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Doflamingo and Luffy vs (Alive) Madara and Hashirama

High 7-A wont happen with current feats. they will be staying 7-A :p... but i'm still trying to get MHS+ Doflamingo and Luffy.
 
I made and Edit to spice things up a bit...

Round 1 = 1v1

Round 2 = swapped 1v1

Round 3 = the real 2v2 fight (which all of us have already voted on... so far it is 3 to 3)

Everyone that has already voted should vote on the other two rounds as well :)
 
One thing for sure, luffy probably is going to lose in 1v1 since he need to use his gear 4 in order to keep up with the other, and he barely can maintain his gear 4 for more than couple of punches.

btw how you change your username?
 
you can only do it once

but about Luffy against Hashirama, I made a rule that he can maintain Gear 4th without being fatigued so that it would be fair.

he still gets fatigued vs Madara and in 2v2, though.
 
For Luffy vs Hashirama Probably still Hashirama except luffy can also do his gatling technique in his gear 4, since Hashirama can just spam his Shin Süsenju attack(like luffy gatling) with no problem.

for the other 1v1 match currently no comment, want to hear what other think.
 
Eh i think hashirama takes he fight against luffy,hard to say what happens in the beginning since hashi's stats are too vague in the lower end,but if he switches on sage mode and starts bringing out the big guns,hashi has stopped bijju bombs with simple wooden constructs,so i think "his wood" is something very durable then there's the dragon(which can partially incapacitate a tailed beast) the golem(caught a perfect susanoo blade) and the true thousand hands(that dwarfed kurama and obliterated a perfect susanoo clad armour from over kurama and injured him noticably),so i think hashi has more than enough ways to put down luffy,both being about the same speed with hashi being a little more skilled in battle.Hashi need to distract luffy first by either the flowering/normal forest keeping him busy or putting him to sleep,also he can use bringer of darkness to hamper his combat ability to an extent.All in all i see hashi winning more times than luffy.8/10 with low-mid diff

Doflamingo vs madara-Madara has MGS which gives him a better fighting chance against the strings of doflamingo,with detection,precog and stuff.Also not to mention Gunbai can reflect any attack back as wind realse.Btw i haven't read the manga but as far as i have seen the anime i don't remember madara using kamui,but if someone can point me to when it'd be appreciated,since i see kamui in madara's profile.Back to the match madara has enuff hax to evade/dodge/land a killing strike on doflamingo,still flamingo is at par with madara on stats,so he also can do some serious damage.but i think madara wins 6/10(mid-high diff) due to hax.

the team match,arguably hashirama is a tad bit above the power levels of madara,luffy and flamingo,and the true thousands hands can one shot both luffy and flamingo at the same time,also madara will help with hax,and hashi and madara are well aware of full range of each other's abilities and have fought with and against each other over several years and i think they will work muuuuuuuch better as a team(10/10,but mid diff)but if somehow you nerf the characters of luffy and flamingo and make this an equal team play match is still see hashi and madara winning (7/10) albeit this time with high diff
 
@Kazan -- Keep in mind that Madara does not have access to Kurama and I buffed Luffy in round 1 xD

I understand most of your reasoning for Hashirama vs Luffy, but Luffy has high resistance to blunt force with his rubber body. Hashirama is more likely to win, sure, but more likely with high-difficulty 8/10 since I'm making Luffy have more stamina imo.

About Doflamingo vs Madara: how does Madara have enough hax to deal with Doflamingo? Sharingan grants a better perspective to grant better reaction time, but not pre-cog iirc. Doflamingo has pre-cog to a basic degree with his level of Observation haki and he is 3 times faster than Madara (Mach 640+ vs Mach 230+). Kamui was used when he stole Kakashi's eye, but it is not one of his abilities. I would find Madara at a severe environmental advantage due to Doflamingo's awakening, and thus I'd think that Doflamingo would win with mid~high difficulty 8/10 times.

Doflamingo vs Hashirama could go either way but I see doflamingo pulling through if my underestimation of Hashirama's chakra reserves is close to accurate. both have levels of Regenerationn (though Doflamingo's just reconstructs his body but does nothing about the damage or blood loss) but he can do it passively while Hashirama needs chakra to continuously do so. Hashirama's ultimate attack would also drain his stamina and Doflamingo can mitigate the force to a degree with his Billow-white and Flap thread while also defending with waves of threads. He would clearly take damage, however, and both would continue fighting until the other drops. I'd see Doflamingo winning Extreme difficulty 7/10 times.

