• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

DMC2 Bolverk slight upgrade

Kepekley23

Kepekley23

VS Battles
Retired
15,332
7,559
Bolverk is currently considered as "Possibly 3-A" for having survived a fight with Sparda and survived his first battle with Dante, but, with a new casual read of the DMC2 guide, I believe I have found evidence to support him being a definite 3-A.

This could potentially mean that Dante received a power boost throughout DMC2. This would be supported by the fact that the last mission is the one that states Dante "shall surpass" Sparda.

The problem is that this new info creates some considerable powerscaling inconsistencies between the God Tiers that need to be addressed, since Pre-DMC2 Dante beat Void Mundus with hardly any effort.
 
I don't think it would be too much of a problem with scaling.In the novel Dante faces Chen who, after merging with the Beastheads, was stated to be stronger than Dante (not including DT) and Dante essentially one-shotted Chen just by getting serious.It's a similiar case with Bolverk I would assume.

Void Mundus < Chen was stated to be stronger than base Dante and Dante had to get serious in order to defeat him

Void Mundus < Chen =< Bolverk stated to be Sparda's nemesis and required Dante's strongest attacks to defeat him

I definitely agree with Bolverk being 3A
 
I personally think it is more consistent to assume that, maybe, the form of Argosax that Sparda sealed was actually The Chaos, and that's how the Protectorate helped Sparda beat Argosax. We know via DMC2 lore that Bolverk and other Demons once infested Dumary Island and were all beat by Sparda. Perhaps the Protectorate cast spells to seal his true form on that hideous coccoon, made from body parts of the demons that Sparda defeated, and make him beatable.

Not only that, The Chaos' description is the one that mentions Sparda sealing him. The Despair Embodied's description doesn't.

DMC2 Dante is, albeit very slightly, implied to have gotten stronger throughout DMC2. Bolverk is at first a difficult foe for his Base Form, and he doesn't manage to kill him just yet, even if he ends up prevailing in their duel. Then, by their second fight, the guide implies Dante slaps his ass without much effort and finally kills him off for good. The fact that the final mission's Guidepost states that Dante "shall surpass all who came before him" definitely implies that Dante is getting stronger up to the ending battle, with Argosax.

Something like this:

DMC2 Dante (Endgame) > Sparda (Prime) > Argosax (Despair Embodied) = Mundus > Argosax (Chaos) > DMC2 Dante (Midgame) = Sparda (Sealed) >= Bolverk

This would also explain why Sparda is still said to be comparable to Dante in DMC5. Dante has just surpassed Sparda by DMC2's ending and there is no particular reason to assume that Dante obtained a considerable power increase in DMC4 or DMC5, up until he beats Urizen of course.
 
Makes sense and ties the scaling up nicely.Dante getting stronger could be explained by his Accelerated Development as well.
 
Also, unrelated, but Bolverk in DMC lore is supposed to represent Odin from the Norse myths.
 
Kepekley23 said:
DMC2 Dante (Endgame) > Sparda (Prime) > Argosax (Despair Embodied) = Mundus > Argosax (Chaos) > DMC2 Dante (Midgame) = Sparda (Sealed) >= Bolverk
Click to expand...
That scaling chaing makes no sense tbh, like you said Pre-DMC2 Dante almost stomped Void Mundus who is stronger than The Despair Embodied who is stronger than his sealed/coccon form (chaos) and Bolverk is just another minion under Argosax who could not defeat a seald Sparda.
 
DMC2 Dante beating Void Mundus so easily is almost certainly an outlier taking into account DMC2 itself. It throws off the scaling. Even by the end of the game he has only possibly surpassed Sparda, and he was specifically noted to have been in trouble with Bolverk, needing to use his strongest attacks to beat him.

Bolverk was stated to be Sparda's "old nemesis". That implies sealed Sparda needed a lot of effort to beat him, which fits right in line with him being unable to beat Chaos Argosax by himself and needing the help of the Protectorate. And it is stated that Dante needs to use Devil Trigger, albeit just momentarily, to beat Bolverk. Who by the way was explicitly noted to be Argosax's most powerful warrior, not "just another minion". And, as I detailed, Dante is implied to get stronger throughout DMC2, since he is only cogitated to have surpassed Prime Sparda by the end of the game and he is stated to whoop Bolverk's ass in their second fight.

Having Pre-DMC2 Dante beat up a guy stronger than Mundus so easily right off the bat when he needed actual effort to beat a guy who rivaled Sealed Sparda kinda clashes with what is shown in the lore of the actual games.
 
Kepekley23 said:
DMC2 Dante beating Void Mundus so easily is almost certainly an outlier taking into account DMC2 itself. Even by the end of the game he has only possibly surpassed Sparda, and he was specifically noted to have been in trouble with Bolverk, needing to use his strongest attacks to beat him.
Click to expand...
I believe Dante,Bolverk and Sparda are just stronger than Mundus and Argosax.

