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Diavolo encounters the strongest Stardust Crusader
- Thread starter SpookyShadow
- Start date
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Diavolo lolnopes anything Jotaro tries then donuts him. Voting Diavolo.
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Just reread the fight situation and imo Jotaro takes it. If Polnareff tells Jotaro about KC all Jotaro has to do is use the blood trick and wait till Diavolo skips time once he notices time is skipped he can time stop and win the battle since Diavolo would've just finished using time skip so he can't really defend himself (I don't think he could anyways but that's up to debate)
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Outside help is not allowed
EDIT: Nevermind, OP stated prior knowledge
EDIT: Nevermind, OP stated prior knowledge
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@Re2Y The first part of your other comment could have been interpreted as Diavolo not skipping time at all, as in him not having time manip, a simple reply to it doesn't really matter as there was no points to back that up.
I never said time stop itself wouldn't work within erased time, attacking Diavolo is what wouldn't work. Sure, without time one wouldn't be able to stop it, but no one should be able to even move as well, this is why Diavolo has Causality Manipulation, the application of that power is what makes every attack on Diavolo do nothing. If Diavolo had something like intangibility that would be bypassed by a number of stuff, but what he does if take away an uncommon concept from the rest of the universe that they need to be able to affect him. That's why you can see users saying that Diavolo can survive a lot of OP things like blows with an AP millions of times above KC's, mindhax, and, in this case, attacks within stopped time. They all lack what's needed to affect Diavolo when there is no "time".
As for your last comment, there are 3 things to take into consideration; 1) Diavolo will see him do that and throw earth or his blood at him. 2) You should read what his speed says in his profile; "While later Diavolo was attacked by Silver Chariot before King Crimson could defend him, Diavolo was also initially wondering if Polnareff's spiritual strength was wasted away, which wasn't the case, Polnareff also stated that he only barely dodged King Crimson at the time and that whether or not Giorno could defend against it is a matter of luck", Diavolo was underestimating the old Pol, who even had in-universe luck and plot convenience on his side as 3) Diavolo can still see the future within erased time, he will see himself damaged by Jotaro and keep using his ability for a while or quickly stop using it and make use of it again, getting pass what he saw. It's reeealy convenient for Bruno and Pol that Diavolo's precog wasn't seen at all when they attacked Diavolo after his time erase.
I never said time stop itself wouldn't work within erased time, attacking Diavolo is what wouldn't work. Sure, without time one wouldn't be able to stop it, but no one should be able to even move as well, this is why Diavolo has Causality Manipulation, the application of that power is what makes every attack on Diavolo do nothing. If Diavolo had something like intangibility that would be bypassed by a number of stuff, but what he does if take away an uncommon concept from the rest of the universe that they need to be able to affect him. That's why you can see users saying that Diavolo can survive a lot of OP things like blows with an AP millions of times above KC's, mindhax, and, in this case, attacks within stopped time. They all lack what's needed to affect Diavolo when there is no "time".
As for your last comment, there are 3 things to take into consideration; 1) Diavolo will see him do that and throw earth or his blood at him. 2) You should read what his speed says in his profile; "While later Diavolo was attacked by Silver Chariot before King Crimson could defend him, Diavolo was also initially wondering if Polnareff's spiritual strength was wasted away, which wasn't the case, Polnareff also stated that he only barely dodged King Crimson at the time and that whether or not Giorno could defend against it is a matter of luck", Diavolo was underestimating the old Pol, who even had in-universe luck and plot convenience on his side as 3) Diavolo can still see the future within erased time, he will see himself damaged by Jotaro and keep using his ability for a while or quickly stop using it and make use of it again, getting pass what he saw. It's reeealy convenient for Bruno and Pol that Diavolo's precog wasn't seen at all when they attacked Diavolo after his time erase.
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That would make it a more decisive victory for Diavolo since Jotaro's time stop was a mere 0.5-2 seconds in Part 4.