Luffy vs Madara would also be a closer fight. I wont go into it but i find it inconclusive atm.

I stand by my team fight claim with Doffy and Luffy winning.
 
@Cin i think we agree on hashi vs luffy,and the thing with doflamingo and madara.

here are some excrepts from the naruto wiki

"The user is granted incredible clarity of perception, enabling them to read lips[17] or mimic something like pencil movements.[18] Sasuke Uchiha's Sharingan was even able to see on a cellular level.[19] In combat, this allows them to see fast-moving objects and, once fully developed, offers some amount of predictive capabilities: they can anticipate an opponent's next move based on the slightest muscle tension in their body and act accordingly to dodge or intercept.[8] Although a Sharingan user can see these things, they also need the physical ability to actually act on the visual information."

and as they are at the same speed,madara can see and predict everything doflamingo is about to do and also react to it.as you see it's more than basic precog.

Also the sharingan allows the user to completely memorise any sort of jutsu either chakra or physical in nature with nigh complete accuracy,hence the longer the fight goes,madara will learn all of doflamingo's pure physical moves,dunno how it's useful,might come in handy.

and as kamui is mentioned in madara's profile(i still don't remember him using it,so if someone who can point me to time when madara used kamui would be helpful since it'll make the fight helluva easier),kamui is unholy hax,being able to phase through attacks,make your attacks teleport and appear elsewhere(example-inside your opponent) also to simple BFR your opponent.

Also two big sharingan Hax,

izanagi and izanami-izanagi allows you to warp reality for a short time,being able to rewrite destiny and stuff,needless to say,even tho he'd lose one eye,izanagi is an instant win.

Izanami-traps the opponent in an infinite time loop for a BFR,both are uncounterable and unavoidable unless you have MSD or rinnegan yourself.

as for team,yea since hashi and madara can win both of their respective matches,i don't think they'll havee problem winning the team match
 
Doflamingo is Mach 640+ while Madara is Mach 230+ according to Doflamingo's page and Hashirama's page.

prediction =/= able to react to the muscle tensions and mimicing and realizing their abilities. He can only ...'predict' things within his eye-sight while Observation haki grants Doflamingo 360 degree vision and real precognition, which allows him to invision danger that is about to occur, giving him more time to react. Doflamingo's foresight is superior since he can full on detect the danger briefly before it happens. And due to superior speed, he'll be able to easily act on it.

Doflamingo may actually have more struggles in close combat as the fight goes on (which would be unlikely as Town+ vs Mountain would be their CQC comparison), but once he starts applying his awakening, Madara will be whittled down pretty quickly if his Susanoo is broken. Also, Madara would be unable to fully predict Armament haki triggering since no gestures are required for it to be activated.

Kamui was only used when Madara stole Kakashi's sharingan to get to Obito. He CAN NOT use it. It will not be a factor in this fight especially when this is Madara around the time he had his death-battle with Hashirama.

Izanagi would be a double-edged sword -- Madara losing vision and risking failing in damaging Doflamingo. and Izanami = genjutsu which is ineffective.

Madara would lose to Doflamingo 1-on-1 given that Doflamingo has passive Regenerationn (though it isn't anywhere near perfect) from his threads and superior speed + physical durability and range with his threads, which cover dozens of kilometers (Overheat, Bird cage, and his awakening range when applying Everwhite)

I would find Doflamingo vs Hashirama to be a near-stalemate if not for it being thread vs wood.

Luffy loses to Hashirama but I do not know about Madara... he has a massive speed advantage, but he loses in most categories outside of that.

I still think Doflamingo + Luffy beats Madara + Hashirama due to speed, superior physical capabilities, and range on top of stamina. Doflamingo fought Gear 4th Luffy for 20+ minutes (as stated in the manga) with his organs in the middle of repairing and he managed to survive a blow to the torso strong enough to make him spew blood and fly into the flower hill, creating a small crater and even managed to decimate the Flowerhill with his physical strength after that.

Scans: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/781/11 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/781/16 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/785/9 (top right gives time passed since DF awakening), http://www.***********.net/one-piece/786/10

OP characters have been suggested to be capable of fighting at high intensity for days on end (Ace + Jinbe = 5 day brawl and Aokiji vs Akainu = 10 days) -- Hashirama and Madara fought for a day. I know that this is a stupid example due to the nature of their fight, but that's a big difference... Doflamingo still fought with his organs ruined.

