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DMC Downgrades (the ones everyone expected)

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Demon World has been split in half before, for example Mundus vs Despair fighting for DW.
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they split control over it, not a ray of light cutting it

the only ray of light there ever has been is:

devil_may_cry_3_1_5.png


8661349-8167737600-devil.png
 
GilverTheProtoAngelo said:
Demon World has been split in half before, for example Mundus vs Despair fighting for DW.

Meanwhile HW cannot be ray of light and half of Darkness at same time.
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It’s vastly more likely it’s talking about the creation of the universe. It directly references the first light, and the Original Chaos.

It’s just a set of wording that mildly contradicts DMC3’s Manga. It’s unlikely to be half regardless, as the DW is infinite in size with multiple realms inside, including a copy of the HW as the front door.
 
Theglassman12 said:
Wouldn’t this event refer to Pluto given he’s kind of a big deal in PoC?
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Yes. He’s also, ironically, vindication of a theory made by a battle boarder about the DMC3 Manga (Kep). Which means that a lot of the stuff in the game around him drawing parallels to the Manga in some way are deliberate/intentional, even if a little confusing.
 
I'm unfollowing the thread after this post. But I have always found the 1-C rating to be iffy at best. Not that 9-D levels of spatial intangibility among other abilities for the souls is wrong. And don't have anything against Low 1-C given Oven's reasons.

Then again, Tier 1 stuff isn't my biggest specialty.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
I mentioned this before during DMC's upgrade to 1-C, but given the demon world sees the human world as nothing but a line of light, it should be qualitatively superior enough to be Low 1-C at the very least.

That being said, I agree that the eightfold path reasoning is pretty weak, and thr 9D scan by itself means absolutely nothing so it shouldn't scale in the first place.
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As Cyber and I have pointed out, I may not even be low 1-C, but I'll wait for that argument to play out more.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
Welp let's have some fun.

Lets start with the manga thing.

The demon world is called as the darkness because that is it's name, its the world of darkness, in this realm there are several dimensions (of unknown sizes) but we know that the demon world is indeed infinitely bigger than any of them including the human world or the world of light which is described as just a ray of light in the endless darkness that is the demon world. This isn't flowery, its literally talking about how they compare each other or in other words how big one is compared to the other.
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Okay, the issue is that there is no direct comparison between the two. The demon world is endless, sure, fine. The human world is "a ray of light"; Not in comparison to the demon world, not as "a ray of light in the endless darkness", it just... is a ray of light, without further elaboration. You're taking two separate statements and linking them in a way not written into the text in order to support your conclusion, even though nothing there actually supports it.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
Furthermore one such realm is the mirror dimension, this dimension which is a perfect copy of the human world (the human world is Low 2-C if it wasnt obvious enough) yet it is only the "entrance" to it. There are more like Mundus dimension which is an infinitely expanding universe beyond human understanding yet it only serves as a battleground for Mundus and Dante

Basically none of this shit is flowery language. And as per the tiering system and the FAQ this perfectly qualifies for Tier 1, specifically Low 1-C:
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Okay, so the obvious problem here is that none of these prove higher dimensionality. Yes, the demon world contains low 2-C structures within itself, but it is possible to do that and still be low 2-C, 2-C, 2-B... anything that isn't tier 1, really. You need an infinite difference, which has not been provided.

Tony_di_bugalu said:

Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level​

Characters or objects that can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)

A. One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc.
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You're missing a pretty big part of this paragraph my man:

"i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc."

As I said before, you haven't actually provided an infinite size difference, so nothing else here matters. It doesn't matter if the demon world embeds low 2-C structures in itself if it is not established as being infinitely superior to them. I can think of so many verses I could wank if we actually used that logic

Tony_di_bugalu said:
This would make the demon world capable of creating 9 dimensional items which as it's stated to be the entire origin of said object and on top of that it's stated to be higher dimensional. Just how 3D beings get created in 3D places. A 2D realm does not have the space within it to create or be the origin of a 3D being the primordial chaos is the origin of 9D things this should, especially when it's stated to be higher dimensional, make it also 9th Dimensional. This is according to this thread and what the page says:
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Higher dimensional beings can still exist within lower dimensional space. They just intersect with it while not fully existing in the dimensions that space lacks (eg; a 4D space can contain a 9D object, but only 4 dimensions of it). There are, of course, plenty of instances of higher-dimensional beings existing in lower-dimensional realms, whether it be by virtue of lowering their existential state to a lower dimension, or by virtue of the writers going "**** it" and not caring anymore. A mention of a 9-dimensional soul is not enough to prove that wherever that soul exists is also 9-dimensional.

Besides, think about the logistics of this for a moment. Beings with souls in DMC can exist within the human world, despite that world definitely not being 9D. Do you not see how this would create an issue if the souls were 100% legitimately higher dimensional, and you abided by your own logic as stated above? A 4D realm certainly cannot contain a 9D soul, so that should give you something to think about, at least,

Finally, you are once again ignoring how that section of the tiering FAQ still requires some degree of superiority to be shown, the only evidence of which is a statement saying that the demon world is infinite and some other place is small (not even in comparison, either). That is, again, not evidence of superiority.

