Demon's Souls Discussion Thread

[InfiniteDay]

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[SheevShezarrine]

the hypersonic feat was rejected, Dark Souls is stuck at supersonic.

Can you link where/when it was rejected? Early-game Dark Souls is reliant on that calc for its 8-B rating (is a KE feat), so if it's getting its speed downgraded, it's getting its AP downgraded, too

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I think it also qualifies for statistics amplification since they get stronger from it.

On second thought, Accelerated Development works better. Statistics Amplification is most commonly a temporary boost to stats, whereas Accelerated Development is generally a permanent increase that raises the base stats themselves, instead of adding on a boost

 

[Keeweed]

Can you link where/when it was rejected? Early-game Dark Souls is reliant on that calc for its 8-B rating (is a KE feat), so if it's getting its speed downgraded, it's getting its AP downgraded, too

No dark souls also scales to a 8-B spell and they were supposed to be upgraded based off the cursed tree’s 8-B feat. The upgrade was just never applied for some reason.

 

[Keeweed]

On second thought, Accelerated Development works better. Statistics Amplification is most commonly a temporary boost to stats, whereas Accelerated Development is generally a permanent increase that raises the base stats themselves, instead of adding on a boost

Accelerated Development relies on the being itself getting stronger through itself. Like training or naturally becoming stronger. Statistic Amplification can last forever and it’s what we give to characters like doom guy who gains strength from killing demons.

Edit: it appears doom guys statistics amplification was just changed to life force absorption, so the demons should just keep their soul absorption and it should be stated they gain strength from it.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Accelerated Development relies on the being itself getting stronger through itself. Like training or naturally becoming stronger. Statistic Amplification can last forever and it’s what we give to characters like doom guy who gains strength from killing demons.

Edit: it appears doom guys statistics amplification was just changed to life force absorption, so the demons should just keep their soul absorption and it should be stated they gain strength from it.

Ok, I'll do that

Edit: actually I disagree somewhat now that I think on it. Their Soul Absorption is an intrinsic ability, so them getting stronger through it is natural to them

 

[SheevShezarrine]

No dark souls also scales to a 8-B spell and they were supposed to be upgraded based off the cursed tree’s 8-B feat. The upgrade was just never applied for some reason.

Dark Souls 3 would scale to 8-B, and the 8-B spell is a late-game spell used by the Daughters of Izalith (7-C) higher-tier demons (also 7-C and upwards), and the Witch of Izalith (6-C). I scaled that 8-B spell to Black Knights, but honestly with Asylum Demon and comparable (Taurus Demons, Capra Demons, and other lower-tier Demons we can safely assume Black Knights would 1v1) no longer having that 8-B physical feat, 8-B beginning/early game Dark Souls 1 is shaky.

 

[Keeweed]

No the spell I was referring too got 8-B results. Edit: the witches aren’t 7-C, Ceaseless and possibly qualaag are. And they probably should be downgraded due to the heat revisions. I just forgot it’s name. Why would the 8-B feat only scale to Dark Souls 3. The tree is one of the weakest monsters around and weaker demons (weak in comparison to other demons) are fought around the same time. I see no reason the asylum demon just can’t scale to the demons (the stray and fire) you fight as an 8-B in Dark Souls 3

 

[SheevShezarrine]

No the spell I was referring too got 8-B results. Edit: the witches aren’t 7-C, Ceaseless and possibly qualaag are. And they probably should be downgraded due to the heat revisions. I just forgot it’s name. Why would the 8-B feat only scale to Dark Souls 3. The tree is one of the weakest monsters around and weaker demons (weak in comparison to other demons) are fought around the same time. I see no reason the asylum demon just can’t scale to the demons (the stray and fire) you fight as an 8-B in Dark Souls 3

I disagree on the Daughters not being 7-C, I see no reason why they wouldn't scale to their brother and sister, and I don't see how the heat revisions affect them. Fair enough in regards to the Tree tho. All the same, early game Dark Souls should be downgraded to Subsonic (the low end of the Asylum Demon KE feat), since Supersonic projectiles aren't encountered until Sen's Fortress and beyond. Either that or see what results can be yielded from Chosen being able to kinda blitz arrows such as in the archer corridor in the Undead Asylum

 

[Keeweed]

Actually I can agree to the speed downgrade, but that’s for dark souls.
The heat revisions make it that heat feats don’t physically scale to characters, ceaseless’ feat is entirely heat

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Actually I can agree to the speed downgrade, but that’s for dark souls.
The heat revisions make it that heat feats don’t physically scale to characters, ceaseless’ feat is entirely heat

Heat revisions put limitations on when heat feats can scale physically, doesn't bar it outright (source: Dargoo Faust), and also I see no reason why the Daughters' pyromancy/fire sorcery can't scale to Ceaseless' heat feat, maybe not physically sure but their physicals aren't where the lion's share of their power lies

 

[Keeweed]

They should bar 95% of characters from scaling. I think a great example is bees in the real world. Bees in Japan get completely obliterated by wasp, a single hit and they are reduced to pieces due to the strength gap between them them. But bees just gather around wasp and cook them alive with their body heat. So clearly, in the real world, heat doesn’t scale to strength or durability in any way, shape, or form and I have zero clue why this site ever acted like it does.