I don't think Dante stomping Void Mundus is an outlier since Dante goes on to face Bolverk and Argosax within the same time frame after facing Void Mundus and Chen who are above Argosax in power.

Full powered Sparda is already stronger way stronger than Mundus and Argosax so I don't need to explain him really.

Bolverk is a mysterious demon that we know is strong via guidebook,statements and gameplay and lore:"He was once the king of a remote region's gods, but it's said that Bolverk was reborn as an evil god after being destroyed in a great war." - Even before Bolverk's death he was considered a king above other gods (gods = demons here) and all we know is that he died in a "great war" and that great war is almost certainly Sparda's rebellion seeing as that's the only event considered "war" within the series.It wouldn't be out of place to say (alive) Bolverk is already comparable to a prime Sparda and it easily fits with the scaling (fixes the BoG DMC2 Dante > Mundus and Argosax).Bolverk being comparable to Sparda means that he could be the reason for Dante's power increase and the reason why Dante during 2 "shall surpass all that came before him" (I know it says this before Argosax's bossfight but in the same bossfight Dante stomps both forms of Argosax so he really isn't surpassing anything)

To put it simply, Bolverk and beginning of DMC2 Dante are stronger than Mundus and Argosax and Bolverk could be the reason Dante seemingly gets a power boost to surpass Sparda.
 
I mean, I started writing since Kepe left his last reply and left for some hours to eat and say hello to my family and when I came back finished the reply and just went poof.

Anyways, the point of the reply was to say that Bolverk should not be "the most powerful warrior" under argosax since the guy who Dante killed in Before the nightmare (balrog) is refered as the second in comand or the right hand of argosax and he was defeated rather easily by a Pre DMC5 Dante who should be comparable to his DMC4 self who was stated to be stronger than sparda in game files and is comparable/stronger than his DMC2 self.

And Bolverk being on par with Dante should be an outlier for him as he was defeated by a selad sparda who could only take care of the coccon form of argosax.
 
I simply believe that the entire scaling problem here is easily fixed by having (Alive) Bolverk be comparable to (prime)Sparda and (resurrected)Bolverk being stronger than (Alive) Bolverk as the lore implies meaning Dante having trouble and eventually beating (resurrected) Bolverk is a way to show Dante surpassing Sparda rather than Dante stomping Argosax's forms be proof of surpassing Sparda.
 
> I believe Dante,Bolverk and Sparda are just stronger than Mundus and Argosax.

No. Argosax was explicitly noted to have subdued every demon within the Demon World at the time of his rule, and Bolverk was explicitly stated to be a servant of him. He is obviously not stronger than Argosax.

> Bolverk is a mysterious demon that we know is strong via guidebook,statements and gameplay and lore:"He was once the king of a remote region's gods, but it's said that Bolverk was reborn as an evil god after being destroyed in a great war."

No. This is just referring to the fact that Bolverk used to be worshipped as Odin by Norse people in ancient times.

> .It wouldn't be out of place to say (alive) Bolverk is already comparable to a prime Sparda and it easily fits with the scaling

Bolverk is explicitly weaker than Argosax. Not only did he serve him, Argosax was explicitly stated to be the strongest Demon in the Underworld at the time of his defeat, since he subdued "all demons" to assume the throne.

> To put it simply, Bolverk and beginning of DMC2 Dante are stronger than Mundus and Argosax and Bolverk could be the reason Dante seemingly gets a power boost to surpass Sparda.

As I said, Bolverk is weaker than Argosax
 
> Anyways, the point of the reply was to say that Bolverk should not be "the most powerful warrior" under argosax since the guy who Dante killed in Before the nightmare (balrog) is refered as the second in comand or the right hand of argosax and he was defeated rather easily by a Pre DMC5 Dante

Uh...Bolverk died at Dante's hands, so there is absolutely no reason to compare him to Balrog. This would be like saying Berial is stronger than Mundus because he took up the throne after Mundus was defeated by someone else.
 
I'd much rather discard Dante defeating Void Mundus as an outlier/a case of secondary canon contradicting the primary canon.
 
...There is no reason to assume that. Bolverk is outright stated to be the most powerful warrior under Argosax's command, while Balrog was merely stated to be his right hand man. No statements on his power.


And Balrog lived while Bolverk ended up being killed by Dante before Argosax's defeat, making comparing them based on a vague statement about Balrog even harder.
 
I mean, if one guy is in charge of other is easy to assume he is stronger or more skilled or something like that, especially when we are talking about demons who want power to rule over others.

But yes, scaling them without a direct statement or a hint is not that good.
 
