• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Divine Dimensionnal Dance: Shinza Bansho Gods downgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.
Anyway my thing I mentioned can be discussed in DM, although im hesitant to reveal a while lot.

Ill maybe post it tomorrow but ill stop discussing it here due to derailment.
 
🤔🤔 I am not sure about taking explanation of the narrator using "higher - dimension" to mean the gods have dimensions.

I mean all concepts (including dimension) is literally within the throne and originates from the throne, same throne the gods can destroy on a whim. I mean the reason for the throne is to sustain the weight of the gods so they dont crush the rest of creation with their weight.

I dont really like having messy arguments, but i just dont get the taking of one part while neglecting the rest.

Would like for the people supporting the OP to explain how the throne something that is supposedly the source of the concept of dimensions in shinza has dimensions?? Or you think expanding the concept that originated from the throne means you can reach the said throne?

And you also took the hyperdimensional throne out of context, (hyper is also a synonym for above, beyond whatever you want to say).

Anyway I disagree
 
Last edited:
Pain_to12 said:
Would like for the people supporting the OP how the throne something that is supposedly the source of the concept of dimensions in shinza has dimensions?? Or you think expanding the concept that originated from the throne means you can reach the said throne?
Click to expand...

Taikyoku--Origin of all things in Onmyoudou (Way of Yin and Yang), concept pointing to the nucleus of the universe.
(Literally means taikyoku is the source of everything)


To draw power and grasp the knowledge of everything, the source of all phenomena and the origin of all things. To see all and do all.
 
Ned_the_outer_god said:
LMAO, I was dreaming last night about how the series will be downgraded to 1-B. Anyways, neutral but leaning to agreement, the years of really OP Shinza is no more!
Click to expand...
1-B is still pretty OP tho?

Also look at the good side, now shinza can have more reasonable matches instead of the usual 1A BS where each side just brag about measurement contest
 
Neutral for now, derail and nonsense aside both parties given a pretty good counter arguments so i can't dcide which i agreed/disagreed for now
ZERO7772 said:
1-B is still pretty OP tho?

Also look at the good side, now shinza can have more reasonable matches instead of the usual 1A BS where each side just brag about measurement contest
Click to expand...
And here i'm hoping for lower tiers shinza to get more freedom and reasonable matches because damn the haxes limited their match-up
 
I disagree with the downgrade but I'll point out some context to contribute to this thread.

あい さくた "神は世界の法と概念の外に存在し、それらに従わない。それ


"God exists outside the laws and concepts of the world and does not obey them."

I also found some context

"These Hadō gods are not only beyond the concept of Dimensions, but they are completely boundless to everything that exist including Binary Opposition, Concepts, Space-Time, Reality and so on."
 
Last edited:
Pain_to12 said:

Taikyoku--Origin of all things in Onmyoudou (Way of Yin and Yang), concept pointing to the nucleus of the universe.
(Literally means taikyoku is the source of everything)


To draw power and grasp the knowledge of everything, the source of all phenomena and the origin of all things. To see all and do all.
Click to expand...
Just being the origin of everything isn't enough tho. I mean, Arceus would be 1-A otherwise.
The OP of the upgrade thread acknowledged that himself too.

(Also you can discard this, but it very likely apply to the current iteration of the world, since the Throne is constantly treated the same despite obviously not being the reason for all of existence since the beginning)
 
PsychoWarper said:
Anyway my thing I mentioned can be discussed in DM, although im hesitant to reveal a while lot.

Ill maybe post it tomorrow but ill stop discussing it here due to derailment.
Click to expand...
If you don't mind, I would be interrested to hear your thing in DM, since I intend to do more Shinza-related stuff than just this.
 
Nero said:
I disagree with the downgrade but I'll point out some context to contribute to this thread.

あい さくた "神は世界の法と概念の外に存在し、それらに従わない。それ


"God exists outside the laws and concepts of the world and does not obey them."

I also found some context

"These Hadō gods are not only beyond the concept of Dimensions, but they are completely boundless to everything that exist including Binary Opposition, Concepts, Space-Time, Reality and so on."
Click to expand...
The first one is pretty known. Gods are their own world with their own laws (which we put as type 5 Accausality for some reason but this is a debate for another thread)

Second is pretty odd since it's directly contradicted by feat. Especially space-time when we have things like getting paradoxed or the Twilight Beach being a "temporal plane".
 
