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Doctor Who Discussion Thread

We're discussing aspects of it.

Plus, I've made some improvements to my original plans.
 
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I have it, but I can't post any quotes right now.

It's confirmed that the Toymaker wasn't lying about the Guardians, at least.

Also, almost the entire story is told from the Toymaker's perspective, but still includes the other characters' actions, thoughts and past anecdotes (like The Doctor playing twister with Einstein), strongly implying the Toymaker is basically omniscient.
 
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I found a way to copy-paste them.

The CT's original Toyroom was a void that he filled with substance.
  • A long time ago in a universe outside time lived a little boy, and that boy never grew up. He didn’t need to. He surrounded himself with toys. Oh, he loved his toys. To start with, he had nothing. It was just a void. But voids are no fun. Like blank pages they must be filled, and sometimes that’s an awful challenge (I am a writer now! See? I get to write things like this). Sometimes voids are very dark. But don’t worry – that darkness never got cold. Never got so cold and dark that the boy cried because he was so cold and alone and afraid. No. The void was lovely. Especially when … people came to the void! At first they wandered in, finding it of their own free will, but then he began to lure them. Because they were so much fun to play with. Like on the last day of term, they brought games with them – a set of cards in a pilot’s pocket, a ball, a dice – so many games of chance. They played together and none of the visitors won. Ever. No, no, no – the boy never cheated. Never, never, never. But they lost, and so they became toys. Toys to play games with. Toys to play games with other visitors. One day, the Doctor visited and stayed long enough to play one of the boy’s games – he played for the lives of his companions. There was a handsome space pilot called Steven and a sniffing orphan called Dodo (like me, she could also do All The Accents). – the Trilogic Puzzle has 1,023 moves, and no one, not even me, has ever understood all the rules (even though I read them, twice!). But the Doctor played – and the Doctor won. Well, I say ‘won’. I would never accuse another player of cheating. But he knows what he did. After all those years, that lovely void full of toys was all gone. Destroyed. And the little boy had to start all over again. Because that boy was lonely, and he had lost all of his toys. But maybe, just maybe, the little boy would find somewhere else to play. Somewhere that would take him a very, very long time to get to. But he was patient. He knew the invite would come. Because that boy adored long games. Long complicated games. Including games of … REVENGE.
My man wasn't lying about turning the Guardians to voodoo dolls
  • ‘These moments are a joy,’ I beamed. ‘When someone thinks they can outwit the maker of the games. Do you think a grand total of … TWO can cause me to shiver? When I played against the Guardians of Time and Space and shrank them into voodoo dolls?’ I let that one sink in. I’d kept the Guardians in a crate for millennia, but of course that had meant nothing to them. So now a seamstress in Kalamazoo had two pin cushions, festooned with her second best pins. One pin cushion was black, one was white and each tapered into a birdlike crest with a howling face. Yes, I had done that to the Guardians of creation. Was I really going to blink at an impertinent half-dressed anomaly?
He created an infinite amount of corridors
  • They now had a choice of infinite corridors, each one lined with infinite doors.
He can compress 4-D objects to 1-D.
  • On the tenth fold, the Toyshop went – dolls and trains and trucks and skittles and dice all squeezed down from four dimensions to one, my puppets only having time for one final wave before they were gone.
 
How does Doctor Who canon work, do we treat the novelization as parallel timelines, retellings, or something else?
 
Secondary canon.

If an element of the novels contradict the show it's based off, the show takes precedence.
 
ByAsura said:
I found a way to copy-paste them.