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The Devil FRA
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Most of my matches tend to need 2 months to reach grace, so I feel you.SpookyShadow said:
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@Eficiente 1)If he throws blood at him Jotaro will know immediately anyways and SP is fast enough to react to that imo if not again Jotaro will know time is skipped and panic time stop. 2) the "It's luck I was barely able to dodge him once" is luck because it depends on fast you're stand is and if you guess at what angle Diavolo is coming from, that doesn't matter because Jotaro doesn't have to move a muscle to activate time stop. 3) In this scenario his precog won't matter as he would have already activated KC and those ten seconds are up also I don't think Epitaph can see through stopped time I think all he'd see is the outcome or him getting blown back.
I won't try to debate your counter point on attacks phasing through Diavolo as I already saw it as a possibility that could definitely occur and that might end Jotaro if it wasn't for the OP conditions this is part 6 Jotaro with Intel on KC so I do think he'd go with the option I proposed rather than get himself into a trap. Though a blind Jotaro does get donuted ƒì® but Intel is really key here.
I won't try to debate your counter point on attacks phasing through Diavolo as I already saw it as a possibility that could definitely occur and that might end Jotaro if it wasn't for the OP conditions this is part 6 Jotaro with Intel on KC so I do think he'd go with the option I proposed rather than get himself into a trap. Though a blind Jotaro does get donuted ƒì® but Intel is really key here.
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https://powerlisting.fandom.com/wiki/Causality_Manipulation Yeah Diavolo doesn't have any of that. But I think the possibility of Star Platinum not being able to attack during time skip is possible but not a guarantee since KC can't touch anyone during his time Erasure so Jotaro shouldn't either but it's also possible that time stop follows it's own rules that allows him to attack Diavolo since technically Jotaro's in stopped time not time skip once he activates it.
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He does. Its just a minor application of it
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- Thread starter
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Wow. This seriously got concluded.
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There are 10 votes for Diavolo btw, not 7
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._.
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Dude, grace is 24 hours. No need to wait a month for it owo.
BTW, how is Diavolo skipping stopped time exactly? There's no flow of time in... stopped time. He shouldn't be able to skip time that is frozen.
BTW, how is Diavolo skipping stopped time exactly? There's no flow of time in... stopped time. He shouldn't be able to skip time that is frozen.
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Thats not the reason for him to win this tho
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I mean. I waited for 7 votes one month. Not for adding the match
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I know. It was a terrible joke to begin with.
@Emperor then what's stopping Jotaro from Za Warudoing and whooping his sardinian butt into oblivion inside the stopped time stop exactly?
@Emperor then what's stopping Jotaro from Za Warudoing and whooping his sardinian butt into oblivion inside the stopped time stop exactly?
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-50 meters distanceThe Calaca said:
-Epitath
-Diavolo skipping time first
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Okay, seems fair.
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When time is stopped, time still exists. It's just that whatever Jotaro does, simply happens in 0 seconds since its flow is stopped. Since time still exists, Diavolo can still erase it.The Calaca said:
Besides, just ask yourself this question: how would Jotaro be able to stop time that doesn't exist?
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1) Again, precog, keeps time erase, and now Jotaro can't stop time due to his cooldown. And no, we don't know if Jotaro will immediately know that, people after time erase was unaware of having food in his mouth and more stuff like that, Jotaro will have an idea of what to expect but that doesn't remove the fact that he never experienced it before like Pol or Bruno & his team when Diavolo was under PIS and spamming his power for no reason. 2) That's fair, it was more so added due to your comment before about it tho. 3) That is false, again, the precog works within time erase and he wouldn't see what Jotaro does in the time stop, he will see the result of it; Himself damaged. Also even if he only gets his precog before the time erase he will see himself attacked in the position in which he's about to put himself...so yeah.Re2Y said:
As other said before, he does. I mean come on, if only the results end up happening then what do you think is being taken away? Time stop following its own rules is a headcanon, so it is to say that Jotaro is no longer in time erase via using time stop. Then again, Jotaro's own time would need resistence to getting erased or he would need to create his own time within time stop.Re2Y said:
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1) Again, precog, keeps time erase, and now Jotaro can't stop time due to his cooldown. And no, we don't know if Jotaro will immediately know that, people after time erase was unaware of having food in his mouth and more stuff like that, Jotaro will have an idea of what to expect but that doesn't remove the fact that he never experienced it before like Pol or Bruno & his team when Diavolo was under PIS and spamming his power for no reason. 2) That's fair, it was more so added due to your comment before about it tho. 3) That is false, again, the precog works within time erase and he wouldn't see what Jotaro does in the time stop, he will see the result of it; Himself damaged. Also even if he only gets his precog before the time erase he will see himself attacked in the position in which he's about to put himself...so yeah.
