Doctor Who Discussion Thread

[ByAsura]

It's near perfect in Thin Time and The Union. His 9th Doctor impression in Her Own Bootstraps is very good, as well.

Dudman's 12th Doctor impression isn't as good, but it isn't bad either considering that he has to emulate a Scottish man who's more than twice his age.

 

[Hasty12345]

It's near perfect in Thin Time and The Union.

His 12th Doctor impression isn't as good, but it isn't bad either.

Might give it a listen when it comes out then

 

[Hellbeast]

How is Jacob Dudman's Matt Smith?

Actually really good

Victory of The Doctor is being released on the 6th.

Let's go Paradigm Partners

 

[ByAsura]

Just to clarify, this post isn't what I talked about here. I'll be covering that later.

Spoiler: Victory of The Doctor

Keep in mind, the story is told pseudo-linearly. I'll list this stuff in mostly linear order.

The Cult of Skaro created an intelligent time machine designed to appear as TARDISes during the Time War. It's capable of analysing timelines.

The Dalek Prime Minister, Eternal (who is apparently decades old), Supreme, Scientist, and such appear in this story.

The Doctor believed the Daleks would be weakened after Oswin erased their memories. Instead, the New Paradigm were incensed by their otherwise total victory over the Time Lords, and actually became stronger than ever—a sort of 'reborn' Paradigm, with the same leaders/command structure. It's also confirmed that the New Paradigm and New Dalek Empire are the same thing.

Despite apparently being stronger than their Time War levels, they were still concerned at the prospect of fighting the Time Lords. It's also implied their overall temporal power and ability to create pocket dimensions is still greatly diminished.

Pathweb communication is instant, and allows them to swarm ground enemies very quickly. The Doctor and Medrüth abominations try to compromise the Daleks' purity through the Pathweb, but it doesn't last for more than a few minutes before their hatred overcomes it. Imposing direct mental changes on the Daleks doesn't really work in general.

Their mind probes were 'strip mining' The Doctor's mind.

They have their own version of the Special Weapons Dalek (see here) that can kill energy-absorbent Medrüth abominations (created by an alien mutation known as The Surge) with 3 shots, whereas normal Daleks can't really even harm them with large volleys.

A Dalek fleet destroyed Medrüth in seconds.

Dalek forces swarmed 'every sector' in 'greater numbers than [humanity has] ever seen' during the opening of their war. It's implied that they stomped the Space Security Service and Shadow Proclamation in a very short time, killing millions and destroying hundreds of worlds as quickly as The Doctor could save one world. The universe was apparently dying after some time.

The Doctor described the invasion as being on the same scale as the Time War, and was so badly outnumbered and outgunned here that he believed they could destroy Daleks for millennia without actually stopping them. Though this is contradicted by later statements that the Daleks only number in the millions.

The Supreme believed a Dalek fleet could destroy the TARDIS, but this is never proven.

The Daleks would've won the war handily and completely in this timeline, with literally 0 chance of failing at conquering the universe according to The Cult of Skaro's time machine. However, the main characters cut a strand of the Web of Time, allowing them to create a new timeline where the Daleks lost and their main forces died.

In a potential timeline that The Cult of Skaro's time machine planned to create, The Surge would've become ubiquitous throughout the universe, leading to a Dalek defeat in approximately 3 billion years, albeit at the cost of trillions of lives (including The Doctor's) and entire galaxies.

 

[Tyranno223]

Just to clarify, this post isn't what I talked about here. I'll be covering that later.

Spoiler: Victory of The Doctor

Keep in mind, the story is told pseudo-linearly. I'll list this stuff in mostly linear order.

The Cult of Skaro created an intelligent time machine designed to appear as TARDISes during the Time War. It's capable of analysing timelines.

The Dalek Prime Minister, Eternal (who is apparently decades old), Supreme, Scientist, and such appear in this story.

The Doctor believed the Daleks would be weakened after Oswin erased their memories. Instead, the New Paradigm were incensed by their otherwise total victory over the Time Lords, and actually became stronger than ever—a sort of 'reborn' Paradigm, with the same leaders/command structure. It's also confirmed that the New Paradigm and New Dalek Empire are the same thing.

Despite apparently being stronger than their Time War levels, they were still concerned at the prospect of fighting the Time Lords. It's also implied their overall temporal power and ability to create pocket dimensions is still greatly diminished.