Tony_di_bugalu said:
Also we were told that infinite hypervolume from higher dimensional spaces qualifies for higher tiers (both in the thread linked above and here) which supports our perfect wank

As a side note even fodder demons see the human world as "insignificant and like insects to them" and Arkham (a schoolar about demons and all that shit) says they are like looking at infinite
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They see humans as insignificant because they can't comprehend demons (or something like that, the translation is hard to make sense of). Similarly, saying something is "like looking at infinity" is not a literal depiction of qualitative superiority, just a way of mentioning a large gap in power or what have you.

As for the hypervolume stuff, although I am not an expert on this part of the tiering system, Ultima does specify that it has to actually be a higher-dimensional space, which is something still yet to be proven, because the main evidence of that is literally just "infinite darkness exists and also a ray of light exists".
 
Isn’t the whole point to verify whether all 9 dimensions are infinitely superior to one another? It seems to be referring to spatial dimensions, but their superiority is what’s important.
 
Comicgyal said:
Isn’t the whole point to verify whether all 9 dimensions are infinitely superior to one another? It seems to be referring to spatial dimensions, but their superiority is what’s important.
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wdym by all dimensions? dmc doesnt have an 8th dimension, 7th dimension etc. Just a 9D statement
 
Comicgyal said:
Isn’t the whole point to verify whether all 9 dimensions are infinitely superior to one another? It seems to be referring to spatial dimensions, but their superiority is what’s important.
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Not really no, we have had several instances where x amount of spatial dimensions was determined and only because the place applied as such it was given. Last time i checked in these cases we don't need to verify dimension by dimension
 
Comicgyal said:
If there are 9 dimensions, there has to be 1-9.
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One of the main reasons DMC was accepted as tier 1 because of what the FAQ Said
"One of the more straightforward ways to qualify for Tier 2 and up through higher dimensions is by affecting whole higher-dimensional universes which can embed the whole of lower-dimensional ones within themselves. For example: A cosmology where the entirety of our 3-dimensional universe is in fact a subset of a much greater 4-dimensional space, or generalizations of this same scenario to higher numbers of dimensions; i.e A cosmology where the four-dimensional spacetime continuum is just the infinitesimal surface of a 5-dimensional object, and etc. However, vaguer cases where a universe is merely stated to be higher-dimensional while existing in a scaling vacuum with no previously established relationship of superiority towards lower-dimensional ones (or no evidence to infer such a relationship from) should be analysed more carefully. In such cases where information as to their exact nature and scale is scarce, it is preferable that the higher dimensions in question be fully-sized in order to qualify."

There isn't anything like the 7th dimension, 8th dimension in DMC but it still qualifies for tier 1-c
 
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Anyway, neutral atm till someone that understands and speaks chinese talks about the validy of PoC's scan since that's the big fish to fry
 
Agree with the downgrade, there is nothing to indicate that the qualitative gap between all dimensions exists (like between 5-D and 6-D etc), although I don't mind a Low 1-C rating since 4-D being embedded within 9-D/the higher dimension still qualifies according to our standard (I copy my reply from the previous 1-C upgrade thread lol).
 
Delta333 said:
Agree with the downgrade, there is nothing to indicate that the qualitative gap between all dimensions exists (like between 5-D and 6-D etc), although I don't mind a Low 1-C rating since 4-D being embedded within 9-D/the higher dimension still qualifies according to our standard (I copy my reply from the previous 1-C upgrade thread lol).
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..DMC doesn't have shit like the 6th dimension, 7h dimension in the first place. It was accepted as 1-C because of the FAQ
 
I’ve honestly never heard of a verse that takes a leap in dimensions. I don’t understand the logic that there are only what, a 3rd dimension, and then a ninth one?
 
In regards to the infinite size difference, we know several things.

Firstly, the wording. If the human world is likened to a ray of light while the demon world is referred to as infinite darkness, then it literally doesn't matter how big the ray of light is; a single ray of light is finite, and literally any finite object is infinitely smaller than an infinite one. So this does refer to an infinite size difference.

In regards to holding smaller constructs as subsets, the mirror world and Mundus' dimension, the former of which is a copy of the human world and the latter of which is an infinitely expanding universe, could both be easily contained by the demon world, with the former embedded in it as an entrance between the human world and the demon world.

We also know the demon world is at very least a seperate space-time due to its time flowing differently not only from that of the human world, but also differently in different parts of the demon world, including in different dimensions (one referred to as a Nirvana in DMC3) within the demon world. This means the demon world contains multiple seperate time flows within itself, including seperate dimensions with their own time flow, and that's in addition to having the mirror world as a doorway.
 
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