I pretty much made a rule for both sides being obligated to help eachother with no complaints, so this would pretty much be a Crocodile/Luffy situation in impel down but more willing to team up.

Hashirama would obviously injure both combatants, but Doflamingo would be harmed more than Luffy by the Thousand true hand attack since it is a blunt attack and Luffy's rubber body nearly nullifies blunt force. Luffy took Ferocious tiger (A near Island level attack) with almost no damage due to his resistance to such attacks.

I see Team OP winning with High difficulty in the end.
 
ok now i see doflamingo winning,but izanagi is still a certain win,while i now agree that doflamingo wins his match with madara,izanagi+true thousand hands is unanswerable by team luffy,hashi and madara win 7-10 with very high diff
 
I don't see Izanagi being a factor due to two reasons:

1) Madara never used it (he may not even be fully aware of the power) even when Hashirama nearly killed him. While it is listed under his abilities, he never showcased it. He may not be capable of that ability much like he has never shown Amaterasu. And 2) Both Doflamingo and Luffy would be fully capable of reacting and defending against such a tactic (Luffy more-so) due to their impressive reaction speed and 360 degree field of vision (Doflamingo was being distracted by Law's words and still managed to catch his blade from a blind-spot after being tricked by Shambles: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/768/5 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/768/6)

About Thousand hands:

While I agree that both Doflamingo and Luffy would be caught in the attack, due to the amount of prep-time required and that Madara would have to escape the line of fire, Doflamingo would use Billow-white clad wish haki to mitigate the force while Luffy's rubber body almost nullifies the damage (they'd both also attempt to evade as many strikes as possible since it would be near-impossible for either of them to stop each and every blow). Doflamingo would likely be the only one wounded from that, and as a result, I would see Luffy counter-attacking with Gear 4th while Doflamingo fights using his awakening while he attempts to repair the damage. True Thousand Hands uses a lot of chakra and even if Hashirama were to wound one of them, he'd be exhausted after fighting for quite some time and then having to use such an ability.

Madara would use Susanoo as a means to try to stop Luffy, but Doflamingo would be more than enough to slow him down especially with waves of threads attacking him, which would force Madara's attention to Doflamingo. Doflamingo would have clear difficulties blocking and evading Madara's perfect Susanoo and likely take a direct blow, but he'd more than likely defend with haki and mitigate the damage to a point in which it would only have a moderate affect. Hashirama would be unlikely to completely stop the assault from Luffy and Doflamingo, but he'd more than likely survive while I see Luffy running out of time while dealing damage to both Madara and Hashirama, depleting most of their chakra.

Luffy would be immobile while an almost repaired Doflamingo--still shakey from the previous attack--tries to finish the two off while they are winded. While I do not see that being the case, I don't see Doflamingo failing to keep them pushed back for the 10 minutes Luffy would need to come back. He'd then take out either Madara or Hashirama (or injure both of them further) with another Gear 4th attack while Doflamingo remains standing, more than capable enough to kill the both of them.

I have to suggest that Doflamingo and Luffy would win due to Luffy's body absorbing the impact from Hashirama's most powerful attack, especially if he didn't take much damage from Ferocious Tiger and Doflamingo can repair himself over time while supporting Luffy with his threads.
 
I just realized now that Doflamingo + Law would have been a better team, but this is a good pair given that both have naturally good speed and range.
 
accepted-but don't you think hashirama and madara would realise that? i am pretty sure,madara will then go after luffy,and hashirama has probably also used water release,and i am pretty sure they will work to find a weakness,and if they find that,we all know the that element releases are directly realated to the amount of chakra the uses posses,hashirama and madara(after hashi finds the weakness and madara copies him) can literally flood the entire battlefield.that does something to devil fruit users i suppose.And as for blunt force,yep since you say hashirama already knows that,he'd let madara deal with luffy,since almost entierity of hashirama's offense relies on blunt force damage,but,the forest can incapacitate entire tailed beasts,so that'd play a huge factor,since that's the first thing hashirama will do turn the entire field into a forest then he can make sneak attacks anytime,anywhere.fair point izanagi.

back to madara vs luffy,since i am not very familiar with one piece(a few episodes some times) how's luffy resistance to fire release? and are databook "stats" accepted,madara is stated to be able to use all nature transformations and since he is encountering a strange enemy type he might test out all.excpet the water thing.

how does forest incap then ten thousand hands and then the meteorites sound?since the meteorite thing doesn't really tax madara,i am sure doflamingo is dead by now,and luffy is a bit mid hurt,and then madara can fight for a bit before hashi joins is(although it was never shown or hinted that he was tired after summoning the buddha statue,but since you say)also even after using the true thousand hands the statue still remains and can detach from the arms and fight,which is about like what? 1.5X bigger than the perfect susanoo?,if we scale it to the wood golem,it's about anything 2 to 3X times stronger.
 