The CT's original Toyroom was a void that he filled with substance.
  • A long time ago in a universe outside time lived a little boy, and that boy never grew up. He didn’t need to. He surrounded himself with toys. Oh, he loved his toys. To start with, he had nothing. It was just a void. But voids are no fun. Like blank pages they must be filled, and sometimes that’s an awful challenge (I am a writer now! See? I get to write things like this). Sometimes voids are very dark. But don’t worry – that darkness never got cold. Never got so cold and dark that the boy cried because he was so cold and alone and afraid. No. The void was lovely. Especially when … people came to the void! At first they wandered in, finding it of their own free will, but then he began to lure them. Because they were so much fun to play with. Like on the last day of term, they brought games with them – a set of cards in a pilot’s pocket, a ball, a dice – so many games of chance. They played together and none of the visitors won. Ever. No, no, no – the boy never cheated. Never, never, never. But they lost, and so they became toys. Toys to play games with. Toys to play games with other visitors. One day, the Doctor visited and stayed long enough to play one of the boy’s games – he played for the lives of his companions. There was a handsome space pilot called Steven and a sniffing orphan called Dodo (like me, she could also do All The Accents). – the Trilogic Puzzle has 1,023 moves, and no one, not even me, has ever understood all the rules (even though I read them, twice!). But the Doctor played – and the Doctor won. Well, I say ‘won’. I would never accuse another player of cheating. But he knows what he did. After all those years, that lovely void full of toys was all gone. Destroyed. And the little boy had to start all over again. Because that boy was lonely, and he had lost all of his toys. But maybe, just maybe, the little boy would find somewhere else to play. Somewhere that would take him a very, very long time to get to. But he was patient. He knew the invite would come. Because that boy adored long games. Long complicated games. Including games of … REVENGE.
  • .
Click to expand...
So Toymaker's universe is a Void (thus he warping it mean he has Void manipulation?)
 
ByAsura said:
I found a way to copy-paste them.

The CT's original Toyroom was a void that he filled with substance.
  • A long time ago in a universe outside time lived a little boy, and that boy never grew up. He didn’t need to. He surrounded himself with toys. Oh, he loved his toys. To start with, he had nothing. It was just a void. But voids are no fun. Like blank pages they must be filled, and sometimes that’s an awful challenge (I am a writer now! See? I get to write things like this). Sometimes voids are very dark. But don’t worry – that darkness never got cold. Never got so cold and dark that the boy cried because he was so cold and alone and afraid. No. The void was lovely. Especially when … people came to the void! At first they wandered in, finding it of their own free will, but then he began to lure them. Because they were so much fun to play with. Like on the last day of term, they brought games with them – a set of cards in a pilot’s pocket, a ball, a dice – so many games of chance. They played together and none of the visitors won. Ever. No, no, no – the boy never cheated. Never, never, never. But they lost, and so they became toys. Toys to play games with. Toys to play games with other visitors. One day, the Doctor visited and stayed long enough to play one of the boy’s games – he played for the lives of his companions. There was a handsome space pilot called Steven and a sniffing orphan called Dodo (like me, she could also do All The Accents). – the Trilogic Puzzle has 1,023 moves, and no one, not even me, has ever understood all the rules (even though I read them, twice!). But the Doctor played – and the Doctor won. Well, I say ‘won’. I would never accuse another player of cheating. But he knows what he did. After all those years, that lovely void full of toys was all gone. Destroyed. And the little boy had to start all over again. Because that boy was lonely, and he had lost all of his toys. But maybe, just maybe, the little boy would find somewhere else to play. Somewhere that would take him a very, very long time to get to. But he was patient. He knew the invite would come. Because that boy adored long games. Long complicated games. Including games of … REVENGE.
My man wasn't lying about turning the Guardians to voodoo dolls
  • ‘These moments are a joy,’ I beamed. ‘When someone thinks they can outwit the maker of the games. Do you think a grand total of … TWO can cause me to shiver? When I played against the Guardians of Time and Space and shrank them into voodoo dolls?’ I let that one sink in. I’d kept the Guardians in a crate for millennia, but of course that had meant nothing to them. So now a seamstress in Kalamazoo had two pin cushions, festooned with her second best pins. One pin cushion was black, one was white and each tapered into a birdlike crest with a howling face. Yes, I had done that to the Guardians of creation. Was I really going to blink at an impertinent half-dressed anomaly?
He created an infinite amount of corridors
  • They now had a choice of infinite corridors, each one lined with infinite doors.
He can compress 4-D objects to 1-D.
  • On the tenth fold, the Toyshop went – dolls and trains and trucks and skittles and dice all squeezed down from four dimensions to one, my puppets only having time for one final wave before they were gone.
Click to expand...
I'm glad the Toymaker was upgraded, though I wonder if the Toymaker remains a Guardian himself?