Pathweb communication is instant, and allows them to swarm ground enemies very quickly. The Doctor and Medrüth abominations try to compromise the Daleks' purity through the Pathweb, but it doesn't last for more than a few minutes before their hatred overcomes it. Imposing direct mental changes on the Daleks doesn't really work in general.

Their mind probes were 'strip mining' The Doctor's mind.

They have their own version of the Special Weapons Dalek (see here) that can kill energy-absorbent Medrüth abominations (created by an alien mutation known as The Surge) with 3 shots, whereas normal Daleks can't really even harm them with large volleys.

A Dalek fleet destroyed Medrüth in seconds.

Dalek forces swarmed 'every sector' in 'greater numbers than [humanity has] ever seen' during the opening of their war. It's implied that they stomped the Space Security Service and Shadow Proclamation in a very short time, killing millions and destroying hundreds of worlds as quickly as The Doctor could save one world. The universe was apparently dying after some time.

The Doctor described the invasion as being on the same scale as the Time War, and was so badly outnumbered and outgunned here that he believed they could destroy Daleks for millennia without actually stopping them. Though this is contradicted by later statements that the Daleks only number in the millions.

The Supreme believed a Dalek fleet could destroy the TARDIS, but this is never proven.

The Daleks would've won the war handily and completely in this timeline, with literally 0 chance of failing at conquering the universe according to The Cult of Skaro's time machine. However, the main characters cut a strand of the Web of Time, allowing them to create a new timeline where the Daleks lost and their main forces died.

In a potential timeline that The Cult of Skaro's time machine planned to create, The Surge would've become ubiquitous throughout the universe, leading to a Dalek defeat in approximately 3 billion years, albeit at the cost of trillions of lives (including The Doctor's) and entire galaxies.

Nice to see the Paradigm get some good respect. Their non-temporal tech can be put above Time-War equivalents then.

So do they retcon the Parliament being destroyed at Trenzalore in the Dalek guide then? I assume this is before since they have no recollection of the Doctor yet.

 

[ByAsura]

I don't think it's a retcon. They imply that the Daleks could've survived and rebuilt.

 

[Hellbeast]

PARADIGM ON TOP BABY WHOOO

also the Paradigm SWD is stated to destroy targets on an atomic level in a diagram to promote the audio somewhere.

Also I’m working on a rework of the Doctor’s profile and wanted to ask, what’s the viability of making separate pages for each Doctor?

 

[Hasty12345]

Do we really need 16 pages for 1 character?

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

PARADIGM ON TOP BABY WHOOO

also the Paradigm SWD is stated to destroy targets on an atomic level in a diagram to promote the audio somewhere.

Cool

Also I’m working on a rework of the Doctor’s profile and wanted to ask, what’s the viability of making separate pages for each Doctor?

I guess we can create a profile Pre-Last Grand Time War (1 to 8) and Post-Last Time War (War to 15)

(Yes, I know that The Last Grand Time War technically begins during the Time Lords' attempt to erase the creation of Daleks using the Fourth Doctor as an agent)

We already have a profile for characters with similar characteristics that are determined by war arcs.

This would also help the management of preptime

and in case someone wants to create a profile for The warrior, can go with fused it with the first pre-war profile

 

[Hellbeast]

Cool

I guess we can create a profile Pre-Last Grand Time War (1 to 8) and Post-Last Time War (War to 15)

Honestly I think each incarnation is distinct enough in personality, arsenal and skills to be it's own profile (I've been working on a Fourth Doctor profile off site and he's fairly big already)

and in case someone wants to create a profile for The warrior, can go with fused it with the first pre-war profile

Honestly I think we could have an entire section for Unbound Doctors between this, the Shalka stuff, Curse of Fatal Death, etc

 

[ByAsura]

I'm planning to list all the general Time Lord, TARDIS and Dalek abilities in separate physiology pages, like this.

That way we won't have to sift through several tabbers worth of messy coding just to add or remove 1 ability.

 

[Hellbeast]

I'm planning to list all the general Time Lord, TARDIS and Dalek abilities in separate physiology pages, like this.

That way we won't have to sift through several tabbers worth of messy coding just to add or remove 1 ability.

If you want I can send some stuff over that I've found? Tons of Extrasensory Perception, Resistances and Body Control

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

I'm planning to list all the general Time Lord, TARDIS and Dalek abilities in separate physiology pages, like this.

That way we won't have to sift through several tabbers worth of messy coding just to add or remove 1 ability.