If it doesn’t scale to the daughters physically then Ceasless and Qualaag would have 8-B durability with a 7-C attack that is technically worthless. Heat’s ap is literally irrelevant now since resisting it revolves entirely around temperature now. For example if you heat a room from 30 degrees to 90 degrees in a second that’s a 9-A feat, but that would have zero effect on anything in the room, it would just be 90 degrees now. So Ceaseless is a very crappy 7-C now since you would only need to resist very low lava like temperatures to be literally invincible to his 7-C attacks.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

If it doesn’t scale to the daughters physically then Ceasless and Qualaag would have 8-B durability with a 7-C attack that is technically worthless. Heat’s ap is literally irrelevant now since resisting it revolves entirely around temperature now. For example if you heat a room from 30 degrees to 90 degrees in a second that’s a 9-A feat, but that would have zero effect on anything in the room, it would just be 90 degrees now. So Ceaseless is a very crappy 7-C now since you would only need to resist very low lava like temperatures to be literally invincible to his 7-C attacks.

Pretty sure realistically speaking the pressure difference and energy release from tripling the room temperature in a split second would cause some pretty destructive reactions, and as for Ceaseless, he'd be pretty effective against 7-C characters without notable heat resistance, and also verses with shared power systems, such as magic, can scale heat feats to other attacks, under the assumption that the energy used to perform the feat can be used in other manners. To quote Dargoo:
"The assumption is now that they don't translate (although physical impacts do transfer heat depending on circumstances, that isn't in the blog but was discussed off-site) unless the verse has a shared power system like Ki/Chakra/Magic/whatever"

 

[Keeweed]

Dark souls doesn’t have that for fire. It makes it painfully clear fire damage is completely separate from physical damage. Ceaseless and the bed of chaos have their resistance set to infinite in game so no fire can harm them at all, but the chosen undead completely stomps the bed of chaos physically.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Wake up babe, Old King Allant just dropped

 

[InfiniteDay]

yes

 

[SheevShezarrine]

What should be his first matchup? I was thinking Gwyn, but he's got resistance to Soul Manip so it would take a few hits for Allant to bring him down, while Gwyn could one-shot. Not exactly impossible, but definitely stacked

 

[Keeweed]

Gwyn’s soul is 4-C while Allant can’t even kill a low 5-B soul (like their souls actually have ap and durability, they are the things doing the feats). Gwyn, and dark souls in general, stomps hard.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Gwyn’s soul is 4-C while Allant can’t even kill a low 5-B soul (like their souls actually have ap and durability, they are the things doing the feats). Gwyn, and dark souls in general, stomps hard.

Fair enough

 

[SheevShezarrine]

What about Bloodborne? Their power comes from eldritch knowledge elevating their existence, having their life force bolstered by blood transfusions from higher beings, or both, their power comes from the mind and body as opposed to the soul afaik

 

[Keeweed]

I was going to ask if demon souls has mind manipulation resistance, but doesn’t matter. Mind manipulation resistance doesn’t give you resistance to the type of madness manipulation Bloodborne has, so they also stomp. And there’s also the problem of them being 5-A vs demon souls 5-B. I personally think 5-B, especially baseline 5-B is a pretty crappy tier to be in.

 

[Keeweed]

If my last comment doesn’t make sense, my autocorrect butchered the last post. Read it again if you need to.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I was going to ask if demon souls has mind manipulation resistance, but doesn’t matter. Mind manipulation resistance doesn’t give you resistance to the type of madness manipulation Bloodborne has, so they also stomp. And there’s also the problem of them being 5-A vs demon souls 5-B. I personally think 5-B, especially baseline 5-B is a pretty crappy tier to be in.

