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Demon Slayer (Kimetsu no Yaiba) Discussion Thread #3

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Volume gets filled at 205.

Leaked chapter Spoilers
A shocking and sad chapter. But it seems that the manga unfortunately didn't stick the landing, which is a shame since Gotouge managed to nail the ending of the previous arcs and was skilled in foreshadowing pay offs. The chapter apparently cemented a bunch of plotlines as underdeveloped or outright abandoned. Tanjiro learned about the concept of the 13th form and tried to perform it but never actually managed to do it, Muzan's scars which were pointed by multiple characters to be his weakpoints that must be targeted didn't matter, Muzan's "Black Blood Demon Art" was a throw-away line and he was the least interesting fighter, Nezuko who traveled a large distance for the purpose of saving Tanjiro from danger suffers the most to her character. The most likely outcomes for next chapter are:
  • Nezuko brings Tanjiro back to life through an asspull; this is about what we'd expect from a Shonen.
Haven't been all that enthusiastic for a Kimetsu sequel, but I believe that this would be the best path forward for the series at this point:

  • 1- Tanjiro remain dead for good in front of Nezuko (maybe have a conversation with his ghost).
  • 2- It is discovered that human-eating demons are still around, cue reveal that Muzan barely survived (digging underground with his real body while the meatshield hides him, or regenerating a new body from a piece of flesh he stashed before confronting Kagaya). Being humiliated and weakened for a long time can allow Muzan to develop as a character, and the Blue Spider Lily plotpoint can be explored and even open the door for new and challenging villains.
  • 3- Nezuko becomes the new protagonist, and she along with Zenitsu/Inosuke/Kanao (maybe Senjuro) have 3-4 years to train for an unnerfed Muzan before Sanemi and Giyu die from the Mark.
This would avoid a major asspull, gives Nezuko opportunity to develop as a protagonist instead of just end up anti-climatically crying about Tanjiro and hugging him, and allow for a payoff for the underdeveloped and seemingly abandoned plot points. It would also make this page very meaningful.

There is more to see about the epilogue before the final judgement about the series, but the ending was almost certainly not as good as the journey, especially with the final fight being largely anti-climactic with boring choreography.
 
@ShadowWhoWalks

Leaked Chapter Spoilers
I mean, he did do the 13th Form, he managed to complete it several times, he just never did it as good as Yoriichi, he did a final version of the complete 13th Form rush against Muzan right before he pinned him against the wall, he had help from Inosuke and Zenitsu, the two other main characters to complete it tho since he was severely weakened, and I think they did go for the weak points on his body, it's just hard to tell in this manga since it's so complex with it's breath forms, so that is an issue with it, but yeah, the weak points being exposed didn't really get expanded on as much as I wanted. As for the final fight, I really did like a lot of it, everyone pushing themselves to the absolute brink to stop Muzan was amazing, I don't think it was supposed to be a bunch of skilled fighters fighting this insane monster, it was more like a bunch of "desperate" fighters doing everything they can to take Muzan down. I really like that kind of fight, everyone going past their limits and finally succeeding, but a lot of them still lose their lives. It feels like a proper ending and I can't wait for it in the Anime where it will down doubt look amazing. As for Tanjirou, I really don't want him to die, so I hope he does get saved by Nezuko, I don't care if anyone calls it bad writing, it's ok sometimes to let the good guys live, I like happy endings, I don't care if they're cliche. Also having Muzan still be alive or any other demons being alive would be a huge disservice to everything that has happened, like the whole point was that the only reason they could defeat Muzan was that everything they had done tonight led them there, and that was built up and foreshadowed for like 63 Chapters, so I don't know what you expected here. Overall I enjoyed it and I think it was a very good final fight and arc, were their flaws, yeah, but I still think there is a lot more good than bad.
 
The manga needs to end here, not a sequel and surely not Muzan surviving. People complain when mangas have cliche good end endings but they cant accept bitter sweet endings either. This ending is good, things not always go the way you want, and sometimes there must be sacrifices. They had a desperate fight to the dead, with all parties been forced to their absolute limit, so the way it ended makes sense and i like it. Yes, Muzan could have been better in his fighting style but that alone doesnt make the fight bad, and as for Tamayo's nerfing him, it was necesary as no one was as strong a Yoriichi or even close to him (even Kokushibo was almost one shotted by an old and weakened Yoriichi).