Even if both Madara and Hashirama start releasing water (Which I wouldn't know how they would realize given that Hashirama would be using his Wood-style in a fight as intense as this), Doflamingo's birdcage is active, meaning that he would take to the skies with his threads and Luffy would also go to the skies.

That's assuming that Hashirama and Madara can create water that can go across 43 kilometers of land and can be waist high (which they can not without expending a lot of their chakra... and that's still unlikely). Luffy and Doflamingo would simply have to fight on top of buildings, the King's plateau, or the Flower Hill. Doflamingo would be able to fight from virtually anywhere within his cage.

Hashirama's surprise attacks would have little effect given Observation haki's ability to grant the 360 degree range of vision for both Luffy and Doflamingo and that both of them still far outstrip the opponents in speed.

Luffy is adept in Armament haki, which would allow him to passively have invisible armor. He and Doflamingo have shown the ability to resist cold and heat (Doflamingo especially vs Aokiji's freezing and Sanji's kicks: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/699/5 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/724/3) -- Luffy also uses fire in his attacks via his Gear 2nd overdrive (or commonly known as his hawk strikes, which are clad in haki). Sure, he'd be damaged by Madara's fire, but not to an insane degree.

Fair point with Madara's meteorite, but he'd be screwing his team over especially since Doflamingo's bird cage is active and has sliced meteorite like butter. The shock will affect both Madara and Hashirama and Doflamingo could already turn the rubble around him into threads, so it would be in Team OP's favor: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/751/6 ...

Even if the meteor was falling in sizable chunks and Team Naruto were using their avatars to defend themselves, Doflamingo would easily stop them with Spiderthread especially since Onoki's Lightened Boulder and Gaara's sand could stop one of them (Onoki's Doton being City level while Gaara is Town... Doflamingo with a Mountain-level AP should be able to stop it with very little effort on his part)

Hashirama's attempts to attack the ground would take a toll on his chakra, but even if he did so before using his attack, Doflamingo and Luffy can still fly and evade the strikes mid-air even if each of them takes several blows.

I would mention that Hashirama's wood would be fuel for Doflamingo's ability, but given that someone suggested that Hashirama's could not due to being made of chakra and that Doflamingo never showcased turning plants/wood into threads, I conceeded.

If both Madara and Hashirama spend their chakra trying to give themselves an environmental advantage, I'd see Team OP's chances of victory more likely since their enemies would be draining their stamina and wouldn't be able to hold up their defenses for as long.
 
so that's what a birdcage does? interesting,while i see the speed advantage,i am still giving it to madara and hashirama because of their versatlity,and doflamingo and luffy have ummm less options and the 24 hour feat is more than enough for this fight,no matter which side wins,this fight isn't gonna be long,because Doflamingo can be put out of comission by a one two combo by hashirama and madara.Don't think stamina is really gonna play a part in this battle,both parties have more than enough to make it to the end dead or alive.while indeed doflamingo might land hits or kill someone,it goes without saying he's actually the weak link here,considering the hardest hitter of the lot can't harm luffy he can more than squish flamingo.And i just noticed all the times i bring up true one thousand hands you always say (doflamingo is hurt) why? as far as i read he's been brought down by a gear 4 luffy whoose AP is mountain level,how does he even survive a large mountain level attack?
 
About Doflamingo's durability -- there WAS a calculation that was accepted, making Luffy's KKG a Large Mountain Attack, but that's irrelevant as of now so I will not use that in my following argument.

