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Discord vs Joker (Ren Amamiya)
- Thread starter Angeltripper
- Start date
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Fantastic way to answer my question. I ask how he's gonna use charisma while a completely different dimension from Discord and I get "by using charisma" with absolutely no explanation. Like, I'm sorry if that came out harsh, but that answer is just so frustrating. It doesn't tell me anything. How is he gonna talk Discord into letting him out when he's in an completely different dimension from him? You can't talk someone into letting you go if you can't talk to them.Multipize said:
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I thought the wincon for Discord was teleporting them BOTH out of the Metaverse, then killing Joker. If Discord /tp's just Joker out of the Metaverse, Joker can just go back in using the MetaNav. BFR isn't a valid wincon by itself in this case.
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So, what does the metanav do exactly?
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It allows Joker to enter the Metaverse, assuming that Joker has all the required information, which he should considering he's in the Metaverse with Discord in the first place.
If Discord just hangs out, Joker just waltzes right back in (figuratively speaking, of course) and then kills Discord before he can do it again. Or anything else, for that matter.
If Discord just hangs out, Joker just waltzes right back in (figuratively speaking, of course) and then kills Discord before he can do it again. Or anything else, for that matter.
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Does it matter? If it's in Mementos, Joker gets back in with 0 issue. Same if it's an individual palace.YungManzi said:
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Because Joker's Personas don't work outside of the Metaverse? Fighters need to be in a setting where they can at least try to defend themselves, otherwise that's just gratuitous slaughter. It'd be like Superman vs. Joker, except they're in a pitch-black room and Superman has no solar energy to speak of. It would just be an execution.MrKerf said:
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We don't assume people who go against Kirito are in SAO. Or people going against digimon are in the digital world.
I'm pretty sur ewe just assume they are in a neutral universe which functions the same as the universe they fight in. Which doesn't make too much of a difference, I suppose.
I'm pretty sur ewe just assume they are in a neutral universe which functions the same as the universe they fight in. Which doesn't make too much of a difference, I suppose.
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Say they met each other in Mementos and started fighting because Discord talked sh*t about Joker's outfit. I don't know, I'm doing my best to help make something out of this match.
If you want definitive clarification on setting, ask the OP. They should be able to tell you.
If you want definitive clarification on setting, ask the OP. They should be able to tell you.
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I could see that. In which case, I think the outcome remains the same, though. Minus the BFR via teleportation, because none of the other rulers could do it despite having absolute control over their palace.Multipize said:
By the way, BFR shouldn't work anyway because Joker's Persona projects a field around him that gives him resistance to space manipulation shenanigans like Teleport BFR. Just remembered that. Sorry.
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I could see that. In which case, I think the outcome remains the same, though. Minus the BFR via teleportation, because none of the other rulers could do it despite having absolute control over their palace.
By the way, BFR shouldn't work anyway because Joker's Persona projects a field around him that gives him resistance to space manipulation shenanigans like Teleport BFR. Just remembered that. Sorry.
It could work if he doesn't get the barrier up because this chaos god can removes some magic
Joker still not immune to power null
By the way, BFR shouldn't work anyway because Joker's Persona projects a field around him that gives him resistance to space manipulation shenanigans like Teleport BFR. Just remembered that. Sorry.
It could work if he doesn't get the barrier up because this chaos god can removes some magic
Joker still not immune to power null
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Yeah, but his charisma is. So, what'll happen is Joker sweet-talks Discord into turning his Persona on. At which point, Joker death haxxes because I doubt he's gonna want to fight someone who can just turn off his Personas. At least, that's the way I see it.Multipize said:
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No guys, Joker magically talking and convicing a crazy Guy like Discord isn't going to work, look how well it went for the Ponies.
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Discord has been convinced to do and not do things before. Why can't Joker do it?I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
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Remeber when Discord was going to throw treehugger into an alternate dimension, but was conviced otherwise or the time he was going to arrest tirek, but was conviced not to by the very cirminal he was trying to arrest Can we all stop downplaying the one thing inveitable part of both their charactersI'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
Discord's over-confidence, and Joker's Charisma.
We need to reread the information presented and get some votes in.
(If you intend on delaying the FRA train any longer remeber to explain why. This page has been through a lot and, I just want this to end)
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Couldn't have said it any better myself. Joker FRA.
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Yeah no, big problem with this argument is that there is a difference in the time he was trying to throw treehugger and him VS Joker, here, his 1st thing will be to remove Joker's powers.
Overconfidence means nothing considering in character much of his encounters were to remove the casts powers, you would have a point if in character Dissy didn't use his good hax against opponents 1st thing, but he does do this.
Overconfidence means nothing considering in character much of his encounters were to remove the casts powers, you would have a point if in character Dissy didn't use his good hax against opponents 1st thing, but he does do this.
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The only thing that power null has been shown to work on is magic. Therefore, Joker's charisma would be unaffected. Discord's power null seems to fall under counterspelling, which, while being a kind of power null, would only work on magic. Stop wanking Discord and downplaying Joker.
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>Stop wanking DiscordSmashkabab said:
1st of all, that's a Fallacy. 2nd of all, debating for a character /=/ Liking him. I HATE Discord as well as the whole MLP verse with a burning passion, MLP is one of my least favorite verses out there, heck, I almost got banned for insulting it so much.