YuriAkuto said:
The first one is pretty known. Gods are their own world with their own laws (which we put as type 5 Accausality for some reason but this is a debate for another thread)

Second is pretty odd since it's directly contradicted by feat. Especially space-time when we have things like getting paradoxed or the Twilight Beach being a "temporal plane".
Click to expand...
Anyways if this downgrade gets approved then Senshinkan 1-A cuz they view shinza as fiction
 
YuriAkuto said:
Just being the origin of everything isn't enough tho. I mean, Arceus would be 1-A otherwise.
The OP of the upgrade thread acknowledged that himself too.
Click to expand...
Never said it was enough I said you are ignoring it.
And I dont know who arceus is or his context but the context of shinza is that taikyoku is the source of even the concept of dimensions, literally means superior to it in every form
YuriAkuto said:
(Also you can discard this, but it very likely apply to the current iteration of the world, since the Throne is constantly treated the same despite obviously not being the reason for all of existence since the beginning)
Click to expand...
Sorry I said throne, I meant taikyoku
 
Pain_to12 said:
Never said it was enough I said you are ignoring it.
And I dont know who arceus is or his context but the context of shinza is that taikyoku is the source of even the concept of dimensions, literally means superior to it in every form
Click to expand...
How am I ignoring something I acknowledge already?
Also being the source of something doesn't make you beyond its every form. Otherwise a lot of demiurge would be 1-A.
Pain_to12 said:
Sorry I said throne, I meant taikyoku
Click to expand...
You said Taikyoku. What I meant is that the Throne has the same statements about it, despite obviously not be the source of everything.
 
Nero said:
Exist outside the world's law

About the Hadou Gods being beyond dimensions and etc.

大極を持つ神は、次元、物理学、時空などを含むすべての概念と現象の源であり、それを超えています

God with Taikyoku is the source and beyond of all concepts and, Phenomenon which includes dimensions, physics, space-time, etc.
Click to expand...
I'm checking through K3's files to bring the greater context here (since your quote isn't all of any of the two pictures to begin with); but didn't find it yet.
 
YuriAkuto said:
The first one is pretty known. Gods are their own world with their own laws (which we put as type 5 Accausality for some reason but this is a debate for another thread)

Second is pretty odd since it's directly contradicted by feat. Especially space-time when we have things like getting paradoxed or the Twilight Beach being a "temporal plane".
Click to expand...
What do you mean by the twilight beach is a temporal plane?
 
YuriAkuto said:
-While it's considered outside of everything and all, the Twilight Beach is stated to be a place with frozen time (the constant everlasting, unchanging etc... stuff coming from this too), even being called "another temporal plane".

I'm mentionning this because the beach is the singularity of the world of Foreknowledge. Meaning it would go against the idea of 1-A transcendance over all concepts and be more logic with everything above (I know that you can technically be 1-A and have time under the current system, but another evidence is never a bad thing).
Click to expand...
 
YuriAkuto said:
How am I ignoring something I acknowledge already?
Also being the source of something doesn't make you beyond its every form. Otherwise a lot of demiurge would be 1-A.
Click to expand...
Like I said I don't care about other verses, and really dont know about them.
What I said is how taikyoku is not above dimensions if its supposed to be the source of dimensions?
YuriAkuto said:
You said Taikyoku. What I meant is that the Throne has the same statements about it, despite obviously not be the source of everything.
Click to expand...
Okay how does that change the fact that taikyoku is the source of everything?
 
YuriAkuto said:
I'm checking through K3's files to bring the greater context here (since your quote isn't all of any of the two pictures to begin with); but didn't find it yet.
Click to expand...
Maybe I ask where this 大極を持つ神は、次元、物理学、時空などを含むすべての概念と現象の源であり、それを超えています comes from? Not from the scans you posted as far as I see; and I don't find it in K3 txt files either.
 
YuriAkuto said:
Maybe I ask where this 大極を持つ神は、次元、物理学、時空などを含むすべての概念と現象の源であり、それを超えています comes from? Not from the scans you posted as far as I see; and I don't find it in K3 txt files either.
Click to expand...
Can you share me the K3 text files?
 
