Demon King vs. Demon King (Anos Voldigoad vs. Dracula Tepes)

[GoldExPoints]

In the borderline Sisyphean quest to find a non-smurf, non-stomp matchup for Anos, I've decided to try taking a swing. Apologies in advance if it is a stomp...
Dracula's Curse to Portrait of Ruin Dracula and Silver Sea Anos are used.
Speed is equalized.
Location is Dracula's Castle, if that's unfair then I can switch it over to Central Park as usual.
Starting distance is 10 meters.
SBA otherwise.

What is a man?:
I've no intention of discussing philosophy:
MY FRIENDS ARE MY POWER (Incon):

 

[Stillwinston]

Following

 

[WilederToster46]

I’ll be watching

 

[noxx]

wow, didnt know that dracula's profile is that busted

 

[Ballsdeep69]

Does Anos have any counter to plot hax?

 

[Orioreeem]

Simple answer: Power null that can null 99 layers of concept hax plus a bunch more stuff.

 

[Theglassman12]

The plot hax is passive so you're not gonna get through the entire narrative being rewritten for you to lose. On top of power mimicry and reactive evolution that lets Dracula adapt to anything on the fly and copies his foes' powers on contact.

 

[Reploidnoridomix]

both have passive skill that can kill each other...this will be a interesting fight

 

[Rabbit2002]

following

 

[Stillwinston]

wow, didnt know that dracula's profile is that busted

Losing to the belmonts all the time made him hit the gym lol, my boi Drac be swole now

 

[Orioreeem]

The plot hax is passive so you're not gonna get through the entire narrative being rewritten for you to lose. On top of power mimicry and reactive evolution that lets Dracula adapt to anything on the fly and copies his foes' powers on contact.

Anos eye's work on passives as well

 

[Fixxed]

He can erase/effect NEP 2???

Sure arnos will get effect by plot, but his root dont. And he can attack and think from his root

So the dracula can bypass 99 above bassline conceptual manipulation???

 

[Theglassman12]

@Orioreeem prove it works on plot manipulation that destabilizes your power.

@Fixxed doesn’t really matter cause the plot itself is already written for him to lose, he needs to get through that first which I don’t see him having any feats of doing whatsoever.

he evolves his resistance to be capable of resisting Anos’ hax and copies his powers perfectly.

 

[Arkenis]

Not to digress but Dracula's page definitely needs an update on its formatting. its hard to tell things apart and such. Anyway Dracula has plot manipulation but idk how it works can I get a summary?

 

[Orioreeem]

Plot manipulation ain't anything special. It's all about potency of an ability.

 

[Dereck03]

Pretty much MEoCD can deal with such stuffs

This magic eye can make events that will certainly happen and/or already happened never happen, by destroying reason and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning. In other words, as one possible use of this magic eye, Anos can destroy a power after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of the power and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with; e.g. Destroyed Eques' <Beld Rase Femblem>, which induces an inescapable predetermined fate that affects the target even if they go back to the past before the creation of the world and use their power, after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of <Beld Rase Femblem> and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with

Because if reality tries to oppose the nature of this magic eye, this magic eye will create a logical contradiction. If something opposes to this eye as the absolute truth, it is enough for this eye to take it as contradictory and create a contradiction causing the nature of this magic eye to appear and destroy such power. It is said that both this magic eye and venuzdonoa do not follow the logic of the whole verse so trying to assume that manipulating the plot is enough to overpower Venuz or MEoCD is not enough. Based on what glassman said, the plot trying to destabilize Anos' power, and already written for him to lose, is practically the same as Eques did of drawing an inescapable destiny which destabilized Anos' powers by limiting him to not being able to take any actions that no matter what Anos did he could not escape and reality would warp as soon as Anos took an action leading Anos to lose. And even simpler, a simple power that wants to oppose Anos, this magic eye will take it as a contradiction and unilaterally both the power and the user will be destroyed.

Of course, I'm not saying that Anos resists Plot Manip, I'm simply saying that even that won't be enough to contradict the contradictory logical nature of MEoCD that will unilaterally destroy anything that tries to oppose Anos.

And here I see NLF, in the same case as Rimuru RE, it is a FALACY to assume that Dracula can adapt or copy Anos' haxes when he doesn't even have feats of anywhere near the power needed to resist it.

 

[Stillwinston]

Not to digress but Dracula's page definitely needs an update on its formatting. its hard to tell things apart and such. Anyway Dracula has plot manipulation but idk how it works can I get a summary?

Its passive, basically rewrites the narrative of the fight so that Chaos and its forces triumph against those who stand before it

 

[Arkenis]

Its passive, basically rewrites the narrative of the fight so that Chaos and its forces triumph against those who stand before it

Layers for it?

 

[Regidian]

Layers for it?

Why the need of layer when anos doesn't resist it?