Anyway, that was just something that irked me, let's go to the meat of your argument.
>Discord's Powerrnull is only on magic.
Yeah, thing is though that the only way Joker can win is via magic and his hax. Joker can lead a group and has good charisma, but his social influencing is nowhere near potent enought to convince Discord to not BFR him away or turning him into a teddy bear after removing his powers.
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> The only way Joker can win is via his magic and his hax.I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
I couldn't agree more.
> His social influencing is nowhere near potent enought to convince Discord
You can't say something like that without in-verse feats, in this case, feats of not being convinced to do things, of which Discord has 2 anti-feats.
Even if you're not wanking Discord, you're DEFINITELY downplaying Joker.
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How is his charisma not enough. He regulary convices people and shadows who try to kill him to work for his cause. Discord has been exposed for his overconfidence in his plans and himself 4 times now. Can we talk about how Joker's death haxs are instant, and the relativley harmless looking teddybears with nothing but sticks of dynamite wouldn't even alarm him to assume he would even do anything. Even taking Alice out of the picture you keeping pretending that Discord is not a cocky fighterSmashkabab said:
(Despite that being one of his 2 weaknesses)
. This is a stretch at best, and illogical at worse. If you're going to stay incon please provide a valid reason
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Okey then, I vote incon because Discord can null joker and then BFR him or Turn him into a teddy bear via a thought. Joker's hax is via thought, so I vote incon
Discord's cockyness doesn't mean he doesn't use his hax and wouldn't use it as quick as he can
Discord's cockyness doesn't mean he doesn't use his hax and wouldn't use it as quick as he can
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So despite the fact Discord has been tricked into doing what someone else wantsI'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
Or the fact that he toys with his opponents
You think that Discord is a quick, effecient, hitman. Even Lightuster knows that sounds nothing like Discord. He's not bloodlusted anymore. You need to format your argument differently.
1st you need to have an instance of Discord not getting being talked into doing what someone else wants after season 4 mind you
2nd You need to think of a way for Discord to take Joker seriously . If he doesn't then Discord won't go all out, and will be susceptible instant death via Jokers many insta kills
3rd Joker vs transmutation no you can not scale the Rat section in Persona 5 to this. It's a staus aliment not transmutation. He still has Persona's During the Mutation. While Discord gets his giggles about how cute a teddy bear in a black coat and mask is. He';s not safe from the instant Death haxs which Joker can find he doesn't resist throught his third eye
4th You need a scene of Discord in character BFR'ing Immediatley with no time in between The portal and banishment to represent an in character moment to justify your incon
If you can get 2 outta 4 of those then you have the odds in Discord favor otherwise your just typing easily disprovable arguments
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In which case, Joker wins due to having a more reliable wincon and better constructed arguments for that wincon.
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Proceeds to forget the instance with Sae Niijima, someone who was actively hostile towards Joker and took him VERY seriously in regards to him lying to/otherwise tricking her.MrKerf said:
In all seriousness though, that Sae instance, along with having been trained by someone experienced in public speaking, along with plenty of experience himself via talking with Shadows should be enough feats of superhuman charisma to give Joker/Ren/Akira the ability to convince Discord to turn his Persona back on.
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"It wasn't a combat feat."
If all we took into account were combat feats, a lot of characters on this wiki would be weaker than they are now, including Discord. A feat outside of combat is still a feat.
"It took more time than it would take in battle."
Fair enough. So what about Shadows? All Joker does is say like 3 words and they happily turn into a Persona. I don't see the "well, they're already almost defeated" argument as sound considering they can still fight, and do so whenever given an opening, regardless of how injured they are.
"It's not in character." How so? If Joker can convince Shadows to effectively give up their body and autonomy indefinitely because they like the cut of his jib, there's absolutely no reason why Joker can't convince an overconfident enemy that has 2 instances of being convinced to do things by characters without ANY charisma boosts to give his powers back.
If all we took into account were combat feats, a lot of characters on this wiki would be weaker than they are now, including Discord. A feat outside of combat is still a feat.
"It took more time than it would take in battle."
Fair enough. So what about Shadows? All Joker does is say like 3 words and they happily turn into a Persona. I don't see the "well, they're already almost defeated" argument as sound considering they can still fight, and do so whenever given an opening, regardless of how injured they are.
"It's not in character." How so? If Joker can convince Shadows to effectively give up their body and autonomy indefinitely because they like the cut of his jib, there's absolutely no reason why Joker can't convince an overconfident enemy that has 2 instances of being convinced to do things by characters without ANY charisma boosts to give his powers back.
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Okay, that sounds a little bit like game mechanics at work, but I'll go along with it for now. So, Joker doesn't USUALLY negotiate with the enemy when they aren't downed, but he's also good at negotiating in tight spots where the enemy has the power in the situation, such as literally every time a party member is taken hostage.
So, what would happen in your scenario is that Joker gets his powers nulled, hacks away at Discord for a little bit, sees that it's doing nothing because regen is a thing, and gets Discord to give his powers back on a whim because Discord has a god complex and likes to play with his enemies before finishing them.
So, what would happen in your scenario is that Joker gets his powers nulled, hacks away at Discord for a little bit, sees that it's doing nothing because regen is a thing, and gets Discord to give his powers back on a whim because Discord has a god complex and likes to play with his enemies before finishing them.
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