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Doctor Who Stuff

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GHG4589

GHG4589

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Infinite dimensions feat:

"A really powerful vortex that drags into itself anything that comes into its trajectory. A vortex made up of an infinite number of well, levels for want of a better description. And if they seem to diminish as they get towards the bottom of the vortex, rest assured, it's an illusion. For this vortex has no bottom. It is, being constructed of chronon energy, and thus temporal in nature, endless. Eternal. Bottomless, topless, middleless."

That's pretty much implied that the Time Vortex has infinite levels of dimensions, as it's constructed by chronon energy and temporal in nature, which means infinite space-time.


The higher dimensions in Doctor Who always treats as superior than the lower all the time:

-Many beings have to decreased their powers just to not accidentally destroys the universe, like the Great Intelligence and Fenric. The Grace is too large to enter the lower dimensions and space-time due to being infinitely larger than said dimensions and space-time.

-The higher-dimensions being always see the lower to be inferior than them, 6th-dimensional beings like Chronovores see the lower dimensions such as time and possibilities as nothing but food, the Six-Fold God see the Chronovores as nothing and of course, stomps them. The Grace, whom exists beyond multiversal dimensions sees the Six-Fold God who exist lower than them as nothing and used the Guardians of Time as their agents, one member of this race alone easily stomped both White Guardia and Black Guardia.

-Kronos has to create his avatar, "Paul Kairos", to manifested in the lower dimensions to not accidentally destroys it.

-Many living beings underwent psychological and physiological changes, and were usually driven insane when percieve the higher dimensions, due to its infinitely superior nature.

-The Doctor stated that the higher dimensions is being its own multiverses that exists beyond the multiverse.
 
I think the quote about the Time Vortex being comprised of infinite levels is really vague, not really sure if it actually warrants High 1-B. Is there any more context to it? As in, what exactly are those levels?
 
It is described as all "time and space", and "dimension":

"'How! How can you touch me! I'm intangible. I am across all time and space. I am everywhere at once.'

'No,' the Doctor said, pained, exhausted and just a littleangrily.

'You are trapped here. By me. One solitary individual against your omnipotence. And I will beat you.'

'How?'

'Because I am... the... Doctor!' And he threw himself into the spiralled crucible, dropping downwards into the dimensionally transcendental abyss, accompanied by the screeching Monica/Lamprey, sending shards of blue light around them as they fell."


and again:

"the energy from the assembled Doctors battering the two figures, distorting them along every dimensional plane"
 
@GHG4589

Yeah, but where exactly is the evidence that said dimensional planes co-relate to the levels of the Time Vortex? That seems like a baseless assumption to me.

Also, isn't "Dimensionally Transcendental" just a fancy word for "it's bigger on the inside than in the outside" in Doctor Who?
 
@Ultima Reality

Said dimensional planes was referred to the Spiral, which formed the axis of Time Vortex.

"Monica looked up to the ceiling. 'I'm coming for you, Doctor!' And in a flash of light she resumed her Lamprey form and vanished straight into the heart of the Spiral that formed the axis of the space-time vortex."

And yes, like Zach said, while this term can be used to reffered to the inside of the TARDIS, it also can be used for other things, and this isn't talking about the TARDIS, it was referred to the Vortex.
 
What GHG4589 is saying makes sense

I am not sure about 1-A pre-universe however. There were still other multiverses out there and the infinite levels of the time vortex would only scale to the Guardians, Omniversal stuffs, and the vortex itself.
 
Like Ultima, I would also like better evidence for that each higher level really is an infinite number of times greater than each preceding one.
 
@Ant

Is in the OP

Ultima just ask for evidence that said dimensional planes co-relate to the levels of the Time Vortex.

I also stated that in the old thread, which you are already agreed.

AAgreed
 
I do not see direct proof for the the levels of the time vortex correspond to spatial dimensions that are treated as infinitely larger than the preceding ones. Sorry.
 
These quotes may be important. Almost all mid-tier stuff should be upgraded from High 1-C to 1-B at least.


The Transcendental Beings existed "before" the universe (11-d universe):

[Like all the Transcendental Beings, the Eternals had existed since before the universe had formed ― an eternity in the most literal sense. - The Quantum Archangel]


About the Void:


[RAJESH: And what's the Void?