No what it said is that it takes away the result of an action so the cause without effect Soo it's GER the opposite of Diavolo's ability and for your reply to my first point think of it like this Jotaro is looking at his finger and he knows how the ability works, he sees blood coming at him not sure if SP is fast enough to react to that but it's not impossible imo, but Jotaro will be blinded Jotaro will immediately know what Diavolo did because a) it's obvious or b) Dio did this twice with the knives and with his legs. For the third point maybe I'm misunderstanding but from what I understood you said that Diavolo's precog works within time Erasure (ok that's true as seen in the GER fight) so he'd see Jotaro stopping time and move out of the way but that doesn't change much if KC had just used time Erasure and Jotaro uses his time stop right after (in this situation Jotaro doesn't use his time stop during Diavolo's time erasure and he uses it after it)and catches Diavolo tbh precog won't matter at that point because all he'd be able to do is use epitaph to see the future but couldn't "erase" anything that quickly before Jotaro uses time stop as Diavolo has to activate KC immediately after he just did before Jotaro stops time and I think he has a certain cool down not as much as SP but enough that it is at least a second maybe that's just headcanon but even if Diavolo doesn't know what Jotaro's doing. Again can you please gimme an explanation on how you think King Crimson works as it would make it easier to understand some of your points.
As other said before, he does. I mean come on, if only the results end up happening then what do you think is being taken away? Time stop following its own rules is a headcanon, so it is to say that Jotaro is no longer in time erase via using time stop. Then again, Jotaro's own time would need resistence to getting erased or he would need to create his own time within time stop.Re2Y said:
No what it said is that it takes away the result of an action so the cause without effect Soo it's GER the opposite of Diavolo's ability and for your reply to my first point think of it like this Jotaro is looking at his finger and he knows how the ability works, he sees blood coming at him not sure if SP is fast enough to react to that but it's not impossible imo, but Jotaro will be blinded Jotaro will immediately know what Diavolo did because a) it's obvious or b) Dio did this twice with the knives and with his legs. For the third point maybe I'm misunderstanding but from what I understood you said that Diavolo's precog works within time Erasure (ok that's true as seen in the GER fight) so he'd see Jotaro stopping time and move out of the way but that doesn't change much if KC had just used time Erasure and Jotaro uses his time stop right after (in this situation Jotaro doesn't use his time stop during Diavolo's time erasure and he uses it after it)and catches Diavolo tbh precog won't matter at that point because all he'd be able to do is use epitaph to see the future but couldn't "erase" anything that quickly before Jotaro uses time stop as Diavolo has to activate KC immediately after he just did before Jotaro stops time and I think he has a certain cool down not as much as SP but enough that it is at least a second maybe that's just headcanon but even if Diavolo doesn't know what Jotaro's doing. Again can you please gimme an explanation on how you think King Crimson works as it would make it easier to understand some of your points.
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Taking away the effect of an action from cause and effect is Causality Manip
And he doesnt have a cooldown. That was never implied
And he doesnt have a cooldown. That was never implied
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It's in the quote of his Stand, time erase takes away the actions, not the result. With stuff like a person not knowing that he was grabbing his own amputated arm and the whole world not knowing this, including Jotaro, just knowing what to expect is still not a guarantee of reacting to it the same way Bruno's team had.
>"(in this situation Jotaro doesn't use his time stop during Diavolo's time erasure and he uses it after it)"
This is wrong, if he were to not use it Diavolo would just win, Jotaro using it is what makes Diavolo keep erasing time. The action of him using time stop did happen, it just did nothing to Diavolo.
>"tbh precog won't matter at that point because all he'd be able to do is use epitaph to see the future but couldn't "erase" anything that quickly"
He doesn't need to as all he has to do is not stop using time erase. For the part after that, same as before, Jotaro just used time stop so he has to wait for his cooldown. He may not even know he can't use his power which is as bad as it sounds.