Pain_to12 said:
Like I said I don't care about other verses, and really dont know about them.
What I said is how taikyoku is not above dimensions if its supposed to be the source of dimensions?
Click to expand...
Because creating something doesn't mean you have an 1-A transcendance over them. If you ignore the fact that it never was a criteria of 1-A for any verses it'll go nowhere.
Pain_to12 said:
Okay how does that change the fact that taikyoku is the source of everything?
Click to expand...
Besides the iteration thing was a side note, the fact is that it doesn't matter much for 1-A transcendance.
 
YuriAkuto said:
Because creating something doesn't mean you have an 1-A transcendance over them. If you ignore the fact that it never was a criteria of 1-A for any verses it'll go nowhere.
Click to expand...
Okay to better see how I can reply, your argument is that
1. even though the taikyoku is the source of dimensionality in the verse, it does not transcends the said that dimensions?
2. The throne been a place beyond-dimensions is also wrong?

Sorry just trying to find what you are saying dont want to have a messy argument, so please is this the argument?
 
Pain_to12 said:
Okay to better see how I can reply, your argument is that
1. even though the taikyoku is the source of dimensionality in the verse, it does not transcends the said that dimensions?
2. The throne been a place beyond-dimensions is also wrong?

Sorry just trying to find what you are saying dont want to have a messy argument, so please is this the argument?
Click to expand...
Your two questions are already answered in the OP tbh. The section before me explaining and presenting feats showing dimensions sure affect the Gods.
 
YuriAkuto said:
Maybe I ask where this 大極を持つ神は、次元、物理学、時空などを含むすべての概念と現象の源であり、それを超えています comes from? Not from the scans you posted as far as I see; and I don't find it in K3 txt files either.
Click to expand...
I suspect it could be from some guide book or wiki
 
YuriAkuto said:
Your two questions are already answered in the OP tbh.
Click to expand...
No not exactly.
I mean the throne space stated to be beyond dimensions should actually count as a 1A structure the reason why it is not was never answered in the OP

Tbh I am confused as why the throne being above D structures and the taikyoku being above all things is not a 1A structure.
 
Pain_to12 said:
No not exactly.
I mean the throne space stated to be beyond dimensions should actually count as a 1A structure the reason why it is not was never answered in the OP

Tbh I am confused as why the throne being above D structures and the taikyoku being above all things is not a 1A structure.
Click to expand...
It's litteraly answered in the OP. Second point before the one with feats of being affected by dimensions.

Because Hyperdimensional/Cho Jigen/超次元 just mean something above 3D, not above any possible dimensionnal structures (especially when it's origin is some sort of space-time accident).
Taiji being above everything (besides your quote origin being a full unknown) also isn't enough for 1-A. Even more with the evidences in the OP proving Taiji is related and affected by dimensional stuff.
 
YuriAkuto said:
Maybe I ask where this 大極を持つ神は、次元、物理学、時空などを含むすべての概念と現象の源であり、それを超えています comes from? Not from the scans you posted as far as I see; and I don't find it in K3 txt files either.
Click to expand...
Wait I'm still asking for the Taiji scans but i do have another context saying Gods isnt tied to concepts of dimensions.

Scan
 
Nero said:
Wait I'm still asking for the Taiji scans but i do have another context saying Gods isnt tied to concepts of dimensions.

Scan
Click to expand...
... It's litteraly a poor edit with a picture of Habaki in the background.
I don't want to judge or anything but c'mon.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

AppleLord
Quincy Physiology “Electron” Removal CRT
Replies
12
Views
2K
Damage3245
Damage3245
Ihsjihahxu
Yogiri takatou concept manipulation
Replies
9
Views
1K
Laviossiii
Laviossiii
AlexZiggy
  • Locked
Saint Seiya The Lost Upgrade (2-A)
Replies
26
Views
3K
AlexZiggy
AlexZiggy
Minaaaa
  • Locked
Sentai 2-C Upgrade
Replies
21
Views
2K
Minaaaa
Minaaaa
Minaaaa
Ryusoulger Ability Update
Replies
14
Views
970
Minaaaa
Minaaaa
Back
Top