Other points would be that Doflamingo took several life-threatening blows from both Luffy and Law and continued fighting until Luffy finished him off by hitting him with KKG, which resulted in his body slamming into the Island, unearthing several kilometers (in diameter) of land and he continued into the underground port and created a crater. I'd argue that he would have gotten up from that, but within a few minutes, the marines found and wrapped him in sea-stone, and I can't just assume that anyways: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/790/16 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/791/2 -- the surprising thing is that he survived the blow and was seen later on without and visable damage on his body outside of a bandage wrapped around his head. He took plenty of strikes from Luffy and Law before Gear 4th was even active and he still tanked 1 punch + took 3 direct hits and could continue fighting due to his mild Regenerationn and his tenacity.

I know that Madara and Hashirama have shown to be capable of fighting for longer periods, but it is very likely that their fight went similarly to Sasuke vs Naruto's final fight (this is just a presumption since we didn't see how their fight went down) and that would suggest that Madara and Hashirama would both be at a severe disadvantage if they started losing their Avatars since they both have Multi-Cityblock level durability with their physical bodies. A single blow from Doflamingo or Luffy would be crippling.

I'll turn the question back at you XD: Which is more likely, a person who can tank several hundred megatons of force with some difficulty being stumped by a gigaton+ assault or someone who can only take a few Kilotons being incapacitated by several hundred megatons of force?

Let's say that Doflamingo can easily tank 100 megatons (lowest end for Mountain) with little difficulty and takes a Gigaton (1,000 megatons) of force at once -- I'd see him being damaged severely to the point of bones breaking and that he would immediately have to start repairing his body

Let's say that Madara's Susanoo gives out briefly due to Gear 4th and Billow-White and he only has his regular durability to tank the next incoming strike: he can only take 1 kiloton of force (high of Multi-city block) easily, but if he took a 100 Megaton strike, he'd likely be rendered immobile and even fall unconscious with mortal wounds... it could even kill him.

^the difference between 100 megatons and 1 gigaton is 1 to 10 (using low end for both) -- the difference between 1 kiloton to 100 megatons is 1 to 100,000

Doflamingo is much more likely to survive the assault of True Thousand Hands then Madara tanking a blow from Luffy's Gear 4th or Doflamingo's haki infused "Ham-string" attack.

I didn't realize the difference between their durability being that massive at first, but as long as Madara and Hashirama can maintain their avatar's they will be able to hold out against their attacks for some time.

I say Doflamingo would only be "hurt" since he would not be taking the full brunt of the attack since he'd try to stop it with his waves of threads and evade any that get through. It is more than likely that he'd be hit by a few of them.
 
well,agreed on points,but then there's genjutsu,Kinda like normal telepathy,as le mod says.And i think it's fair,since we don't see hakis anywhere except OP universe,for verse equalization,genjutsu has to work too.
 
wait, how does Genjutsu work on this wiki to make it universally fair? Like what features remain and what features were removed?

But about haki -- the only thing that wouldn't work is armament haki's ability to hit people that go intangible outside of the verse (like Juvia from Fairy Tail, for example). I would argue that Observation haki works regardless in terms of pre-cognition, but you could argue that the visual range wouldn't fully detect certain things (like chakra) but I argue that their life force could be detected.

btw have I changed your mind on who would win :3?!
 
looks like it but still conflicted but some points are very clear.

hardest hitter in match is hashi-but his arsenal is blunt force trauma,that gives luffy an edge.

madara is the weakest of the bunch unless genjutsu is allowed(i think should be)

i don't know OP characters resistance to town-city level TP(low ball scaling for kaguya with planet level TP)can be anything from mid-high diff win for hashi and madara.

As far as i see things like Haki and genjutsu are passive abilities that affect/relate not to you but your opponents in direct combat,things like precog,TP and stuff.

But it's your match to keep allow haki,genjutsu or discard them or selectively bar one,the other or both from the match.
 
I just find that Genjutsu wouldn't work given that it is stated to manipulate the chakra-points in the brain, but hey... :(. Armament haki wouldn't work on someone who could go intangible outside the OP verse, but given that it doesn't apply to Madara and Hashirama, it doesn't matter. One can argue that aura detection from Observation haki would be ineffective, but the pre-cognition would still work as well as the sight given.

Madara and Hashirama's physical bodies are weak in comparison to their avatars, which can shrug off City+ Attacks and can handle Mountain attacks, but several blows from Doflamingo or Luffy would start breaking them down (though Madara can restore his susanoo over time so long as he has chakra) and if Madara or Hashirama take a direct blow from Doflamingo's "Athlete" or Luffy's 3rd/4th gear strikes, they'd be fairly screwed.