Pretty much MEoCD can deal with such stuffs

Because if reality tries to oppose the nature of this magic eye, this magic eye will create a logical contradiction. If something opposes to this eye as the absolute truth, it is enough for this eye to take it as contradictory and create a contradiction causing the nature of this magic eye to appear and destroy such power. It is said that both this magic eye and venuzdonoa do not follow the logic of the whole verse so trying to assume that manipulating the plot is enough to overpower Venuz or MEoCD is not enough. Based on what glassman said, the plot trying to destabilize Anos' power, and already written for him to lose, is practically the same as Eques did of drawing an inescapable destiny which destabilized Anos' powers by limiting him to not being able to take any actions that no matter what Anos did he could not escape and reality would warp as soon as Anos took an action leading Anos to lose. And even simpler, a simple power that wants to oppose Anos, this magic eye will take it as a contradiction and unilaterally both the power and the user will be destroyed.

Of course, I'm not saying that Anos resists Plot Manip, I'm simply saying that even that won't be enough to contradict the contradictory logical nature of MEoCD that will unilaterally destroy anything that tries to oppose Anos.

And here I see NLF, in the same case as Rimuru RE, it is a FALACY to assume that Dracula can adapt or copy Anos' haxes when he doesn't even have feats of anywhere near the power needed to resist it.

Reality=/=narrative so it doesn't really help.

 

[Orioreeem]

Anos can null it if he doesn't have anywhere near enough layers

 

[Regidian]

Anos can null it if he doesn't have anywhere near enough layers

Anos never have null plot manip, you need to show that before

 

[Orioreeem]

He pretty much nulled fate hax that iirc had the same properties as said plot hax, and can null 99 layers of concept hax. Really don't see why the same can't happen here. Fate and plot are similar after all, it's just matter of perspective.

 

[Dereck03]

Anos never have null plot manip, you need to show that before

Practically the same thing Dracula did is the same thing Eques does and I already explained it according to what glassman said, and also how Dracula can pass over MEoCD logical contradiction? Neither the logic that is above reality in the verse can be against MEoCD. Even more so when the plot manipulation page says that Plot Manipulation governs reality and the logic/reason in the verse is above reality and can destroy reality and venuzdonoa and MEoCD are above logic, so there is no basis that Plot Manip can bypass MEoCD logical contradiction.

 

[Regidian]

He pretty much nulled fate hax that iirc had the same properties as said plot hax, and can null 99 layers of concept hax. Really don't see why the same can't happen here. Fate and plot are similar after all, it's just matter of perspective.

Not really, fate is changing something from within the reality of the world and plot is changing from it's narrative. Anyways nulling fate and concept doesn't allow to null plot.

 

[Dereck03]

Not really, fate is changing something from within the reality of the world and plot is changing from it's narrative. Anyways nulling fate and concept doesn't allow to null plot.

Dracula and Eques did practically if not the same thing. The only difference is that one is listed with Plot Manip and the other with Fate Hax which works on Aca type 4.

 

[Regidian]

Practically the same thing Dracula did is the same thing Eques does and I already explained it according to what glassman said, and also how Dracula can pass over MEoCD logical contradiction? Neither the logic that is above reality in the verse can be against MEoCD. Even more so when the plot manipulation page says that Plot Manipulation governs reality and the logic/reason in the verse is above reality and can destroy reality and venuzdonoa and MEoCD are above logic, so there is no basis that Plot Manip can bypass MEoCD logical contradiction.

Except it's not the same one more time not bevause she does something equivalent with her power to a lesser extent and invoking an other power that he would be able to the same to dracula

Plot is what make something logic in a narrative ans what make it reality. Destroying reality have nothing to do with plot as plot doesn't need reality.

 

[Regidian]

Dracula and Eques did practically if not the same thing. The only difference is that one is listed with Plot Manip and the other with Fate Hax which works on Aca type 4.

So it's not the same, changing a plot and fate is not the same juste because it have the same terminaison and working on aca type 4 is not an argument....

 

[Orioreeem]

Furthermore, regarding No-Limits Fallacies: Users can not simply be assumed to bring out any imaginable effect. They are assumed to be limited in both applications and scale to what they demonstrated or can be reasoned to be capable based on reliable statements
From plot manipulation page
We even had thread about deleting plot manipulation tho it was kept but everyone really agreed that it ain't anything special
People just like to wank the ability because "narrative"

 

[Dereck03]

Except it's not the same one more time not bevause she does something equivalent with her power to a lesser extent and invoking an other power that he would be able to the same.

Plot is what make something logic in a narrative.

There is not much basis for what you just said, Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can archieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with Reality Warping.


In MG reality itself is governed by the logic that exists in the verse, even Graham who can manipulate reality at a higher level than Normal Reality Warping is useless against logic. Logic rules and govern over reality and is able to change the reality of the verse as well as the logic itself and destroy it in the same way that plot works, Venuz and MEoCD are outside and beyond of that logic, it is not governed by the logic who in turn governs reality in the same way that Plot does, it can destroy the logic, affect it, change it. Of course, the same logic that exists in MG is not the same logic that exists in any other verse. Logic in MG is above reality, concepts, laws and both Venuz and MEoCD are beyond and unbound the logic.

So it's not the same, changing a plot and fate is not the same juste because it have the same terminaison and working on aca type 4 is not an argument....

No, going by the description and feats, the same thing dracula did is what Eques did.

