. It adds to their physical strikes and grants them aoe.

I'll give Luffy G4 back just due to the fact that I allowed Madara access to Kurama.
 
@Cin


Kurama While Under Madara's Control> War Kurama.

Kurama isn't small island. Hell, his first feat put him at Multi-Mountain, if iirc.


Again, even giving Luffy G4 doesn't really matter, Kurama is literally going to completely destroy the island, in one or two casual attacks.


To Make This Fair, I suggest Restricting both G4&Kurama


And if Kurama is allowed in both of Madara's individual matches, I give it to Madara, both times.
 
They have nothing to bypass his PS susanoo literally

Moreover he can clone himself,use Katon,illusions,summon Kyuubi etc.
 
@Llama

Multi-mountain < Small Island, actually -- also, War Kurama is practically half of his original power... even so, both are small Island.

If Kurama is restricted, Madara is practically a non factor in this fight. He'd be easily killed by a one-two combo by Luffy and Doflamingo.

You fail to realize that Kurama would never willingly fight for Madara... Madara has him constantly under hypnosis.

I don't see how Madara with Kurama can beat Doflamingo when Doflamingo's DF ability would be the perfect counter for someone of Kurama's size. He could easily restrict his movement (Better than Hashirama could with his wood style) with Spider thread and his awakening and snipe Madara with Overheat. If Madara is defeated, Kurama would be released from the jutsu and either leave or attempt at Doflamingo's life out of being enraged--either way, Doflamingo beats Madara with relative mid difficulty.

Gear 4th Luffy is listed as being probably Island level. It also boosts all of his previous stats: speed, power, blunt force resistance, etc... Suggesting that it isn't going to be a factor is ridiculous given that he jumps up a tier.

@Akuto Both have superior AP than Madara's durability BY TWO TIERS (Mountain vs Likely Island for both)... they could break his Perfect susanoo with a few physical strikes. His clones are not as strong as him and Doflamingo can also make a clone of himself that actually compares to both him and Luffy in physical ability. Genjutsu outside of Izanagi is restricted for this fight, Doflamingo's DF can stop something like Kurama with relative ease (especially given that Hashirama could bind Kurama with little difficulty as well). Madara doesn't have anything that gives him an edge over the two.
 
Madaras PS"s durability is likely far higher for tanking tenpachi at its center prime Madara > Edo Madara they have no means as I said

He also doesn't need Genjutsu for illusion bringer of darkness isn't Genjutsu.Doffys DF is not stopping Kurama maybe half Kurama
 
Lmao...

Madara's durability: "Normally at least Multi-City Block level via power-scaling (Should be comparable to his Edo self, also possesses Chakra comparable to a Bijuu, and should be at least as durable as Kakashi, if not, far higher),Large Mountain level with Perfect Susanoo (Tanked Prime Kurama's Bijuudama), at least Large Mountain level with Kyuubi-Susanoo (Emerged unharmed from the final clash with Hashirama which dwarfed the land)"

Doflamingo's AP: "At least Small Island level. Likely higher"

Large Mountain is the lower end of Small Island... Doflamingo is likely Island AP vs Madara's Large Mountain durability.

When Madara loses his susanoo defense, a single blow from Luffy and Doflamingo will incapacitate him.

lmao Madara never ever showed himself capable of using that illusion. Also, even if he used it, it is an illusion that affects the eye-sight, which is an attribute that Doflamingo and Luffy do not need due to their Observation haki granting them sensory capabilities + pre-cognition.

hmm... Doflamingo's threads have higher AP than Hashirama's wood. Yes, he is stopping Kurama lmao.
 
Wait wait wait wait

Haki can counter illusions??? Lol no

Small island and larger mountain is the same thing from what I can recall

And if a Edo Madara was island level you think his prime who was said to be stronger is weaker?
 
HAHAHA? You're suggesting that he can use an illusion that has only been shown obscurring vision. Observation haki practically counters any blinding effects. They don't even need to directly see their opponents to know their location. so... Lol yes.