Luffy and Doflamingo are both adept in using CoC in conjunction with their physical strikes, which would boost the AoE of the attack force to a degree. While they were clashing, their CoC clash was strong enough to blast Law over a dozen meters from his original position and the entire Flower Hill was shaking.
 
ok,let's say i were to say "illusion techniques" as far as i see illusion techniques are allowed in matches and that's what genjutsu literally translates into,ao since according to all the things in fiction more like asian fiction everything, the world is made up of yin and yang,and genjustu is yin maipulation,so doesn't matter the verse it still works.so yea,same,the OP is physically stronger but the hashi team has more things to choose from and as far as i see as OP guys have no specific resistance to TP MSD genjutsu will mindrape them.

Also verse equalization is necessary otherwise i can easily argue that place the OP characters out of their verse and as well as the naruto characters.If you do that hashi and madara lose chakra and flamingo and luffy lose all the devil fruit abilities and i think you fairly understand who'd win in that match.
 
If Madara and Hashirama didn't have chakra and fought Doflamingo + Luffy without their devil fruits, they'd get whooped due to both Luffy and Doflamingo still having haki and the fact that both of them still apply plenty of force to dish out plenty of damage.

But here is the thing about what Doflamingo and Luffy's losses would be as the fight drags on: it has not been fully explained yet, but haki's effectiveness reflects the user. Doflamingo's haki was easily able to break through Luffy's when they started fighting due to Doflamingo's superiority over him, but their haki ended up balancing out and even went into Luffy's favor when Doflamingo was severely wounded by Law and Luffy's combined attacks. Their Devil fruits would still be in full effect, but their haki would gradually weaken over the course of the fight since using it to an intense degree drains stamina. Luffy is only adept at Armament, so covering nearly all of his body in a thick coating for 20+ minutes while using Gear 4th resulted in him being fatigued for several minutes.

If we're going to include Genjutsu, I may want to restrict it in the rules if you're willing to find it fair: afterall, Madara himself hardly uses it and it wouldn't be fair to suggest that Doflamingo and Luffy would have no way to escape it when they each have a sixth sense from Observation haki.

^I'll at least add that to the "basic knowledge" so that Doflamingo and Luffy would automatically avoid looking at Madara's eyes (Luffy can fight with his eyes closed effectively due to his level of observation haki. Doflamingo is questionable since his Observation haki is basic)

About the elemental resistances: Doflamingo and Luffy can both mitigate or even nullify intense heat and cold with armament haki, but they have shown incapable of passively doing so (Doflamingo is a good example... taking Red Hawk with no protection after being caught off guard and relaxed left him with a burn: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/759/15)

If Madara, Hashirama, Luffy, and Doflamingo were fighting in a way that ended up with all 4 of them fatigued and out of energy, Doflamingo would likely be the only one capable of fighting further since he can sit idle and use his awakening effectively while Luffy would likely be rendered immobile and Madara + Hashirama without chakra would result in them being unable to take blows from Doflamingo, who can still dish out at least City+ blows without haki since his awakened threads with no haki could keep Luffy at bay.

We're still looking at four 7-A fighters, one of them having a high 7-A wide ranged attack but the other team having 3x their speed. Both sides have healing to a degree (Team Naruto's being much superior due to Hashirama's regenerative capabilities).

I don't entirely approve of Genjutsu, but if I must include it, I'll add a section in the rules stating that Doflamingo and Luffy know about Genjutsu in general and that looking in Madara's eyes would result in them being placed in danger due to it.

I still see this fight ending with team OP winning with relative high difficulty due to reasons listed before and Doflamingo's staying power even when using attacks infused with haki since he could fight someone of Luffy's caliber (and nearly win) while he suffered intense blood loss and damage to his organs.

If at any point in the fight that Hashirama is brought within melee range of Luffy or Doflamingo, he will likely be killed by their blows. Luffy would aim to assault him with combination strikes while Doflamingo would likely take an arm. Hashirama, unlike Madara, has not shown that he can just keep his body within his wood-style avatar. If Luffy or Doflamingo got close and avoided his retaliations, they'd likely land a strong blow, wounding Hashirama, unless of course Madara lets Hashirama stay within his Susanoo for the duration of the fight, but that too would pose a problem since they would not be spread out and would be dealing with both Luffy and Doflamingo's assault, which would make it harder to counter-attack.

