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Demon King Daimao downgrade ig

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Delta333 said:
?
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If you wonder why did I give this "Aggressive" answer, then I will simply suggest you to re-read what they said. Not only they were referring to their agreement on DontTalkDT, they were also referring to the people that's here but has zero knowledge over the series, and just performing non-relevant&foreign language talk to get this thread derailed. 60% of people are here for the utmost unnecessary "Goku (or any character that's above the ongoing justifications on this thread) solos now" shit now, you must be capable of seeing that.

As they said, people with actual knowledge over the Series' RAW & has good Japanese Translation instead of copy-pasting it in MT sites should talk here instead of shitposting people.
 
NothingToDebateWith said:
If you wonder why did I give this "Aggressive" answer, then I will simply suggest you to re-read what they said. Not only they were referring to their agreement on DontTalkDT, they were also referring to the people that's here but has zero knowledge over the series, and just performing non-relevant&foreign language talk to get this thread derailed. 60% of people are here for the utmost unnecessary "goku vs all" things now, you must be capable of seeing that.

As they said, people with actual knowledge over the Series' RAW & has good Japanese Translation instead of copy-pasting it in MT sites should talk here instead of shitposting people.
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I quoted him before his editting,and referring to people who keep spamming "goku vs all" is not a reason to disagree with this thread duh,plus using scans from people in different site is not wrong in this forum (for now there is no rule to ban it) so what is the point to disagree with everything with such reason?
 
Sus said:
Stop derailing and @NothingToDebateWith stop being aggressive

We don't want the thread to just die, do we?
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Alright then. Apologies, I possibly breached the line for a reason such as that.

But,
Delta333 said:
I quoted him before his editting,and referring to people who keep spamming "goku vs all" is not a reason to disagree with this thread duh,plus using scans from people in different site is not wrong in this forum (for now there is no rule to ban it) so what is the point to disagree with everything with such reason?
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That "different site" in question is known with it's tendency to downgrade stuff for their sake and spiting on characters, that's why we should do the job of researching instead of completely trusting in them.
 
NothingToDebateWith said:
That "different site" in question is known with it's tendency to downgrade stuff for their sake, that's why we should do the job of researching instead of completely trusting in them.
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That's not what's happening, tho. Genuine scans are brought up here that severely downgrade the verse, adding context and essentially showing that there are quite a lot of flowery things used in the current justifications.
 
NothingToDebateWith said:
That "different site" in question is known with it's tendency to downgrade stuff for their sake, that's why we should do the job of researching instead of completely trusting in them.
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If that's your problem then there is nothing to worry because OP said he has already read Ichiban (and Darksmash has read final act,where most of cosmology stuff come from),beside that Featherine vs LT and Ichiban are not related to each other,you can't bring one fault from one forum to prove everything there is wrong,even this site is no different
 
Just asking, in case the fan translation and the official translation conflict and the raws are unavailable which one would be given priority?
 
Let's wait for DontTalk. It could take a while since he will be busy IRL for at least a week.

Also, don't derail in the meantime.
 
Okay, first to debunk the notion of the afterlife being in some way infinitely "transcendent" over the normal universe:

We have a device that can travel between dimensions being used to go to the afterlife:
But once you put the empress into cold sleep, you need to enter the world of the afterlife using the Robe of the Fire Rat.”
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I have not seen a rule in wiki standards that one cannot go to a higher dimensional world with a device. It's my fault if it is, but I'm pretty sure it's not.
Shuradou said:
Next, we have the afterlife being called finite on multiple occasions
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I never understood what this word debunked
Shuradou said:
Oh, it's also called a planet... multiple times...:
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In this wiki, I have not seen anyone who says that there are infinite universes in the first layer of the next life, or that it is the size of the universe. he already explains on the blog that the first layer is finite and its size is the only problem, it doesn't change anything that the first layer of the afterlife as space is finite and the size of a planet does not change anything
Shuradou said:
-Act 13, chapter 3.

Now, for some context to this (and oh boy, is there a lot of it, as this is the most misunderstood part since it needs someone to actually read the last 2 acts to understand it):

A note before I start - in one translation the "hierarchy" between stories was usually referred to with terms such as storification and story density so I'll be using them for easier notation (to understand things easier).

Okay, to being:

The story density in the novel refers to the heavy and light nature of the story, not with conferring some different level of power with a reality > fiction or infinite gaps:
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i couldn't help thinking that you didn't read your own quote again.in your quote, they are already telling the difference between afterlife and what you call the real world. the question arises whether the world is a fiction, and scientists define it as an outside look at the way to solve it. so what's the point of looking from the outside?if the world is fiction, no one inside fiction can prove that it is fiction, so they say that it is necessary to look from the outside, this outside look is contextually, of course, not to go out of space. scientists already solve it in the afterlife when they come they go "the world was fiction, but on the inside Real to the outsider, to the inside of gerecek fiction" here you gerecek they're talking about literally the size of the top and bottom of fiction the world of fiction for the afterlife, but that in itself is true, they talk about the afterlife and that there's nothing under it literally dream with lyrics that you wrote the words of the scientists mentioned're not.
Who knows. But to me, you didn’t seem like someone who never did anything.” Akuto smiled. “And even if this world was created by the Law of Identity, we all have our own wills. If our wills were strong enough, do you think we managed to influence this world?”
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-Act 12, chapter 5.

“A strong will, huh? Even if we’re nothing but fictional characters?” “Yes. I’m sure we set something large in motion. If I don’t believe that, there’s no reason to be here right now.” “Setting something in motion with a strong will, hm?”
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-Act 12, chapter 5.