Surely you can read the description on his page:

  • -Kenbunshoku Haki (Color of Observation or Mantra): A form of Haki that allows the user to sense the presence of his opponents. A user of this type of Haki can predict an opponent's moves before he gets hit. This works by showing the user an image or brief "premonition" of what the opponent will do, manifested as a mental image in the user's mind's eye, and the damage the user will take if the attack "hit" for real. It appears that the more killer intent the enemy has the easier they are to predict, though more efficient users can predict future moves regardless whether there are ambient murderous intents or not. Including the distance, location, and where the opponent may strike next.
Large Mountain is on the low end of the Small Island scale. 1 GT vs 2.3+ GT

Edo Madara had hashirama's cells and the rinnegan. He is obviously going to have more abilities and power as compared to his living self (he is listed as Island because of Onoki originally being listed as Island when he is currently Small city atm... Madara in edo should be downgraded to Large Mountain simply because of that).
 
Hashirama still said prime Madara > Hashirama but yes obviously rinnegan > EMS

Haki is precognition that won't help against illusions
 
Are you seriously that incapable of reading? "though more efficient users can predict future moves regardless whether there are ambient murderous intents or not. Including the distance, location, and where the opponent may strike next"

And they don't need their vision. That technique to are wanking is only a visual deception. They can easily bypass it.
 
Damn I forgot this was specifically bout bringer of darkness in any case disabling their eye sight pretty much puts a huge toll on their efficiency either way and they can't repeatedly use their precog that's why they get hit by things far slower than light beams they could dodge
 
Luffy is very adept in Observation haki. Given that Madara and Hashirama are each 1/3 of Base Luffy's speed, he would be able to evade most strikes as long as they don't cover a massive cone. He'd be able to utilize his haki in most of the fight where he needs it.

Doflamingo's Observation haki has been proven to be quite basic while he specializes in Armament, but he has been shown evading characters that have similar speeds to an extent and if he can't physically jump away from the attack, he has shown that he can apply his highly proficient Armament haki to the area where the attack is going to land: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/745/7, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/784/11 + http://www.***********.net/one-piece/784/12

Haki will function so long as the user has stamina. Doflamingo's haki weakened after he received a mortal injury from Law (which blew up his organs) and his armament haki was seemingly matched by Luffy's, if not outmatched (this was after he casually broke Luffy's armament haki guard with his own). Luffy could only hold Gear 4th for 20 minutes as a result because using Armament haki perpetually for that period of time when he is only adept with it resulted in him being immobilized.
 
I'll look into that all that later you bring good points at least team op is not hax however that's why I don't believe they'll beat the ninjas
 
Doflamingo actually has a bit of hax on him.

Parasito: a thread that pierces the target's neck, granting Doflamingo the ability to manipulate their body. (when he initially used bird cage, he fired several dozen parasito threads off in order to take control of citizens and marines in order to inflict chaos:http://www.***********.net/one-piece/745/14

Madara would be safe from this attack so long as he remained in PS, but Hashirama usually rides his avatar.

DF awakening: the ability for him to turn all material within a radius of him into threads. He can use them all with full control: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/6 + http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/7

Large opponents are his most favorable opponents to fight. He casually defeated Oars jr. with his normal threads and even took his leg off as if it were nothing: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/555/9 + http://www.***********.net/one-piece/555/10
 
@Cin, you misunderstand me, I said Casually MultiMountain.


A bloodlusted Kurama would plain out Nuke the island they're on.


Literally, I don't know why you consider War Arc Kurama>Kurama under Madara's control.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Woodstyle have a special property to restrain&calm the Bijuu?

Doffy's strings don't have the same ability.


Kurama still meganukes all four of them into the surrounding waters, casually.
 
I. Said. War. Kurama. =. Half. of. his. original. power

Lmao... if he blew the entire island of Dressrosa up, he would be Large Island+ DC. The island is 43+km in diameter. He is Large Mountain level

You are still not looking at what characters i'm using. I'm using the actual Kurama... not war, not continental. read.

you clearly ignored his page.