If Hashirama were to be injured, Doflamingo would possibly grapple him with Parasito and force him to attack Madara, making it into a 3v1 until Hashirama can escape from the strings (which, with a town level durability, he would not be able to unless in Sage mode, which he may not be able to enter unless he can do so without weaving signs).
 
geez,i said put them out of their respective verses,and once you take them out of their all powers seize working except the pure physical and mental potential they have developed.that also means no "powers" and no powers means no powers,IDK why you brught up the haki thing,when i am sure i made myself very clear with that line.

if you are making a match,either equalize the verses or put them both out of their verses.that means no devil fruit and no haki i don't understand why that's so hard to understand anything that only appears in OP get's ruled out same with naruto.
 
KazarianFahs said:
geez,i said put them out of their respective verses,and once you take them out of their all powers seize working except the pure physical and mental potential they have developed.
if you are making a match,either equalize the verses or put them both out of their verses.that means no devil fruit and no haki i don't understand why that's so hard to understand anything that only appears in OP get's ruled out same with naruto.
Click to expand...
Again under any circumstances since OP characters show no specific resistance to even normal TP they fall easy prey to MSD genjutsu off the bat if you apply verse equalization before they can do anything.And if you decide to do the other thing,without the Haki and devil fruit powers(or any sort of powers),both either hashirama or madara without chakra,ninjutsu or genjutsu(since taijutsu is just martial arts practice and body conditioning and doesn't require chakra) can 1v2 them in a fight.either way,hashi and madara win 9/10 with low/mid diff.in both situation 1 and 2 madara and hashirama win,more easily so in situation 2.
 
sure ;) we're going in circles anyways. But Genjutsu--using the statement from the wiki and manga--is ineffective against people outside the verse.
 
it's your battle,if you wanna rule out something,i can't do anything about it,your match,your rules,i was just pointing out the balance issues.if you still rule out genjutsu or don't put them out of their verses,then doflamingo and luffy win via multiple advatages,madara isn't even a factor in the match.
 
I don't want to make it unfair by giving Doflamingo and Luffy an edge, but I'll make an effort to make it fair after removing Genjutsu.

But to point something out, Luffy has a disadvantage over the other two given that he needs Gear 4th to do anything more than moderate damage to either of their avatars and that by the time he can start wearing their chakra out, he'd be rendered immobile for some time and wouldn't be as effective by the time he regains his haki and stamina.

I'll remove Luffy and Doflamingo's CoC so that they can not end the fight or enhance their strikes further with it and remove genjutsu. I'll make an exception for Izanagi and let Madara use it even though he has no knowledge or ability to use it iirc... How does that sound?
 
genjustsu is literally the only passive abilites that naruto characters posses(even then not all of them have it) and doesb't CoC affect only weak willed individuals? how's it even a factor? the match is still uncertain until you pin down rules,if you rule out genjutsu no way madara and hashirama are winning,given that madara loses his trump card in this match,and hashirama can only do moderate harm to luffy,but is fully capable of obliterating doflamingo.it's doflamingo kills madara,hashirama kills doflamingo,luffy kills hashirama.since as you say he's "immune" to blunt force trauma (should beat hulk too).
 
and my point again it's a part of their abilites,doesn't matter how it works,if you put up two verses against one another,both have access to their full range of abilities.
 
and you are better off using sasuke and naruto anyway,since their stats and abilites are more well defined unlike hashi whose are very vague and madara for which we don't have much showings for his alive form.
 
I would agree about Genjutsu removal being ridiculous, but Madara rarely utilizes it in a serious fight and Hashirama does not use it in a serious fight either. They are not like Kurenai, who's kit consists almost purely of Genjutsu.

Madara has a high level in both Taijutsu and Ninjutsu while also being capable of using perfect susanoo without any debilitating effected to his body due to Perfect MS. He can use wide-ranged Flame release and can resort to memorized ninjutsu techniques if needed. He only used Genjutsu with his eyes and did so rarely.

I disagree with your claim that Madara would be a non-factor. His Perfect Susanoo has sharp blades and can generate enough force to destroy a Mountain with a single strong swing from several kilometers away. Luffy would need to evade such an attack or else he'd take considerable damage especially since he is weaker against cutting abilities. His speed would be his only way of beating Madara since he can not take more than a few blows from a blade that carries hundreds of megatons of force without risking death.

CoC isn't limited to simply knocking weaklings unconscious. That would make the ability seem incredibly useless in a serious fight.