>"I think he has a certain cool down not as much as SP but enough that it is at least a second maybe that's just headcanon"
Yeah as Doom said, Time Erase having cooldown isn't a thing and is hilariously contradicted by his fight with Risotto (you can read his Notable Attacks & Techniques to see just how insanely low Diavolo's stamina had to be after that). The headcanon was born from videos of people having no idea how every OP Stands works when it comes to over analyzing them like we do over time.
>"Again can you please gimme an explanation on how you think King Crimson works as it would make it easier to understand some of your points."
Diavolo sees the future, if he's damaged in it he will erase time, at worst he can't react to it, which ca happen but he will have an idea of when he will get damaged so that on its own is very unlikely, and then we have the fact that he can just erase time before his opponent does even anything. Within erased time everything and everyone is unable to affect Diavolo, who is the only one who has time. The lack of time of everything is the reason they can't affect Diavolo the same way having time makes everything happen, stuff having time can be said about pretty much everything, you remove time from that, you remove their ability to affect Diavolo within erased time.
That much makes sense and it's simple, then you have a sh*t ton of stuff that needs to be taken with suspicion or just ignored, like Diavolo making past Bruno see future Bruno, or if some people can react to after a time erase happen how does none in the world doesn't? Or the blood thingy, how does that work but just having your look on something different tells someone nothing about it? How can someone see more blood but not that?
>"(in this situation Jotaro doesn't use his time stop during Diavolo's time erasure and he uses it after it)"
This is wrong, if he were to not use it Diavolo would just win, Jotaro using it is what makes Diavolo keep erasing time. The action of him using time stop did happen, it just did nothing to Diavolo.
>"tbh precog won't matter at that point because all he'd be able to do is use epitaph to see the future but couldn't "erase" anything that quickly"
He doesn't need to as all he has to do is not stop using time erase. For the part after that, same as before, Jotaro just used time stop so he has to wait for his cooldown. He may not even know he can't use his power which is as bad as it sounds.
>"I think he has a certain cool down not as much as SP but enough that it is at least a second maybe that's just headcanon"
Yeah as Doom said, Time Erase having cooldown isn't a thing and is hilariously contradicted by his fight with Risotto (you can read his Notable Attacks & Techniques to see just how insanely low Diavolo's stamina had to be after that). The headcanon was born from videos of people having no idea how every OP Stands works when it comes to over analyzing them like we do over time.
>"Again can you please gimme an explanation on how you think King Crimson works as it would make it easier to understand some of your points."
Diavolo sees the future, if he's damaged in it he will erase time, at worst he can't react to it, which ca happen but he will have an idea of when he will get damaged so that on its own is very unlikely, and then we have the fact that he can just erase time before his opponent does even anything. Within erased time everything and everyone is unable to affect Diavolo, who is the only one who has time. The lack of time of everything is the reason they can't affect Diavolo the same way having time makes everything happen, stuff having time can be said about pretty much everything, you remove time from that, you remove their ability to affect Diavolo within erased time.
That much makes sense and it's simple, then you have a sh*t ton of stuff that needs to be taken with suspicion or just ignored, like Diavolo making past Bruno see future Bruno, or if some people can react to after a time erase happen how does none in the world doesn't? Or the blood thingy, how does that work but just having your look on something different tells someone nothing about it? How can someone see more blood but not that?
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At least it's another win for Diavolo.
Someone close this please
Someone close this please
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I'll add this
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Oh nevermind, someone already done
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I did few minutes ago
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If Jotaro stops time before Diavolo can do much, he still takes the ora ora, even if he erases time.
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It was added already, please don't continue this clusterfrick of a thread
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I don't even know I am allowed to post here anymore. It seems the rationale for DIO beating Diavolo is that DIO survives being donuted because of regen. Well, Jotaro has experience pummeling a Jojo villain after being left mortaly wounded with three first sized holes in him. Bruno survived for some time after being donuted and hit a second time by KC and it doesn't seem he used zippers to do it. When Jotaro gets donuted, he will survive for some time, immediately stop time and ora ora Diavolo causing a mutual kill. That is unless Part 6 Jotaro not so weak as to be unable to do that. I vote inconclusive. This is my first serious post, so I don't know if that matters.
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I'll ask someone to close this
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