DOCTOR: The space between dimensions. There's all sorts of realities around us, different dimensions, billions of parallel universes all stacked up against each other. The Void is the space in between, containing absolutely nothing. Imagine that. Nothing. No light, no dark, no up, no down, no life, no time. Without end. My people called it the Void. The Eternals call it the Howling. But some people call it Hell. - Army of Ghosts]


1-B stuff fot the Time Lords:

['The Starman?'


'Give the girl a big round of applause. Yes, they're dangerous entities, born when stars collapse,hen they become black holes and white dwarfs and red dwarfs and wormholes, or whatever youcall them in your neck of the intergalactic woods. When they collapse they alter the shape of spaceand they alter the shape of time, and sometimes a Starman is created, a cosmic being with primitive consciousness. And if you're not careful, they can escape from their own time and go trampling through existence, wiping it clean and rewriting history, rewriting the laws of science itself. I suppose you could call them gods, if you wanted, and it was always one of the duties of the Time Lords to police the universe and snap the cuffs on them when they popped up where they shouldn't. Nasty things, you know, gods, they don't much care for anyone other than themselves. Don't like any competition. So off I went to try to head this Starman off at the pass.'


'Why did it look like there were two of them?' Ali asked, remembering those two ghost-like giants towering above the trees.


'Yeah, he looked like twins, and it looked like they weren't really there,' said the Doctor. 'That's because it was existing in several different dimensions at once. Now, this orb ―' he picked up the silver ball from where it had been sitting in a cradle on the control console ― 'was created in a very similar way to the Starman. It has the power of a collapsed star in it. It was made by a very clever,and not very nice, character called the Exalted Holgoroth of All Tagkhanastria. And he was no better than the bloody Starman! He was only really interested in using the orb to build a space empire. So I thought I'd kill two pterodactyls with one stone. I paid a visit to the Holgoroth, pretending to be an emissary from the Crab Nebula, and I stole his orb right out from under his nose ― which is an exciting story I'll tell you one day if you're very good ― and I went after the Starman and got to him before he reached Earth. In the process he nearly killed me.'


'I saw.'


'But I had superior firepower!' The Doctor tossed the orb into the air; it seemed to hover there for a moment, and then fell into the open palm of his hand with a slap. 'And I knocked him for six! Well,into the twenty-sixth dimension anyway. He's safe there for a while. Can't do much damage ― space and time's always been a right mess in there. Might even sort things out a bit. Who knows?' - The Beast of Babylon.]


The Transcendental Beings existed before the universe was formed.

[Because, for the first time since the remnants of the big bang had hung in the vortex like veils of preternatural fire, since the Transcendental Beings had found themselves in their new home, Elektra had found one simpatico to her needs and her wishes... - The Quantum Archangel]


These beings prefer being in the six fold realm but are not restricted to that or the 11 dimensions of the mainstream universe. As we see here, an Eternal is hanging around outside the 11 dimensional universe in the void (refered to here as the darker strata). Then we discover this:


[As would those Transcendental Beings that had stolen away into the hidden places, regions of the multiverse that were even more remote than the darker strata, beings that had seen the universe as a challenge to be conquered, a people to be raped, an artefact of so high a price that they would destroy everything to possess it. The Great Intelligence, the Nestene Consciousness, the Animus... Especially the darkest and greatest of the Old Ones, Nyarlathotep: after what he had done, Elektra had a special place in Hell reserved for him. - The Quantum Archangel]


Here we have a list of beings explicitly stated to exist beyond the 11 dimensional universe:


[Thoughts of the future and their unborn child were thrown aside as the Stygian gloom of the darker strata was suddenly illuminated by a brilliance that defied description. For the first time since the Big Bang had lit the vortex, the darker strata were dark no longer. They were filled by a light that was even darker. They had found them. Even in the darker strata, they had found them. Elektra and Prometheus may have been gods, but there were greater gods. Beings at the very pinnacle of existence, at the summit of the cosmic hierarchy. The Guardians. - The Quantum Archangel]


The Guardians arrive outside of the 11 dimensional universe and use their powers perfectly well.


The Time Lords have travelled to other universes before (and hence through the Void). Here's one example:


[The TARDIS engines groaned once, loudly, and then were silent.


'We are here,' said the Kin. Its Amy Pond mask was now just a flat scrawled drawing of a girl's face.