CoC projects the user's will outwards which would kill or incapacitate opponents considerably weaker than the user, but when used against foes of comparable or equal willpower, being used alone would have a very minor effect outside of being a means of slowing the opponent down. When used in conjuction with physical blows, it sends shockwaves which increases the force of the blow itself while also increasing the range of the strike. Luffy and Doflamingo's CoC clash blasted Law away from the immediate area and further damaged the palace while shaking the Flower hill. Doflamingo used CoC in conjunction with "Athlete", which allowed him to send Luffy flying with enough force that would have had Luffy thrown off of the Flower Hill if Trebol did not stupidly catch him: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/9

Scans of CoC being used in combat: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/716/19 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/2 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/3 , http://www.***********.net/one-piece/782/8 (bottom left panels)

Removing CoC would actually weaken both Doflamingo and Luffy considerably since it can boost their attack potency by some degree and would certainly hit Madara and Hashirama since their CoC range stretches almost half a dozen kilometers in diameter since, as shown in one of the panels, it instantly covered most of the flower hill.
 
eh,yea,but still,since i have argued already that both madara and hashirama can one shot luffy and doflamingo which you seem to Ignore,and i have already said,this fight won't be long,it's either OP blitzes them or they one shot OP,this isn't really a fight that would even go for a long time,the only thing doflamingo and luffy can and need to do is break down madara and hashiramas defenses which are considerably strong all the while avoiding being one shotted,since you don't agree to that i don't see what are you trying to do,this isn't an "even" match,it's one side rekts another match. let me put up a scenario,madara does multiple slashes on perfect susanoo and cuts off the bird cage completely,all the while completely obliterating the battlefield,and hashirama fills it with punches,now the stamina thing,i'll say it again,it was never implied or shown that they were tired,there's no such mention it's just that hashirama won after 24 hours however when naruto and sasuke fought,it ended in stale mate,because they seem to have almost similar amount of chakra to madara and hashirama but while madara and hashi are large mountain busters(Arguments can be made of being multiple large mountain busters,they are on ATLEAST large mountain level) naruto and sasuke were at multi continent level after the SOSP powers went,so it's only logical madara and hashi's reserve is likely atleast tens of times better.since they don't nearly use as much devastating attacks.what say?
 
Okay, let me try to make a rebuttal on the points you are making:

Madara is 7-A in perfect susanoo. High 7-A with Kurama under his control, which is restricted due to Kurama being a 3rd party and that it would make it into a 3v2 and I wanted it to be 2v2.

Hashirama is 7-A in Sage mode, "At least High 7-A" with his True Thousand Hands... still "High 7-A".

One shot by what? two 7-As vs two 7-As where-as Hashirama only has ONE ability that is higher than 7-A and Luffy would be able to easily survive that attack as he has shown being capable of taking a blunt Small Island Attack from Fujitora (http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=26604 (and it is being used on this wikia)) without taking no more than superficial damage: http://www.***********.net/one-piece/799/5.

Mountain level durability can tank Mountain level attacks with moderate effort. A Large Mountain (which is roughly 10~43 times stronger than the low end Mountain/1.1~4.4 times stronger than the high end) attack would not be capable of one shotting a Mountain level in durability if they are prepared to take the assault.

The only reason that I think this fight would take considerable time is that Doflamingo and Luffy would not be able to destroy Madara's susanoo with just a few combination attacks especially since Madara can perpetually restore his susanoo so long as he has chakra and Hashirama's attack would hurt Luffy and break through Doflamingo's defenses and likely wound him. They'd possibly be able to avoid nearly all of the strikes anyways especially since Doflamingo could avoid Luffy's hawk gatling from several meters distance without being hit once.

I'm not 'agreeing' to your suggestions as I have actually done my research towards both parties and what is accepted on each of their pages for their respective Keys.

I found this to be a fun 2 versus 2 fight since it seemed to be close and gave my opinion as to who would win and waited for people to give me rebuttals so that we could discuss why we think each could win using the keys and any calcuation provided on their pages.

I think I will stop making fights that could "go either way", but that would ruin the fun.
 
Yes,but since most of madara's and hashirama's alive stats are vague and unknown and we haven't nearly seem them in as much battles as luffy or doflamingo,it's quite not an even match,even if they are equal in stats.we only know proper stats of composite madara,hashirama has barely done 5 techniques on screen.
 
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