While I agree with the physiology page repairs several aspects, I think the Daleks are weird, it is known that there are some things that the Mark 9 obviously has that the Mark 5 doesn't, so I'm unsure about a physiology

Honestly I think each incarnation is distinct enough in personality, arsenal and skills to be it's own profile (I've been working on a Fourth Doctor profile off site and he's fairly big already)

I'm not sure that each Incarnation has its own profile, I'm not full opposed but I think there are better option, cuz if we do we would have more profiles than Superman have rn

 

[Hellbeast]

While I agree with the physiology page repairs several aspects, I think the Daleks are weird, it is known that there are some things that the Mark 9 obviously has that the Mark 5 doesn't, so I'm unsure about a physiology

I could see Physiology covering the inherent Dalek traits (Type 1 and 2 Immortality, Psychokinesis etc) while the page also mentions the specific additions each variant has (Force Fields, Radiation Manipulation, Adaptation)

I'm not sure that each Incarnation has its own profile, I'm not full opposed but I think there are better option, cuz if we do we would have more profiles than Superman have rn

BASED TBH but honestly I know it's weird but think it's required once you start getting deep into each Doctor's EU materials. Like Tom is the longest running Doctor on screen and yet his Big Finish stuff outweighs his body of work onscreen

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

BASED TBH but honestly I know it's weird but think it's required once you start getting deep into each Doctor's EU materials

How about we put it to the vote?

 

[ByAsura]

While I agree with the physiology page repairs several aspects, I think the Daleks are weird, it is known that there are some things that the Mark 9 obviously has that the Mark 5 doesn't, so I'm unsure about a physiology

They'll be era specific.

It actually works out quite well with the Daleks' weaknesses. For example, they gained forcefields and overcame their reliance on static electricity during The Chase/Second Dalek War era.

If you want I can send some stuff over that I've found? Tons of Extrasensory Perception, Resistances and Body Control

Thanks. I'll be sure to take you up on that at a later time.

 

[Hasty12345]

are there any statements that would indicate different incarnations having different intellects or capabilities, or is this based on different writers portrayal?

 

[ByAsura]

In The Union, the Eighth Doctor says Capaldi is way smarter/more experienced than himself due to being twice as old.

But that's probably more a virtue of Time Lords having eidetic memory than faster neurons, or anything.

 

[Hellbeast]

How about we put it to the vote?

That's fair but the laws of the wiki are mine and they will obey my tyrannical whims

They'll be era specific.

It actually works out quite well with the Daleks' weaknesses. For example, they gained forcefields and overcame their reliance on static electricity during The Chase/Second Dalek War era.

Thanks. I'll be sure to take you up on that at a later time.

1) We also know stuff like them absorbing background radiation and Time-Sensitive Biodata came as a Time War development too so we have precedent 2) No worries man, just shoot me a message and I'll send what I've got

are there any statements that would indicate different incarnations having different intellects or capabilities, or is this based on different writers portrayal?

In The Union, the Eighth Doctor says Capaldi is way smarter/more experienced than himself due to being twice as old.

There's also stuff like the Eighth Doctor mentioning he is rustier at Venusian Aikido then his previous selves, the War Doctor is also intended as more combative then his other selves and we also have stuff like the Tenth Doctor surviving the kind of fall that mortally wounded the Fourth Doctor. There's also stuff like each Doctor's extended arsenals (7 and 8 are great examples of this) varying pretty wildly in scale and potency

 

[Hasty12345]

In The Union, the Eighth Doctor says Capaldi is way smarter/more experienced than himself due to being twice as old.

But that's probably more a virtue of Time Lords having eidetic memory than faster neurons, or anything.

If he says it’s due to age, than I don’t think there’s really a reason to separate the doctor into 16 pages, that sounds like a mess to deal with.

 

[Hasty12345]

There's also stuff like the Eighth Doctor mentioning he is rustier at Venusian Aikido then his previous selves, the War Doctor is also intended as more combative then his other selves and we also have stuff like the Tenth Doctor surviving the kind of fall that mortally wounded the Fourth Doctor. There's also stuff like each Doctor's extended arsenals (7 and 8 are great examples of this) varying pretty wildly in scale and potency

could make respect threads for each doctors kit and have them in tabbers under equipment

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

In The Union, the Eighth Doctor says Capaldi is way smarter/more experienced than himself due to being twice as old.