'We're here at the beginning of it all,' said the Doctor, 'because that's where you want to be. But I'm prepared to do this another way. I could find a solution for you. For all of you.'


'Open the door,' grunted the Kin. The Doctor opened the door. The winds that swirled about the TARDIS pushed the Doctor backwards.The Kin stood at the door of the TARDIS. 'It's so dark.'


'We're at the very start of it all. Before light.'


'I will walk into the Void,' said the Kin. 'And you will ask me, "What time is it?" And I will tell myself, tell you, tell all Creation, Time for the Kin to rule, to occupy, to invade. Time for the Universe to become only me and mine and whatever I keep to devour. Time for the first and final reign of the Kin, world without end, through all of time.


''I wouldn't do it,' said the Doctor, 'if I were you. You can still change your mind.' The Kin dropped the Amy Pond mask on to the TARDIS floor. It pushed itself out of the TARDIS door, into the Void. 'Doctor,' it called. Its face was a writhing mass of maggots. 'Ask me what time it is.''I can do better than that,' said the Doctor. 'I can tell you exactly what time it is. It's no time. It's Nothing O'Clock. It's a microsecond before the Big Bang. We're not at the Dawn of Time. We're before the Dawn.'The Time Lords really didn't like genocide. I'm not too keen on it myself. It's the potential you're killing off. What if, one day, there was a good Dalek? What if …' He paused. 'Space is big. Time is bigger. I would have helped you to find a place you could have lived. But there was a girl called Polly, and she left her diary behind. And you killed her. That was a mistake.'


'You never even knew her,' called the Kin from the Void.


'She was a kid,' said the Doctor. 'Pure potential, like every kid everywhere. I know all I need.' The squiggly whatsit attached to the TARDIS console was beginning to smoke and spark. 'You're out of time, literally. Because Time doesn't start until the Big Bang. And if any part of a creature that inhabits time gets removed from time … well, you're removing yourself from the whole picture.'


The Kin understood. It understood that, at that moment, all of Time and Space was one tiny particle, smaller than an atom, and that until a microsecond passed, and the particle exploded, nothing could happen. Nothing

could happen. And the Kin was on the wrong side of the microsecond. Cut off from Time, all the other parts of the Kin were ceasing to be. The It that was They felt the ash of non-existence sweeping over them. In the beginning ― before the beginning ― was the word. And the word was 'Doctor!' But the door had been closed and the TARDIS vanished, implacably. The Kin was left alone, in the Void before Creation. Alone, forever, in that moment, waiting for Time to begin. -Nothing O'Clock]


Dalek ships have feats for destroying things/beings that don't exist in space/time (from the audio The Enigma Dimension):


[The Doctor - No mass, no actual presence registering in space/time, it just appears to be out there.]


[The Doctor - These co-ordinates will take us beyond our universe, which is where I think this Enigma comes from.]


[Enigma - They found a way to survive here. They seemed only curious at first, then they devised a way to kill us.]


[Enigma - You are all slaves to the forces of your own dimension.


The Doctor - You mean, gravity, time, matter?


Enigma - Yes, if that is how you express them. These things are not constant here. They are infinitely malleable. They have no real meaning for us.


The Doctor - If time has no real meaning for you, then life...death...they don't matter to you at all do they?


Enigma - There is only what you call existence. It's beginning or ending is, for us, absurd.


The Doctor - And yet the Daleks are threatening you with extermination.]


[Dalek Time Strategist - Activate extra-dimensional destructor beam immediately.


Dalek - I obey!


The Doctor - Startlingly imaginative name....]


[Dalek Time Strategist - Begin the systematic extermination of all extra-dimensional creatures immediately.


Daleks - We obey!


  • SFX of dying Enigma's*]


Credits to Tik
 
about The Void : 'No light' , 'no dark' , 'no up' , 'no down' = mean 'absence of space'

so, Void seems legitimately to be a 'dimensionally transcendent abyss'.


sounds baseline 1-A to me.
 
I don't think that a transcendental superiority has been established.
 
GHG4589 said:
The higher dimensions in Doctor Who always treats as superior than the lower all the time:

-Many beings have to decreased their powers just to not accidentally destroys the universe, like the Great Intelligence and Fenric. The Grace is too large to enter the lower dimensions and space-time due to being infinitely larger than said dimensions and space-time.