I'm not dumb enough to put them up against any of Bloodborne's Madness users lol, they're the most powerful FromSoft characters hands down. I was thinking about putting them up against the stronger characters that lack it, like Gehrman or Maria, in speed equalized one-shot bouts

 

[Keeweed]

Oh yeah I forgot Maria exist. Though that reminds me, I was actually going to make a crt to give everyone in Bloodborne Madnes manipulation. Pretty much all bosses give you insight upon seeing them, and people are shown to have gone mad from seeing things like the giant crows and stuff (a guy that died from insight is found in a corner surrounded by a crow so they are the only things that could have caused that). I would make that now, but I also want to downgrade Bloodborne’s ap and to do that I would need to replay parts of the game.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Oh yeah I forgot Maria exist. Though that reminds me, I was actually going to make a crt to give everyone in Bloodborne Madnes manipulation. Pretty much all bosses give you insight upon seeing them, and people are shown to have gone mad from seeing things like the giant crows and stuff (a guy that died from insight is found in a corner surrounded by a crow so they are the only things that could have caused that). I would make that now, but I also want to downgrade Bloodborne’s ap and to do that I would need to replay parts of the game.

Perhaps, but I'd say the less eldritch characters/beings should have MM to a less severe extent as beings such as Winter Lanterns and Old Ones, who can basically instakill via Frenzy. And another way to explain Insight gain from non-eldritch bosses could simply be the player's understanding of the world gradually expanding. After all, even if they don't cause you to foam at the mouth and BSOD internally, getting jumped by a tank-sized wendigo or watching Irish John Marston turn into a werewolf would certainly make you re-evaluate your worldview. I don't think the crows had to have caused that, necessarily, no matter how large, they are still carrion birds that could have just swarmed the body after they succumbed from an information overload caused by something else, such as an Amygdala or a Brainsucker

 

[Keeweed]

I mean the regular dude’s head exploded from seeing some giant crows. You would still need to have decent madness resist. Actually I guess I’ll make that CRT later today, won’t be too hard.

 

[Keeweed]

Sorry didn’t read the full comment.

The dude is in a small corner in the middle of nowhere. When you see the Amygdala later on he is nowhere near them and brainsuckers aren’t anywhere close to him either. The only thing that could have gave him insight would be the crows.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Sorry didn’t read the full comment.

The dude is in a small corner in the middle of nowhere. When you see the Amygdala later on he is nowhere near them and brainsuckers aren’t anywhere close to him either. The only thing that could have gave him insight would be the crows.

Crows aren't shown to give Insight anywhere else afaik, unless there's a procedurally-generated giant crow gang boss fight in the Chalice Dungeons, and even then I'd air more toward gameplay mechanics on that one. And there's tons of Amygdalas all over the shop, and it's not as though they can't move around even when not confined to an arena, so the guy could've just seen one passing by. And there's plenty of middle of nowhere areas in Bloodborne, secluded alleys, woodlands, Cainhurst, etc., can you be more specific so we're on the same page?

 

[Keeweed]

It’s in the first staring area (it’s been a while since I’ve played, so I forgot all the names). You know that gate shortcut with the little girl. The one that gives you the music box. Down the latter and across the bridge, in the far corner theirs a guy that died from insight and he’s covered in crows. Nothing except Amygdala’s exist in this area and they are both invisible at this point and nowhere close to the corpse (if I remember correctly).

Though whether the birds caused it or not doesn’t matter too much for the revisions. Bosses absolutely caused insight and they have reasons behind it. At the very least the 5-A bosses absolutely have reasons. Though I’ll talk about that during the revision.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Today we're gonna be talking about the Penetrator!

 

[InfiniteDay]

Kinda sus

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Kinda sus

Penetrator is a sussy baka?

 

[InfiniteDay]

I heard that they are famous in the bed.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Bump

 

[SheevShezarrine]

let's discuss the speed ratings. I was of the mind that they should be a flat Supersonic across the verse and I should reverse course on making anything above 7-C "possibly higher", but upon thinking on it more, I'm not so sure. For example, Dragon God blitzes beginning-of-game Slayer, winding up and throwing a punch before Slayer can properly react.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Bump, let's not let this game die!

I bought the original version of the game so I can be involved, which while yeah it's not the remaster, it's still the same story.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

This is a pretty good set of vids:

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Mr. Cinos finding this necro thread:

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Another thing worth noting is that Garl Vinland's Dark Silver Shield has a 100% magic damage reduction, and increases the user's base magic resistance at the cost of lowering their magic damage. This should give him either Resistance or Invulnerability to magic (this is one of if not the only items in the game capable of fully blocking magic damage, making it clearly a special case in the verse which could qualify it for Invulnerability as opposed to just Resistance), Statistics Amplification, and Self-Statistics Reduction or limited Self-Power Nullification

 

[SheevShezarrine]

SheevShezarrine/Sandbox

vsbattles.fandom.com

I'm back from the cigarette, milk, and lottery ticket store. I bring you a WIP for a revised Slayer of Demons profile