Tanjirou's goal has been acomplished, Muzan is dead and Nezuko is a human again. I can understand that the ending wasnt as some people might have expected, but a sequel is NOT the best path forward, it would be ******** in everything that has happened in this past 200 chapters. I want to talk more about Tanjirou in detail, but i dont know how to make that spoiler tag here.
 
Leaked Chapter Spoilers
I'll wait until we get the ending to give my opinions on the Tanjiro situation seeing as nothing is set in stone yet. Honestly, it's damned if you do, damned if you don't. People will hate it if Tanjiro dies, people will hate it if he comes back. You cannot please everyone. However, I find it suspicious that Nezuko has had no real role here and so I feel that her role may be to use her healing powers to bring her brother back.
As for the fight, I enjoyed it. As Aubin said, it was less a fight of skill and more a pure power struggle. The Demon Slayers had to defeat this desparate rampaging beast by holding him to dawn. Issue being is that his attacks are both fast and powerful and he is just flat out impossible to take down any other way. The constant tension here and everyone utlizing everything they had just to keep Muzan there until daybreak was what made that fight for me.

I've seen people shit on Muzan as a final villain and I may be in the minority here, but I find Muzan to be extremely well written. Muzan is not the deepest villain around, he is pure evil. This reminds me of way early on in the series where Tanjiro calls Muzan a "True Demon". He's an irredeemable monster who caused nothing but pain and destruction due to his own fear of death. His character didn't come from complexity, but his actions. What his action did to others, how he manipulated the feelings and weaknesses of others to turn them into man-eating demons. Muzan himself is nothing more than a purely evil entity who doesn't need a backstory to explain everything he does. He's evil and he's caused this suffering for both humans and demons. His impact is what sells him as a villain, his actions are what sells him as a villain, not a complex personality. At least that's how I feel. Muzan was never meant to be this overly complex villain, he's simple and to the point and that's all that's needed. Not all villains need to be tragic or have these complex motives, sometimes they can just be simple antagonists and still work perfectly fine. That's how I feel about Muzan, he's simple, yet effective.
 
@Dragonmasterxyz

Couldn't have said it better

Also for those who say Tanjirou never completed the 13th Form, he absolutely did, the 13th Form is the 12 previous forms used in succession, Tanjirou literally did this for the entire fight with Muzan, he spammed all of the forms of the Breath of the Sun in succession, Tanjirou literally says he managed to do it, he just didn't do it as great as Yoriichi, in the end before he pinned Muzan down he did the 13th Form with help from Inosuke and Zenitsu, they jumped in whenever he faltered, in general all the Demon Slayers and everyone else working together managed to match and surpass Yoriichi, at least in my opinion
 
I respect your opinions, and don't claim that they are less valid than mine; I am just more inclined to avoid wasted potential in plot points... With the exception of the claim that the 13th form was performed correctly or that an inferior version to Yoriichi was used; Tanjiro simply didn't do it corectly (there was an attempt though). Either this, we have to consider arbitrary and sloppy repetition of the forms as "the 13th form", instead of it being something practical Yoriichi taught Sumiyoshi to target and exploit Muzan's weak points. This is like Zenitsu using Thunderclap & Flash -> Godspeed -> Flaming Thunder God at three random demons in succession, and then calling this the 8th form; pointless and accomplishes nothing but can superficially sound cool.

Let's look at the timeline:

  • Tanjiro wakes up with tumor, says he'll evade Muzan's attacks and "slice at Muzan's hearts and brains until dawn", and performs a some DotF forms after getting hit, and says he'll do the full thing next. He says the twelve forms are connected by Waltz and Flame Waltz but we later see that he doesn't do a cycle in order. (All attacks seemingly deflected by Muzan)
  • Tanjiro connects six forms, but says that his attacks are being pushed back, and that his blade isn't reaching Muzan's torso. Tanjiro's stamina is being pushed to its limit, and Muzan says that the accuracy of Tanjiro's techniques has decreases and that his red blade will son return to normal.
  • Tanjiro suddenly spits blood and almost gets hit, but Muzan misses and notices that he is getting slower due to rapid aging. Tanjiro manages to connect all twelve forms and says he'll repeat it till dawn. (Muzan's arm was sliced, but seemingly not his torso) [Crow says 59 minutes are until dawn. It was 63 minutes before Zenitsu/Inosuke/Kanao came to help the Hashira]
  • Tanjiro gets pushed back by Muzan, and he says "So I can't just connect my techniques alone. I have to aim for the hearts and brains precisely." He tries to enter the See-Through World but collapses, and gets saved by Obanai. Tanjiro and Obanai are barely holding on, but then Muzan's scars appear, and Tanjiro says: "So these wounds are Muzan's weak spots!! Yoriichi-san is guiding us...!!"
  • Tanjiro says that Muzan is suppressing him with his attacks, and that he can't enter the See-Through World, but he can still aim for the weak spots. Tanjiro thinks of giving the Talismans to Iguro so he can share vision with the snake, but Crow says 40 minutes until dawn and Muzan tries to run away. Muzan gets stabbed through the neck by Obanai and Tanjiro hits him with a technique, but Muzan hits them both and Tanjiro spits blood. Tanjiro gives the talisman to Obanai so he can fight better, and Muzan is shocked he is running out of stamina.
  • Muzan's arm bloats in order to explode and split, and Tanjiro tells Obanai that they need to try slicing Muzan's twelve spots in one go in order to stop him. 3rd and 4th effect happens to Muzan. Muzan does his shockwave Demon Blood Art, and Tanjiro and the crows are incapitated.
  • Inosuke and Zenitsu confront Muzan. Tanjiro recovers and helps Zenitsu and Inosuke with DotF techniques, Tanjiro does the twelve techniques (he repeats Solar Halo Dragon Dance in the same cycle though, and failed in his attempt to repeat Scorching Flame Haze), and stabs Muzan's chest mouth and says that he can't use more techniques. (Tanjiro seemingly does not land a strike on Muzan's torso, but mostly deflects his tentacles to save Inosuke/Zenitsu or push Muzan back)
It seems that the plot wouldn't change in any meaningful way if we cut out the following plotpoints: "the 13th form", and "Muzan's scars being his weakpoints". Tanjiro can simply try to deflect Muzan's tentacles by copying Yoriichi's original movements in the inherited memory.

It is not like doing a cycle gives Tanjiro extra stamina or something; at one point it is like he was doing cycles purely for symbolic rather than practical reasons, because he can't actually land consecutive hits on Muzan's torso or head (let alone accurately target his "weak points").
 
Using the 13 Form and hitting all of Muzan's weakpoints isnt even necessary to begin with, its just a form of slowing him down, it wont kill him. You are overestimating Tanjirou, he is far from being as good as Yorrichi, the very same Tanjirou recognized that. Continue the fight just for this is beyond unnecesary and it would truly be anti-climatic, also, i dont want fake endings like NNT did.

Other thing you have misunderstood, Yorrichi didnt "taught" the Breath of the Sun to Sumiyoshi, he simply showed it to him without expecting anything from him. Yoriichi didnt meant for the Kamado Family to eventually fight Muzan.

I get you expected more of the fight, but whats done is done, continuing at this point would be anything but good.
 
Unofficial Translations: https://ww3.demonslayermanga.com/chapter/demon-slayer-kimetsu-no-yaiba-chapter-200/

Just to be safe for those who want official translations
So, Gyomei, Iguro, and Mitsuri are dead, Sanemi actually looks like he's gonna live, I didn't think he would based off the spoilers, it's not his time yet, the ending of this chapter leaves it off in a manner that makes me think that it's likely Tanjirou will actually survive, it leaves it off in a way that makes it seem like he'll be saved eventually, however we don't see his full face either at this point, so there's even a chance Muzan possessed him, but I hope that's not the case
 
Dayum. So I was right about it being a new-gen Akame ga Kill.


The mangaka is merciless. The only Pillars left are Sanemi and Giyu...
 
Well, Tengen is also alive.

As for Tanjirou, i believe he will start breathing again, say his goodbye to Nezuko and kick the bucket. I said it before, Zenitsu's words were a HUGE deathflag.
 
Tengen is not a Pillar anymore sadly

The current candidates for Pillars are Kanao, Zenitsu, Tanjiro and Inosuke... But it feels like, like you've said, Tanjiro is going to kick the bucket. I don't think Inosuke and Zenitsu will die.