Key: 50% Kyübi | Prime Kyübi | 100% Kurama Six Path Sage Chakra enhancement

Tier: High 7-A | High 7-A | High 6-A

Attack Potency: Large Mountain level normally (Matched the combined Bijüdama of five other Biju's with one of its ow, calc) | Large Mountain level | Multi-Continent level via power-scaling (shouldn't be much weaker than BSM Naruto)

The kurama being used is the 2nd one on the key. read.
 
@Cin


Exactly, you aren't using War Kurama.

War Kurama = 1/2 Actual Kurama, and could still deflect five mountain busters, casually.

I find it funny that people think War Kurama>PreWar Kurama.

"You are still not looking at what characters i'm using. I'm using the actual Kurama... not war, not continental. read."

And what Kurama have I been using?

It is obvious logic that when X=(y*1/2), y=2x.

"y" being PreNaruto Kurama.

"X" being War Kurama.
 
I'm saying that I am using Prime Kurama... also... everyone knows that Prime Kurama is stronger than War kurama... however, that doesn't result in him being in a higher tier.

War Kurama output 2.35 GT of energy with his Bijuu Dama -- Small Island (-)

If we doubled that (Which it honestly doesn't work entirely that way unless it has been stated otherwise), it would result in 4.7 GT of energy, which is Island level (-), but barely. Naruto's chakra was also added into the mix and I am speculating that the Yang half of Kurama became somewhat superior to his Yin half due to his time with Naruto while the Yin half was pretty much in the stomach of a demon since Naruto was born.

It is safe to assume that Kurama in prime is Small Island +.

You were initially suggesting that Madara was using Continential Kurama: "It would make Madara 7-A, but Kyuubi would still be what? High 6A, if iirc."

Hashirama with True Thousand Hands = at least Small Island+ for matching Kurama clad in susanoo

Madara is listed as Mountain... making him the weakest in the entire group.

Doflamingo is scaled to be at least Small Island+, probably Island (-) due to outclassing base Luffy and tanking Gear 4th hits while his organs were recently blown up.

Base Luffy is Small Island due to tanking Fujitora's ferocious tiger (Low end being Large Mountain, High end being Island (-)) without any visible damage. He would likely have resulted in being Island (-) if his rubbery body was not capable of mitigating a lot of blunt force, but considering that he was already injured, took the attack point blank, and came out with little more than a scratch, he is easily Small Island in base: http://www.narutoforums.com/xfa-blog-entry/one-piece-calc-25-ferocious-tiger.26604/

Gear 4th Luffy is likely Island (-) due to overpowering Doflamingo (and due to Doflamingo's statement that Luffy's attack power multiplied: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/784/13 (a lot of translations suggest that his power tripled according to Doflamingo, so I believe it is safe to assume Island Gear 4th)

There is also the matter of speed: Luffy and Doflamingo being above Mach 634+ combat speed while Hashirama/Kurama/Madara are Mach 230+

Due to Luffy's blunt force mitigation, A lot of Hashirama's attacks would lose a lot of force behind their attacks. Kurama and Madara would however be able to harm him since both specialize in piercing/slashing attacks.

Doflamingo can apply low level Regenerationn on himself since he managed to repair the damage he received from having his insides blown up by Law's Gamma knife after some time and his Devil Fruit ability is specialized for trapping large opponents. I don't see Kurama being able to attack freely so long as Doflamingo is throwing Spider Threads everywhere: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/769/3, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/780/11, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/14

Hashirama has been stated to be capable of impressive healing capabilities similar to Tsunade's 100-healing technique, but I don't see him being able to win since I find Madara being killed by Doflamingo or Luffy to be relatively high and Kurama's reaction afterwards being controversal (he could defect, leave, or attack all present).

Given that Hashirama's body only has Town level durability, I see him being beaten pretty easily once he is melee range of Doflamingo or Luffy.

I'd find this fight to be much closer, but given Madara and Hashirama's normal durability, once their defenses are compromised, they are finished with an "Athlito" or "Eagle Bazooka" to the chest.

Of course Izanagi is a factor, but Luffy would be able to react almost immediately due to his adept level of pre-cognition. Doflamingo may not be able to react, but even if he takes damage, has shown being able to repair his body from injuries that would normally kill a mortal body instantly.
 