-The higher-dimensions being always see the lower to be inferior than them, 6th-dimensional beings like Chronovores see the lower dimensions such as time and possibilities as nothing but food, the Six-Fold God see the Chronovores as nothing and of course, stomps them. The Grace, whom exists beyond multiversal dimensions sees the Six-Fold God who exist lower than them as nothing and used the Guardians of Time as their agents, one member of this race alone easily stomped both White Guardia and Black Guardia.

-Kronos has to create his avatar, "Paul Kairos", to manifested in the lower dimensions to not accidentally destroys it.

-Many living beings underwent psychological and physiological changes, and were usually driven insane when percieve the higher dimensions, due to its infinitely superior nature.

-The Doctor stated that the higher dimensions is being its own multiverses that exists beyond the multiverse.
Click to expand...
@Ant Did you read this?
 
I am saying that I see no direct connection to what has been mentioned about the time vortex.
 
Sorry for the removed text above, it was error

@Ant

The quotes was referred to the Spiral, which formed the axis of Time Vortex.

"Monica looked up to the ceiling. 'I'm coming for you, Doctor!' And in a flash of light she resumed her Lamprey form and vanished straight into the heart of the Spiral that formed the axis of the space-time vortex."
 
Okay, but I don't get the direct connection between the levels mentioned about the Spiral/Time Vortex and any increasing degrees of infinity.

You should preferably ask more administrators for input.
 
@Ant

I already asked three of them, and Ultima is the only one who answer.


Now I'll explains again about what you ask.

-The "increasing degrees of infinity", is in my post that NoMoreTalking mentioned above, the feats is long and I don't want to put it here, but the result is: The higher dimensions in Doctor Who are treats as infinitely superior than the lower dimensions.


Now about the "connection".

-The text above mentioned the Spiral, and the levels within it. And the levels within it are referred to the levels of spatial-temporal dimensions:

"'How! How can you touch me! I'm intangible. I am across all time and space. I am everywhere at once.'

'No,' the Doctor said, pained, exhausted and just a littleangrily.

'You are trapped here. By me. One solitary individual against your omnipotence. And I will beat you.'

'How?'

'Because I am... the... Doctor!' And he threw himself into the spiralled crucible, dropping downwards into the dimensionally transcendental abyss, accompanied by the screeching Monica/Lamprey, sending shards of blue light around them as they fell."


and again:

"the energy from the assembled Doctors battering the two figures, distorting them along every dimensional plane"


And the Spiral is the one that formed the axis of Time Vortex:

"Monica looked up to the ceiling. 'I'm coming for you, Doctor!' And in a flash of light she resumed her Lamprey form and vanished straight into the heart of the Spiral that formed the axis of the space-time vortex."
 
I am afraid that it is not at all explicit and logically straightforward enough for my taste. We need more staff input. You can tell them that I would appreciate the help.
 
The feats actually looks quite straightforward for me tho...

I mean, the author just mentioned the dimensions with the word "levels" once, and later directly mentioned them as "dimension plane", "dimensionally transcendental abyss", and "space-time".
 
I think Ultima's and Antvasima's point makes sense. THough, if more supporting statements like dimensionally transcendental abyss come up, I could change my mind on Tier.
 
@Elizhaa

You mean, like, the statements that confirmed that it is dimensions right?

To remind everyone, we do not discuss 1-A here, just High 1-B
 
I will continue later, because I have to go to bed, get up, go to college, study, and then I'll be back.

Thanks for all inputs and evaluations, good luck guys, see you all later.
 
GHG4589 said:
@Elizhaa
You mean, like, the statements that confirmed that it is dimensions right?

To remind everyone, we do not discuss 1-A here, just High 1-B
Click to expand...
More or less, yes. Is The Glory part of scaling because depending on the context it could be a good evidence for the High 1-B rating, also?
 
@Elizhaa

I do not know about the Glory, sorry.

And here's the statements you've asked for:

"For millennia, scholars have tried to fathom the true nature of what they have come to refer to as 'The Spiral'. They have failed because, of course, they cannot tell whether each time they examine the Spiral they are seeing it exponentially or randomly.

It is theorised that creatures live within the confines of the Spiral, creatures that have access to multiple dimensions"


And

"Rummas had crossed the room to join her. 'It's a sacrifice, across time and space. Across universes and multiverses. Across dimensions and ―' "
 
That does still not seem specific enough for our purposes. Sorry.
 
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