Though, Iguro and Mitsuri were not shown to be dead yet. Maybe they are going to be treated, but hey, it all depends on mangaka
 
Zenitsu is likely going to eventually obtain a family after this (hoping for Nezuko), but i wonder what Inosuke will do when demon slayer corps disbands.
 
I dunno, like I said, I feel that Nezuko has more of a purpose to running all the way there than just seeing her brother die. I feel like she'll use some healing powers to save him. At least that's my hope. There is also the whole, Family from beyond keeping you in the real world.
 
My guess is if Tanjirou lives, he'll be like his dad, he'll have a shortened lifespan and be sick, but he'll do as all the males in the Kamado family do and have lots of kids, definitely with Kanao

I really do hope he lives
 
Yeah, I'll happily be in the minority and say that while an ending may be well written, it =/= I will instantly like it compared to an asspull ending due to how well it resonates with me. To be quite blunt, Tanjiro dying here would in fact spoil my enjoyment of the series compared to him living. Is it selfish and petty that my wants for the ending did not come true? Sure is, but I also really couldn't give two ***** as it's simply how I as a person react and feel about certain things. Of course I won't literally riot and be a shitty fan, it's just that the ending would be extremely sour instead of bittersweet for me despite me still adoring this series. It's just how I am, hence why I still adore Fairy Tail despite its terrible writing at times.
 
@Dragonmaster

Preaching the truth my friend, couldn't agree more

Is it so unnatural to hope for a happy ending at the end of the day?
 
Not really, but Gotouge isnt Mashima, so people are skeptical.

It would be sad if Tanjirou died, but i wouldnt hate that ending. Even if Tanjirou were to survive he would probably die soon because of the curse of the mark. Actually, i think Kanao/Inosuke/Zenitsu never awakened it because Gotouge wanted them to live a full life unlike the pillars.
 
I think a nice compromise is that Tanjirou lives, but has a shortened lifespan like his father
 
At this point there is absolutely no reason to kill him. He didn't even get his closure yet. I think he'll talk to Yoriichi, his family and then come back with some kind of "It's not your time" or "you deserve to be happy" type of message
 
He could start breathing again, see Nezuko and say goodbye to her, Giyuu and the others and die. He would have achieved his goal of saving Nezuko and killing Muzan, and he would have his closure. Killing him is certainly posible, but it will depend on how merciful Gotouge will be with poor Tanjirou.

That which you just mentioned already happened with Sanemi, and i have my doubts with Gotouge pulling the same formyla again. The option of Nezuko somehow healing him seems more likely.
 
All the promotional stuff on Shonen Jump keep saying "Is Muzan really defeated?"

Theory, he could be possessing Tanjirou now and Tanjirou will have to end his own life or Nezuko will have have to finally end him to kill Muzan once and for all

I could honestly see that happen
 
Promotional material for 199 did ask whether Muzan was really defeated, but promotional material for 200 call it the conclusion of the battle, and the preview for 201 reads: "With the figh finished, what's going to happen to the survivors?".

Don't really like the sun-immune possessed Tanjiro theory [7DS flashbacks] (also, there are also more qualified people to wield a sword and execute him than human Nezuko, so traumatizing her by making her do it would be cheap forced drama). There are enough unresolved plotpoints to allow a sequel and there are plausible ways for Muzan to survive, but whether that happens is 50/50 for me with no announcement that this is the "final arc" unlike with other popular series. A Part 2 would be the ideal situation for Shueisha since they finally got a series that sells as well as One Piece, and they have been struggling to get new serieses to succeed, so at least they did their best to convince the author to make it happen.

Oh boy, I have plenty of revisions in mind. Regardless of what happens next, we won't get a big fight soon, so we should start thinking about that big CRT.

Probably the most important revision is... upgrading Doma to 8-A+ via Multipliers. He was weakened and crumbling when creating the ice statue, and he also can casually create five clones which he states to be as powerful as him, and then proceeded to leave to go fight Hashira. The 6x multiplier itself almost but doesn't reach the 8-A arithmetic average, but there is consensus on a current + symbol revision to allow upscaling.

Also, 481 replies in the thread, so a new one should be created before the 500 comment limit.
 
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