Ah I meant Prime Kurama** not Naruto:The Last Kurama, my bad.


I don't find any justifiable reason as to Yang Kurama>Yin Kurama.

True, OP characters are a lot faster.

While blunt attacks do not work on Luffy, as I suggested in my first answer, Hashirama uses Wood Constructs/Myoujinmon to trap Luffy, and proceed to slice him up, with whatever he deems sharp enough(Kunai, Shuriken, etc).

Doflamingo's Regen isn't good enough to tank either Hashi or Madara's better attacks(Gokamekkakyu).


From what I see of this, when the battle starts, Luffy&Doflamingo would first go after Kurama, since they would obviously perceive him as the biggest threat(Who wouldn't), which would leave Hashi&Madara ample time to formulate strategies to take them both out.

Yea, I first used the idea of Izanagi, thinking PreCog was restricted.


And the point about "Kurama's reaction afterwards being controversal (he could defect, leave, or attack all present).", going off his character, he'd attack all present, definitely. He loathes Humans.


While your points make quite a bit of sense, I still feel that Restricting both G4&Kurama is better, since I'd give it to Hashi+Madara 8/10 times with Kurama.


And another thing I failed to touch upon is that they are fighting on an island. My theory is either Hashi restrains Luffy and beats him, or finds out that blunt force(His Wood Style) is of no use against Luffy, and goes into regions where he can use his other elements, like Suiton and stuff, which would be a major weakness for Luffy.


On a Side Note, what is stopping Hashi from using his Pollen-Jutsu, since Luffy/Doffy have no knowledge about it?

It would basically be win by incapacitation, followed by death.
 
1) how can Hashirama leave the island while Bird Cage is active? And Dressrosa is pretty huge.

2) You're suggesting what Hashirama can do to Luffy while ignoring any resistance that Luffy will put up. Also, Kunai/Shurikan would shatter on Luffy's skin. Why can't he break out of Hashirama's wood with haki infused blows? Why can't Doflamingo help Luffy if he gets an opening during the fight?

3) Nothing is stopping it, but you do realize that he and madara would both be affected by it as well, right? Also, unlike Doflamingo and Luffy, they would not be able to retreat to the skies very effectively. Both Luffy (Gear 4th) and Doflamingo have psuedo flight. I would bring up Luffy's poison resistance, but due to the most recent chapter, it is debatable that it would be a very big factor.

4) Kurama's threat level would be lowered drastically due to Doflamingo's environmental manipulation via awakening and spider thread as i've said a few times now. Kurama's likelihood of fighting effectively is very low.

5) Kurama may hate humans, but when he is freed from Madara's control (if Madara is KO'd or Killed during the fight), he is far more likely to simply leave or charge after Hashirama, who would clearly be trying to defend Madara's body. Worst case for team OP, Kurama attacks everyone.

6) Doflamingo's regen helps him deal with most damage he receives to his body over time (Blood loss and physical trauma not being fixed, however), but what makes you think that Doflamingo can't tank hits from Hashirama and Madara when he could tank numerous blows from Law + Base Luffy on top of several strikes from Gear 4th Luffy immediately after?

7) Well, Yang Kurama was actually active with Naruto for some time while Yin Kurama was literally in the belly of a demon for the entire time. That's why Yang Kurama would have ended up being somewhat stronger, logically... and that some of the force from his biijuu dama during the war came from Naruto's chakra as well.

Madara and Hashirama may have their wide ranged physical strikes, but Doflamingo is capable of generating threads that can go across several kilometers (not including bird cage): Overheat being calc'd at being capable of stretching over 6 kilometers (suggesting that the low end was the distance from half-way across the bridge and that the building hit was near the coast of the island), for example: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/724/9
 
I don't really see Luffy breaking out of Myojinmon.

Not sure if Kunai/Shuriken would shatter on contact, even if they do, Hashi still has stuff like Wooden Stakes. Doflamingo would not come to Luffy's help, cause he and Madara are still fighting.