And even you doesn't explain how it can pass over MEoCD logical contradciction.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Pretty darn sure we don't somehow equalize or assume Plot Manip = Fate manip. Even though I believe they are the same in what they do, you should probably make a thread for it.

 

[Dereck03]

Pretty darn sure we don't somehow equalize or assume Plot Manip = Fate manip. Even though I believe they are the same in what they do, you should probably make a thread for it.

Let me be clear that I am not saying that plot=Fate, I am simply saying that the same reason why Dracula has Plot is the same reason for Eques, but the latter has fate instead of plot.

 

[Regidian]

There is not much basis for what you just said, Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can archieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with Reality Warping.


In MG reality itself is governed by the logic that exists in the verse, even Graham who can manipulate reality at a higher level than Normal Reality Warping is useless against logic. Logic rules and govern over reality and is able to change the reality of the verse as well as the logic itself and destroy it in the same way that plot works, Venuz and MEoCD are outside and beyond of that logic, it is not governed by the logic who in turn governs reality in the same way that Plot does, it can destroy the logic, affect it, change it. Of course, the same logic that exists in MG is not the same logic that exists in any other verse.

No, going by the description and feats, the same thing dracula did is what Eques did.

And even you doesn't explain how it can pass over MEoCD logical contradciction.

Except if you make a thread about it being equal. It not change anything.

It's still fate manip, one more time they did the same thing with not the same power. Not because two guy destroy a house with different power that it will be equivalent.

Because it have 0 reason tho

 

[Orioreeem]

Plot is what make something logic in a narrative

You just equated narrative to logic, and well Anos is quite well known for making it his bitch

 

[Regidian]

Let me be clear that I am not saying that plot=Fate, I am simply saying that the same reason why Dracula has Plot is the same reason for Eques, but the latter has fate instead of plot.

Except not really one more, one have doing it by manipulating fate the other by manipulating narrative. Make a crt to make the two feat equivalent if you want otherwise not change a thing

 

[Rikimarox2]

Which people are not gonna accept. Hell, every plot manip is just glorified fate manip. Take most plot manipulators that manipulate the narrative, and compare them to fate manipulators, and you'd realize that the effects are pretty much identical. It's not just the same for Dracula and Eques, but for most users and the wiki itself doesn't accept resisting either of them will let you resist the other, even if the effects are identical.

That is why you should just make a thread for it, if you want to change that.

 

[Regidian]

You just equated narrative to logic, and well Anos is quite well known for making it his bitch

I dont' have equated? I tell that narative is what make logic how, it's equating when i tell narrative is supperior

 

[Regidian]

Which people are not gonna accept. Hell, every plot manip is just glorified fate manip. Take most plot manipulators that manipulate the narrative, and compare them to fate manipulators, and you'd realize that the effects are pretty much identical. It's not just the same for Dracula and Eques, but for most users and the wiki itself doesn't accept resisting either of them will let you resist the other, even if the effects are identical.

That is why you should just make a thread for it, if you want to change that.

I mean we have many power were effect are mostly identical but different in what they affect really. If you change plot you obligatory change fate, but if you change fate you not really change plot, because that can be just a part of the plot of the world.

 

[Orioreeem]

I mean we have many power were effect are mostly identical but different in what they affect really. If you change plot you obligatory change fate, but if you change fate you not really change plot, because that can be just a part of the plot of the world.

and someone can make manipulate fate to make someone change the plot.

 

[Dereck03]

Except if you make a thread about it being equal. It not change anything.

It's still fate manip, one more time they did the same thing with not the same power. Not because two guy destroy a house with different power that it will be equivalent.

Because it have 0 reason tho

Except not really one more, one have doing it by manipulating fate the other by manipulating narrative. Make a crt to make the two feat equivalent if you want otherwise not change a thing

I will surely make a thread to make it Plot and Fate. But not right now as Anos is currently gaining significant upgrades and I don't want to create more CRTs for the time being.

Oh, and you simply can't say anything about what I just pointed out because it is true.

Plot Manipulation is the ability to control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can archieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with Reality Warping.


In MG reality itself is governed by the logic that exists in the verse, even Graham who can manipulate reality at a higher level than Normal Reality Warping is useless against logic. Logic rules and govern over reality and is able to change the reality of the verse as well as the logic itself and destroy it in the same way that plot works, Venuz and MEoCD are outside and beyond of that logic, it is not governed by the logic who in turn governs reality in the same way that Plot does, it can destroy the logic, affect it, change it. Of course, the same logic that exists in MG is not the same logic that exists in any other verse. Logic in MG is above reality, concepts, laws and both Venuz and MEoCD are beyond and unbound the logic.

Logic in MG governs and manipulates reality in the same way that plot does, it can destroy it, affect it, change it, alter it as if it were nothing. Venuz and MEoCD are above logic and are unboud of it, so much so that it can destroy logic, affect it, manipulate it, alter it, ETC.

 

[Orioreeem]

I dont' have equated? I tell that narative is what make logic how, it's equating when i tell narrative is supperior

How is it equating when you say that narrative is superior to logic? The way you wrote your santance you clearly equated them. Heck, Why would it be superior in the first place?