Berial was prince to Mundus and temporarily ruled the Underworld after his sealing despite not being the strongest Demon in it. This compares to Balrog.

Even if Balrog did scale to Bolverk, that would be irrelevant. Dante had trouble fighting Bolverk in the first fight, but in their second one he whooped his ass. The whole point I'm making is that he is clearly getting a stronger throughout DMC2. Him beating a Mundus+ level in Base before DMC2 so easily throws the whole powerscaling out of the window.

Volume 2 is secondary canon and is subject to any game-based material's information.
 
Where was it stated that Bolverk serves Argosax or was considered Argosax's most powerful warrior?(Besides the "subdued all demons") Because I felt like I remember seeing the quote but now I can't find it anywhere.
 
I agree with Bolverk being just 3-A, him being tough might refer to gameplay but he's not hard to deal in that regard in both fights.
 
It's strange how the in game "Guideposts for Hunters" leaves out information that the guidebook's GFH's has.The guidebook even has GPH's that even the game doesn't have.

"most-skilled warrior" doesn't neccessarily translate to AP or tiering (although I agree with 3A Bolverk).DMC anime,DMC4, and DMC2 novel Dante have statements or showings of being superior to Sparda in skill but that doesn't necessarily mean Anime Dante or DMC2 novel Dante (according to your scaling) surpasses Sparda in AP or Tiering and it is possible that Balrog could be stronger than Bolverk
 
> "most-skilled warrior" doesn't neccessarily translate to AP or tiering

The point is that Bolverk < Argosax
 
By the way, here is a lore entry for Dumary Island in the DMC2 instruction manual (which I sadly don't own, just the Brady Guide):

  • "In ancient times, a religion arising somewhere east of the Mediterranean Ocean split into many different factions. Its disciples quickly carried it to western Asia, Europe, and North Africa. As time passed, some gods from the various sects were forgotten, others were assimilated into other religions, and still others were shunned as evil. For one reason or another, the gods all but disappeared. What few people continued worshipping them were branded as heretics. The dissenters were forced to turn their backs on their own homelands in order to continue in their beliefs. Venturing farther and farther away, the outcasts eventually found themselves adrift in an unknown land floating on the outskirts of the New World. This was Dumary Island. Hordes of refugees of different races, beliefs and languages crossed over to the island. The first to arrive followed the sea routes of the old Viking explorers, around the North Pole and through the Pacific Ocean. Following them came runaway slaves seeking sanctuary. The newcomers all had a single common point ― belief in a pagan religion. Tribes that had historically skirmished over old differences running deep in their cultures now lived together peaceably on the same island. As the generations passed, the former strangers blended together into a single people. Their mix of different languages, ethnic customs and various gods gave birth to new, totally unique religions. The gods worshipped by the new blend of people were an ancient family of beings inhabiting a different dimension. They wielded strange powers and existed outside the concepts of right and wrong. Deities that were considered evil or pagan in the old world were, on Dumary Island, simply thought of as "other gods" ― there were far too many of them to count. Rites performed in honor of these idols often resembled exorcisms and demon sealing ceremonies. The priests of these cults were known as "guardians" and were sometimes called upon to protect the gods and their worshippers. Many were the legends of guardians who had borrowed the power of their own gods to defeat enemy gods. One recent tale, only a few hundred years old, told of a great swordsman appearing from "the outside" to aid in exorcising the most evil god of all time. Over the centuries, Dumary Island's success in supporting the worship of unique religions while maintaining its existence out of the mainstream has been nothing short of miraculous. Lately, however, agents of international corporations have quietly begun infiltrating the island. Their purpose is to acquire the "special ores" discovered in the island's interior. On Dumary Island, the people's simple religious piety, as well as the fabulous artifacts buried in the inner mountains, are now in great danger..."
 
Dienomite22 said:
it is possible that Balrog could be stronger than Bolverk
Click to expand...
The fact that it's stated Argosax's temple is guarded by his most skilled warrior means Bolverk is the warrior most fit for guarding it, as that's the literal definition of 'skill' - being capable of performing a certain duty well. Ie, Bolverk is his most powerful servant.

Balrog could be stronger but there is no particular reason to assume he is.
 
This is what we know of Bolverk

- Fought Sparda

- Ruled over remote region of god's

- Died in a great war and was reborn as an evil god

- Was Argosax's most skilled warrior

Isn't it reasonable to piece the timeline together like this.

Before Argosax's was sealed by Sparda

- Was Argosax's most skilled warrior

- Ruled over a remote region of god's

Argosax vs Sparda and Vie de Marli cla

- Bolverk fights Sparda

- Died during this period and was reborn as an evil god

Argosax is sealed centuries before DMC2 (and thus can't get any stronger than he was during the time when he fought Sparda)

- Sparda disappears

- Bolverk still guards Argosax's temple but has a deep hatred for the Sparda

- Bolverk becomes stronger than Argosax during the time it was sealed due to his hatred for Sparda and his resurrection

DMC2 happens
 
Well, I think the "great war" could potentially refer to the war that broke out in the Underworld after Mundus ate the Qliphoth's fruit and challenged the former ruler for dominance.