Not Really, Madara/Hashi won't be affected by the Pollen, since Madara is in his Susanoo, and Hashi is the caster, he'd ensure that it won't hit him.

And Wiki: "The pollen produced by these flowers is then released into the atmosphere and when inhaled, renders any afflicted target unconscious. The user can also control where the pollen spreads so it does not affect them nor their comrades". So Hashi&Madara would never be hit by it.


A restrained Kurama can still give out casual Bijuu Dama, which would cause mass destruction on the island, which would play out in favor of Madara/Hashirama


I don't really see Doffy handle a Gokamekkakyu though.

Physical Strikes are one thing, energy attacks are another. The logic that Doffy can tank Luffy's punches, does not mean that he can tank flames.

Kurama will attack everyone, based off his personality.

The Yang-Yin Kurama theory, honestly doesn't make much sense.

Yin was in the belly of a demon, Yang was in the belly of a human.

In no case would there be an increase in power.
 
Why don't you see Luffy breaking out? I don't see him being caught in it unless he is already being held down, but due to his flexibility, he would be able to find a way to break out with his attacks.

Kunai and Shurikan are primarily made from iron. Luffy's forehead broke a steel blade on contact: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/789/18 and he was able to tank Doflamingo's flap-thread, which is a piercing attack used by several strands of Doflamingo's awakened threads, which were imbued with haki. (Doflamingo's normal threads were capable of slicing through iron pillars and entire buildings down individually with ease, which could suggest that his threads are comparable in toughness to diamonds -- his Armament haki increases the density and strength of his threads drastically. Luffy was capable of taking multiple blows from them before he was pierced: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/8). Luffy's haki wasn't at full strength at the time due to being so exhausted that he could only throw one more attack before being unconscious for a few days.

Wooden stakes wouldn't be able to pierce Luffy or Doflamingo considering that both can shatter material stronger than steel with their skin.

Luffy's resistance to Poison would help him cancel out the affects at least somewhat (however, the most recent chapter showed him affected by a poisonous fish, but any other time he has come into contact with venom/poison, it had no affect on his body). Doflamingo can retreat into the skies if not distance himself from the flowers. He could also remain at a distance and fight with his Overheat thread and Termite threads.

Doflamingo and Luffy are both at least Adept (Doflamingo being highly proficient) in Armament haki. They can both apply invisible armor to themselves which is capable of defending their bodies from elemental based attacks that Madara can apply. Doflamingo was frozen by Aokiji, but was able to almost completely nullify the affect because he covered his body in haki and broke out of it. He was also able to casually tank Sanji's diable jambe strikes with no burns to his body or even his coat: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/699/5, http://www.***********.net/one-piece/724/3 + http://www.***********.net/one-piece/724/5. I would have brought up the elemental releases if I didn't know that both Doflamingo and Luffy's ability to defend against them as well. Doflamingo has at least shown capable of negating freezing and burning based attacks to a degree (that pun is amazing). Doflamingo's pink feathered jacket would also help in his defense against flame attacks.

Even if you were to suggest that there would be no difference between Yang + Yin, Yang's beast bomb also had Naruto's chakra within it. It wouldn't be exactly half of his full power, it would be a bit more than that.

There is also a case in which Hashirama and Madara would both be at risk of Doflamingo's Parasito... Hashirama moreso since Madara is fighting in Susanoo and his eyes are very keen.

The one thing I am annoyed about is that "the pollen doesn't affect allies" is very silly indeed.
 
I can't type out a detailed reply now, I'll try my best.

Pollen isn't really Poisonous/Venomous, it just acts as anasthaesia iirc.

Well, the whole "Pollen can be controlled", I got it off the wiki, not too sure how authentic it is.

"Even if you were to suggest that there would be no difference between Yang + Yin, Yang's beast bomb also had Naruto's chakra within it. It wouldn't be exactly half of his full power, it would be a bit more than that."

More than half? That Bijuu Dama was a pretty casual one, which didn't even scratch the tip of the iceberg that is Kurama's chakra.