But that's probably more a virtue of Time Lords having eidetic memory than faster neurons, or anything.

the 14th Doctor say that his braincells changed tho iirc

 

[Hellbeast]

the 14th Doctor say that his braincells changed tho iirc

Also, I think there's a DWM comic where it's mentioned 14 resists the Sycorax's powers because his bloodtype changed in the Regeneration

 

[ByAsura]

I think tabbers and sub-tabbers should enough, rather than new profiles outright. But I can see an argument for different pages.

Ofc, though, any alt universe Doctor would get a separate page.

 

[Hasty12345]

the 14th Doctor say that his braincells changed tho iirc

13 and fugitive acknowledged they had the same brain and then had the same thought processes iirc

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

There are Forty-Fith Doctors tho

Forty-Fifth Doctor

According to one account, the Forty-Fifth Doctor died in River Song's arms on a battlefield, telling her that she had yet to have many more adventures with his earlier selves. However, what he had failed to tell River was that, knowing she was destined to be uploaded to the Library, but not...

tardis.fandom.com

 

[Hasty12345]

There are Forty-Fith Doctors tho

Forty-Fifth Doctor

According to one account, the Forty-Fifth Doctor died in River Song's arms on a battlefield, telling her that she had yet to have many more adventures with his earlier selves. However, what he had failed to tell River was that, knowing she was destined to be uploaded to the Library, but not...

tardis.fandom.com

That looks like fan fiction

 

[Hellbeast]

oo damn the Doctor Moon theory

I think tabbers and sub-tabbers should enough, rather than new profiles outright. But I can see an argument for different pages.

Ofc, though, any alt universe Doctor would get a separate page.

Hmm, how would that work?

 

[ByAsura]

There are 507.

Hmm, how would that work?

Something like this, for example.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

That looks like fan fiction

To be honest, I take it as a discarded idea.

although there is potential for a lot of Doctors since the day of the Doctor

 

[Hellbeast]

Something like this, for example.

I could see that, not sure if it'd be too complex but at the very least it's a cool idea. As for images would we have sub tabber for each Doctor's look (like Ten as the Time Lord Victorious or something)

 

[ByAsura]

We could, if everyone's ok with it.

 

[Hellbeast]

That's pretty dope, also would we do this for the likes of the Master and Monk?

 

[Hasty12345]

I could see that, not sure if it'd be too complex but at the very least it's a cool idea. As for images would we have sub tabber for each Doctor's look (like Ten as the Time Lord Victorious or something)

What feats did we get from TLV?

 

[ByAsura]

What feats did we get from TLV?

The Dalek fleet could smash planets.

That's pretty dope, also would we do this for the likes of the Master and Monk?

The Master, maybe. I'd say no for The Monk due to lack of variety.

 

[Hellbeast]

What feats did we get from TLV?

A big one is the Doctor gaining access to Death Manipulation, Biological Manipulation and Age Manipulation that can terrify higher dimensional entities like the Eternities and nullifying a race's resistances to it (Sutekh likely gets this too).

The Dalek fleet could smash planets.

Huh I missed that one, that's fun

The Master, maybe. I'd say no for The Monk due to lack of variety.

Yeah that's about right

 

[Hasty12345]

The Dalek fleet could smash planets.

I’m somehow disappointed that’s all we got from such a large event.

 

[ByAsura]

It's because the main bulk of the story is set in an era where most of the upper tier civilizations in Doctor Who haven't even developed to caveman levels yet, let alone reached the level of the Sontarans and Daleks.

Btw, the planetary feats are in Daleks!, The Knight, The Fool and The Undead, and All Flesh is Grass.

 

[Hasty12345]

It's because the main bulk of the story is set in an era where most of the upper tier civilizations in Doctor Who haven't even developed to caveman levels yet, let alone reached the level of the Sontarans and Daleks.

Btw, the planetary feats are in Daleks!, The Knight, The Fool and The Undead, and All Flesh is Grass.

Makes sense. I got a 2 parter, Do we consider intelligence feats from TLV Doctor to scale to the regular Doctor and does 11 remember TLV or is there memory shenanigans?

 

[Hellbeast]

I’m somehow disappointed that’s all we got from such a large event.

TBH its cool for support since these guys are way earlier then the Time War and Paradigm Daleks (both of whom would likely upscale thanks to their accolades)

Makes sense. I got a 2 parter, Do we consider intelligence feats from TLV Doctor to scale to the regular Doctor and does 11 remember TLV or is there memory shenanigans?

To my understanding TLV is just straight up 10 between Waters of Mars and future stories wildly enough