In fact, perhaps Bolverk is indeed Pluto. We have established via that one post I made that Pluto exists, was the ruler before Mundus, and had a legit 3-A feat. But Bolverk might be the true identity, with Pluto being just a general title.

Bolverk's design is remarkably similar to the one shown in the manga for the Demon God with the spear. He also wears a spear himself. He has the feats to fit in the lower sphere of the God-Tiers, and he was heavily implied to be Odin in DMC lore, so position-wise, it is fitting. Not only that, Bolverk was stated to have been killed before his eventual resurrection, which fits in with what the DMC1 guide says, with Mundus "slaying" the former god of evil and all. Heck, even the "God of Evil" description is similar.

All of this is speculation o'course, but it is not impossible.

Also, the fact that Bolverk was stated to have been rebor as an evil dude also fits in. Considering the former ruler wasn't all that bad from the little we know of him - he did separate both worlds to prevent more human deaths, afterall. So maybe Bolverk's past life wasn't all that bad. And that also fits in with the whole "Odin" implications, since Odin in the myths was worshipped as being a benevolent and wise god compared to everyone else in the whole pantheon.
 
Thinking about this stuff gives me a headache.It's all simple when taken piece by piece but once you try to fit everything down to the smallest details together it becomes bothersome.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Also, the fact that Bolverk was stated to have been rebor as an evil dude also fits in. Considering the former ruler wasn't all that bad from the little we know of him - he did separate both worlds to prevent more human deaths, afterall. So maybe Bolverk's past life wasn't all that bad. And that also fits in with the whole "Odin" implications, since Odin in the myths was worshipped as being a benevolent and wise god compared to everyone else in the whole pantheon.
Click to expand...
Bolverk is also noted to have knowledge and wisdom too so yea that fits as well.

Can you check the other Guideposts for Hunters in the DMC2 guidebook? They might have more lore/feats for DMC overall
 
Well, there's what I mentioned to Rebuble the other day, which is the fact that Arius's city is stated to be built from the bones of Nefasturris.
 
What? Does that mean Nefasturris IS the city or is giving an explanation on how Nefasturris warps out the building or is it both? Do you have a scan?

I'm actually quite upset that DMC2 left out cool information like this
 
Here is the relevant sca. The wording could go either way, but likely the former, going by the "the hunter has left the city derelict (ie., mistreated) and so the ancient awakens."

Mission 05's description also starts off with "The city's streets are borne of evil's will", so it'd seem that it is literal.
 
Oh that's pretty sick, wouldn't this upgrade Arius back to city level?And possibly give the ability to summoned it on his profile?
 
Yeah, I think Arius could go back to City level. This might scale to Lucia as well.

Nefasturris also drew in an electrical vortex of clouds nigh-instantaneously and passively warped the city's skies to a reddish color upon his awakening for the duration of his fight with Dante, as shown by it vanishing upon his death, so I'm not sure why those who scaled weren't ever higher.
 
There is also the fact that the guidebook states no fewer than 4 or more times that space and time are being distorted, stopped and reorganized by the approach of the Demon World in DMC2, but we for some reason ignore this, even though the in-game statements themselves imply it.


In fact, it is even stated 3 or so times that the eye-shaped portals Dante opens actually send him into the future and past, and Phantom's description for the fight (which happens immediately after Dante opens one of those portals) outright states that he is being brought back by a Time Paradox caused by the forces of darkness's distortions - showing that the distortions are so powerful and intense that one needs to time-travel through portals to escape their influence, and even the they affect causality and merge the past and the future together in many areas. And, by the way, DMC2 Dante should gain Resistance to Time Stop for being able to move around freely in the distorted Vie de Marli realm, which was stated to have its time stopped.

And all of this was being done by Argosax's Chaos form.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Ang4I00
A few simple and easy Devil May Cry additions[Abilities]
2
Replies
58
Views
5K
Random-Helper323
Random-Helper323
Human World can't contain the full power of Demon kings? (Devil May Cry)
Replies
2
Views
2K
SuperSonicTL
SuperSonicTL
Mister6ame6
Minor Nero Upgrade - DMC
Replies
35
Views
3K
Random-Helper323
Random-Helper323
Palito266
DMC Hax Revisions 2: Electric Boogaloo
Replies
32
Views
3K
Deagonx
Deagonx
chosen
  • Locked
Sparda Heritages can't heal from all that
Replies
20
Views
3K
Planck69
Planck69
Back
Top