Doflamingo can fly to escape the pollen, but that would be only if he knew what was going on. If iirc, the attack initially shows a large amount of wood, then flowers, and instantly releasing pollen. Unless he knows what is going on, he wouldn't retreat to the skies.

From what I've seen in Naruto, Kunai&Shuriken have done things not possible for normal iron weapons.

And I do not see Luffy breaking out, due to the fact that the Juubi couldn't break out of Myojinmon.


PS- Love the pun.
 
A lot of detail on wikis may be pretty factual in terms of the source, but sometimes it is iffy... I don't see how Madara would be free to walk in Hashirama's pollen.

I'd assume Luffy to be able to resist the affect of the pollen to a degree, but since his observation haki is superior to Doflamingos by a comfortable degree, it is more likely that he would pop 2nd Gear and run out of range (but i forgot the range of the ability.. it is at least several kilometers, so if Luffy can't run away, he'd need to use Gear 4th to fly in the air.

How fast does the pollen travel once released? I'm sure that when he sees the buds blooming and mist erupting from it, he would fall back especially given that his enemy summoned the plants in the first place.

I'm suggesting if the 2.35gt from the massive 4.7gt explosion came from Kurama, which is debatable given that his bomb was intent on redirecting the other 5 coming at him and that they should not be a FULL tier below him in power despite Kurama being regarded as the most powerful of the 9.

The Kunai and Shurikan have usually shown normal feats (unless tagged with special bombs) and would require the user to apply his chakra in order to increase their power.

I find it strange that the Juubi didn't get out of Hashirama's ability... it's a country level character. But I find it to be a mix between PIS, the fact that the Juubi blasted himself with his own beast bomb, he was in a confined space and thus released the numerous monsters from his body, and that the Juubi isn't very intelligent. Hashirama would not logically be capable of holding the juubi down anyways given that I highly doubt he is to be even close to comparable to it. Also, it is DEFINITELY PIS that the Juubi didn't escape because Juubito broke out of several of the myoujinmon.
 
Well, since we do not know which point is false, and which is true, unless I can get a scan for it, I'm sticking to the fact that friendly fire isn't on.


Range depends honestly, it could be very high since Hashi's Mokuton can spread over a large area, pretty quickly.


Well, from what I've seen, the release of pollen is almost instantaneous. And the range might be too superior for either character to escape.


Tbh, that was a casual bijuu dama, since later on in the series, Naruto used full power Bijuu Damas, which far outclassed the first one.


Well, if you call being covered in fire while moving to strike enemies, without even showing the slightest signs of melting Normal, I guess they are pretty normal.


I think Juubi not getting Myoujinmon was pretty logical, since it was something made to restrain something like the Bijuu and due to its size.

Juubito>Juubi though, and the fact that Restraining Juubito is much harder since he's a very small target compared to the Juubi, so not exactly PIS.
 
Okay I guess we can just say Friendly fire is off then.

The pollen could not get high in altitude and the kage were able to get into the air as the flowers bloomed. Of course Tsunade warned them, but they were able to escape with some time to spare. Doflamingo is safe and so is Luffy if he pops Gear 4th, which be may have to unless the pollen has only minor effects on him.

Yes, later on, which was when Kurama also increased in power due to receiving the sage's power. But even so, suggesting that Kurama applied half of the force with a casual beat bomb is ridiculous due to the fact that it would suggest that none of the beasts could compare to him since he would be Island with his full body and they would all be sitting at Mountain. He's surely Small Island since his casual bijuu bomb could not be lower than 900MT even if you lowballed it.

Doflamingo could also strangely apply fire to his threads while he summons it from his body. Overheat is an example. But yeah, elemental based attacks are going to require a lot of energy behind them in order to get through their Armament haki especially since Doflamingo could break out of Aokiji's ice (both being very casual).

Juubi being trapped doesn't seem farfetched only due to him being recently brought back and that his intelligence is extremely questionable. He was only useful when Madara and Obito controlled him. Once he lost them, he went wild.

Juubito wasn't fully evolved when he broke from Myoujinmon and it is strange that he'd be casually capable of breaking out of several of them with ease while Juubi was just sitting there.