And I wonder then, if he's a Guardian from the Dark Times. It would fit his nature. Dreams and Illusions have more in common with the Dark Times than they ever did with the Time Lord's clockwork Universe.
 
Udlmaster said:
I'm glad the Toymaker was upgraded, though I wonder if the Toymaker remains a Guardian himself?

And I wonder then, if he's a Guardian from the Dark Times. It would fit his nature. Dreams and Illusions have more in common with the Dark Times than they ever did with the Time Lord's clockwork Universe.
Click to expand...
I mean, this part make me thinking that he is from the Dark Times, so yeah, before Time Lord's remake the universe


ByAsura said:
A long time ago in a universe outside time lived a little boy, and that boy never grew up. He didn’t need to.
Click to expand...
 
Udlmaster said:
I'm glad the Toymaker was upgraded, though I wonder if the Toymaker remains a Guardian himself?

And I wonder then, if he's a Guardian from the Dark Times. It would fit his nature. Dreams and Illusions have more in common with the Dark Times than they ever did with the Time Lord's clockwork Universe.
Click to expand...
the doctor did mention him as an abstract being representing play in the episode so he could still be a guardian
 
I appreciate The Giggle explicitly retconning the notion that order and chaos are everything.

There's also few other explanations for the other Guardians.

In Bloodlines, the Guardians / Accord are stated to be equal, but different.

And the Red Guardian of Justice's whole gimmick in Lungbarrow is that he exists between the White and Black Guardian, like a scale that balances order and chaos.
 
ByAsura said:
I appreciate The Giggle explicitly retconning the notion that order and chaos are everything.

There's also few other explanations for the other Guardians.

In Bloodlines, the Guardians / Accord are stated to be equal, but different.

And the Red Guardian of Justice's whole gimmick in Lungbarrow is that he exists between the White and Black Guardian, like a scale that balances order and chaos.
Click to expand...
I wonder if The Celestial Toymaker is actually more powerful than the Guardians or if the rules of the game allowed him to do those things.
 
I wish I knew of this threads existence earlier.
 
You can help out with Part 2 & 3, if you'd like. But that might be weeks away.

I can add you to our private discussions.
 
Sure. I'm not really big on all the higher dimensional stuff though. I recently got a lot DW stuff for Christmas so I can also chip in as I make my way through it.
 
These comments might be of some interest to the cosmology thread:

vsbattles.com

The commoners thread: Discussing Ultima's "On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System"

How can they be Outerversal? Don't they use guns? Yes, there are some who use weapons, but the main base in t7 uses grimoire (magic). Trinity Seven also has R-F Transcendent.
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
vsbattles.com

On the Many, Many Incoherences of the Tiering System

How exactly to interpret topological properties in terms of physical phenomena is not an easy question. What can be objectively said is that in a non-Hausdorff space limits are not unique, which means that things like unique derivatives likewise don't exist. That means that derivative-related...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

Under the new system, the cosmology might qualify for low 1-A or maybe 1-A if the platonic concepts stuff are accurate enough
 
Hasty12345 said:
How, I'm not sure how the verse escapes the quantitative superiority tiers?
Click to expand...
It has tons of them, just our focus for the most part was on the Mathematics part.

The Qualitative differences are things like the Pre-Universe, the Vortex (Science and Math break down there), the Six-Fold Realm and the whole ass entity who's Apophatic.
 
Udlmaster said:
It has tons of them, just our focus for the most part was on the Mathematics part.

The Qualitative differences are things like the Pre-Universe, the Vortex (Science and Math break down there), the Six-Fold Realm and the whole ass entity who's Apophatic.
Click to expand...
I see, it's hard to keep track of all this stuff.

At the very least, I'm not seeing lower than low 1-A in the new system.
 
That thread doesn't concern me too much, at this moment. It seems to be more based on reality-fiction stuff.

Anyway, I'm currently asking one of the most knowledgeable staff members on the site about his opinion on the cosmology.

Also, after some thought, I'm planning to create a generalised blog form of the cosmology that's more accessible.
 
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