Anyways... since you brought the size thing up, that actually supports Luffy and Doffy escaping from the technique xD
 
Ah, but it is based off a chance. Tsunade knew what the tecnique was and could warn the kage in advance. Neither Doffy or Luffy know anything about it. I see Luffy breathing in the pollen here.


To be honest, all the five Bijuu Dama from the other Bijuu were uncharged Bijuu Dama's, and pretty weak.

The whole "Covered in fire" point, I was referring to the Kunai&Shuriken to show that they aren't normal iron.


Size isn't the only factor though, you need enough power to break out of Myojinmon, and power was one thing Juubito had.

It is just tough to capture Luffy/Doffy in Myojinmon due to their size, escapping is another issue ^_^
 
Doflamingo and Luffy are both vastly superior in speed compared to the kage. they'd have very little problem getting away. Also, Doflamingo could send his Black Knight in to retrieve Luffy if he were to fall unconscious at any point (it can act individually without Doflamingo being focused on it's movement). Before this turns into a "Doflamingo would never help Luffy" argument, I made a rule from the start that states that both parties have incentives to work together with no chance of betrayal.

they actually scale from Bee's beast bomb, still making them mountain level.

Well, I'd like to see the weapons compete with Doflamingo's threads.

Doflamingo doesn't need to move at all to fight. Let's say that he managed to get caught in Myoujinmon: he can sit idle and spam awakening attacks on Hashirama and Madara or he could use his awakened threads to destroy what ever is pinning him down... hell, he might actually be capable of turning the wood into threads, but considering chakra is involved and that Doflamingo has only been shown to be able to convert non-living material, i'm not going to assume that.

Luffy's rubbery body would make it easier for him to escape especially if he pops gear 4th.
 
Doffy&Luffy are vastly superior is speed true, but they still do not know how the Jutsu works, which the kages knew.

You could be massively faster than another character, but speed isn't really useful when you do not know what the Jutsu will do.

I wasn't really comparing Doffy's threads&Kunai/Shuriken. I was just showing that they can cut Luffy(Probably).


Doffy wont be able to turn Hashi's wood into threads imo, with it having chakra and all that.


Not really, Luffy's Limbs would escape, but not necessarily his body.
 
Doflamingo and Luffy both have experience with travelling the world. They've seen a lot of crazy things. If their opponent were to summon a massive amount of flowers, they would more than likely start thinking of them as a weapon of some sort and that would be confirmed the moment the buds start blooming. There is still the case of their pre-cognition, but I think their experience would allow them both to suspect that the flowers are poisonous as soon as they see them.

Doflamingo's normal threads had severe difficulties cutting Luffy despite having superior haki. Even Overheat only grazed Luffy when it came into contact. I don't think the ninja tools are going to be much of a factor in this fight.

Yeah, I think I suggested that I wouldn't even think it possible, but he can still turn the ground into threads. It would lead to the wooden pillars to fall over since there is no ground for them to sit on, or Doflamingo could destroy them.

Luffy getting his limbs free is actually going to result in his body being freed. Let's say he is pinned on his back with nothing by his head and arms hanging out, he could stretch out and bring his arms back imbued with haki using "Eagle Bazooka" to break out.
 
I'll try to keep this short.


Not Really, Doffy&Luffy wouldn't necessarily suspect that the flowers are going to release poisonous substances. Someone older than both of them(Ohnoki) didn't know much.


True. But those Kunai&Shuriken have shown things that shouldn't be possible. Still true that they won't harm Luffy.


Not Really, once Luffy is trapped, by the time he makes a move to get out from under the gates, Hashi would be over him, doing whatever he will to KO Luffy.
 
I feel like i have already presented enough reasoning before hand,and since new rounds have been added,i'll extend my votes.

Round 1-

Doflamingo Vs Madara-i really don't see how madara will actually kill doflamingo except a complete bisection or a decap,which is very much possible with the susanoo,and the fact that madara has used genjutsu before to stop enemies in their tracks and paralyze them while he deal the killing blow,But since madara's standard ability is nerfed,i don't see him catching doflamingo with the susanoo blade,maybe sometimes,maybe not.Doflamingo 7/10-mid high diff,(PS-Madara 7/10 mid diff,if genjutsu allowed)

Hashirama Vs Luffy-Again Hashirama would win a stock verse EQ match(8/10-mid diff)-he has a Lot of variety,offensive,defensive,and supplementary and tactical abilities.But a 20 minute gear 4 luffy ehhhhhhhhh,i am really torn on this match.

Round 2-

Doflamingo Vs hashirama-Hashi takes this Via versatility advantage

Luffy vs Madarad-Same thing as doffy vs madara,Madara can't really do anything to luffy except the PS blade,which he won't land on a noticably faster opponent without genjutsu,luffy 8/10-mid diff

What i am basically saying is hashi and madara would win all solo matches if these were stock verse Eq matches even if madara has no kurama. I.E. madara uses genjustu like he uses in combat and no buffs to luffy's gear 4th.

Same thing applies to the 2v2 match,even tho madara usually doesn't use Genjutsu,but he has used it to get out of situations and turn the tables sometimes,but he is no itachi,but this minor TP ability turns into a big deal against guys who have no defenses against mental invasion.

And let's not forget sharingan,which will completely look through the physical anatomy and working of doffy and luffy,which should lead madara to interesting conclusions and ideas.

But as it is-with GJ nerfed team OP wins 6/10 mid/high diff.
 
@Kaza

I was initially allowing Genjutsu due to Verse equalization, but people started suggesting that Madara could use Kamui and Izanami (as well as Izanagi, but I am allowing him access to it) when he has never showcase such abilities. There is also the argument that "neither Doflamingo and Luffy can escape from genjutsu from Madara", so to save myself the struggle of arguing against that, i banned Genjutsu, but i removed CoC since it gives both Luffy and Doflamingo AoE and a moderate boost on their physical attacks when in conjunction with armament haki (also knock out potential for whenever Madara/Hashirama are ever exhausted).

Votes added for round 1 and 2, but do you have anything to say about Doflamingo's durability advantage vs Hashirama? Hashirama is still Town+ in sage mode (his thousand true hands does have small island durability, but not Hashirama himself) while Doflamingo is Small Island+. That's a massive gap considering Doflamingo's AP equates to a few gigatons while Hashirama would be injured by several dozen kilotons.

Either way, i'm glad to see everyone saying which team will with with 6~7/10 probability :). I wanted this to be a highly controversal conclusion.

@Llama

About the pollen: while the kage were not expecting it, the jutsu has been shown to take a moment to cast, which could be enough to allow Doflamingo and Luffy to assess the situation. They could also instinctively attack or dodge the flowers out of instinct due to it being an enemy attack. The pollen taking an instant to cover the area is still impossible. Tsunade did have time to explain the ability and tell Gaara to take them into the air while some time to spare.

I understand that Hashirama would not sit idle while Luffy is trapped, but even so, why can't Doflamingo support him even if he is busy with Kurama and Madara? he has the environmental power that can help him stall all 3 from getting to Luffy if even for a few seconds.
 
Uh, Kages were expecting the pollen, based on what Tsunade said.


Doffy can't really help Luffy, since Madara is not really a weak opponent, and him in PS is all the more reason for Doffy not being able to instantly help.

Slowly Helping, could happen, instantly, no.
 
@Llama

Doflamingo himself does not need to help Luffy. If he does not have a Black Knight currently assaulting Madara or Hashirama, he could send one to support Luffy (though the likelyhood of it surviving an encounter with Hashirama even when with Luffy is pretty low).

Alright, I'll just assume that Doflamingo and Luffy do not escape without having inhaled small amounts of the pollen, which would somewhat fatigue Doflamingo and have very little effect on Luffy, but didn't the kage get up almost immediately after the pollen was dispersed?: http://www.***********.net/naruto/575/11

Edit: it turns out that both of us were actually wrong about Tsunade informing the Kage... http://www.***********.net/naruto/575/2 -- they instinctively fled to the skies since the forest of roots were charging at them.
 
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