The stories are capable of fighting the one that created them, or in other words, the one that should supposedly be in a layer infinitely transcended to them:
I felt like I’d seen the core essence of stories. This was a story written to destroy stories, and it was clear that the stories were fighting back. Looking back, there had been many obstacles in my way up until this point, but all of them were caused by the stories controlling my memories and actions. This goes for how books sell, too.
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-Act 13, chapter 5.

The stories created by Akuto and gods are capable of fighting each other even though there should have been multiple layers of "fictional transcendence" between them:
On the other hand, the stories created by the extra-universal gods were intended to destroy his desires. Also, its outer surface as a story was hidden, so it was shown as if it were the truth. That too was a final shape of a story.
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-Act 13, chapter 4.

I'll bring this part up again in the Extra Universal Gods & Akuto section.

Next, these quotes imply that there the time passage between universe flows the same (time passes the same across every universe) further negating the notion of temporal/causal or reality > fiction hierarchy existing between them (if everything else wasn't already enough):
I am aware it is cruel. That cruelty can be felt through the story. You will simply be starting over from the beginning. In the next instant, you will be in an Empty Universe, followed by a Formless Universe, and then it will shift to a Gravity Universe. That will likely take tens of thousands of years.”
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here he is worried about the development of stories, because as they develop, he can reach more and more fiction. akuto was also like the extra universal gods at first, but he later changed. There is no problem that the extra universal gods can reach higher fictions.

“Please wait as I activate my memories. …Sorry, but the viscosity of my oil has increased. Can you bring me an oil can?”
She sat up in her futon, took the oil can, and chugged it like a can of cola.
“It would be too much of a pain to give the exact number, but it has been over a thousand years, Akuto-san.”
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-Act 13, chapter 6.

And if you try to counter this notion with the following paragraph where Akuto comes back from the Afterlife:
“Sorry about that.” He looked embarrassed. “I was in a dimension where time was meaningless.”
“I do not know what you mean, but I assume everything has been resolved in some way.”
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-Act 13, Chapter 6.

take note that we still saw seasons passing inside it:
It was unclear how much time meant in the afterlife, but if you counted the seasons, it had been five years. Akuto and the girls should have gotten older, but their appearances hadn’t changed.
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-Act 13, chapter 3.
it doesn't matter if there is time or not, this wiki doesn't matter either.Even at 1A or 11A, time may still exist.

Shuradou said:
This section isn't as important to the overall cosmological structure of the novel as the other sections, especially after clarification on the story hierarchy, but I think it's important to bring it up to show the relation between Gods and Akuto, how they interact with each other and what are the power dynamics between them.

So, to start it off, if it wasn't obvious from the previous section, gods themselves have no real hierarchy:
-Act 13, chapter 4.

They fear inter-universal invasion:
-Act 13, chapter 1.

They are capable of being beaten with time travel from beings they supposedly view as fiction:
-Act 13, chapter 1.

-Act 13, chapter 1.

Akuto is claimed to be completely transcended over the Extra Universal Gods and can easily erase them, but... they can still beat him (...and do beat him sometimes) even though they are supposed to be fictional to him:
-Act 13, chapter 4.

-Act 13, chapter 4.

Not only that, but there is no proof anywhere that Akuto is "inserting" his avatar or anything of that nature inside these stories so before that argument is even brought up - it is invalid as it's unsupported by anything in the story.

More proof that Akuto isn't "transcended" over Extra Universal Gods:
-Act 13, chapter 4.

One god is even able to enter Afterlife Akuto's stories as a main character:
-Act 13, Chapter 4.

but that doesn't make Akuto have some sort of "fictional transcendence" over him, especially because of the fact this type of god is the next step in the "evolution" for Akuto:
-Act 13, chapter 6.

The last part can actually be considered as an addition to the section "R>F Hierarchy", but I felt it was more appropriate to put it here, as it's talking about the gods and Akuto. To elaborate on why this is tied to the other section - it's because it further cements (if everything else wasn't enough already) the fact that perceiving the world and characters as fictional doesn't translate to an infinite power gap in-verse in this specific work of fiction.
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It doesn't make sense to have time. Now, if I go back to the extra universal gods and Akuto case, "Akuto fought with them, sometimes he won, sometimes he lost", this sentence looks like a war of beings with very close powers from the outside, doesn't it? but there is a problem , what raises this problem is the endless possibilities . If we carefully read what is written in the section of infinite possibilities, infinite possibilities are Akuto's releasing his own wall and revealing the possibilities within himself, and even extra-universal gods have become possibilities. After making the endless surface and starting to talk to hiroshi, Akuto extra says I will summon the universal gods and shows that he can do it because they are part of his story. As a matter of fact, he calls them from his own fiction, just like Akuto calls marie eriko. and a little later bouchiro already mentioned that the extra universal gods are fictions for them. Let's get back to the fighting thing. If Akuto and the extra-universal gods were so close to each other, would their attacks stop when Akuto got bored and stopped writing stories while they were really winning an Akuto? Did the extra universal gods say: "Akuto is bored and let's not fight him anymore", of course they didn't say that. When Akuto left, they did not even become a threat because the war that Akuto gave was actually a war in his own mind. If I remember correctly, there was a scan that said afterlife was Akuto himself.
That's all from me for now, I'll continue to respond again this week.
 
Not trying to be an ass, but I absolutely did not understand anything from what you just said......
 
AKUTO123 said:
I have not seen a rule in wiki standards that one cannot go to a higher dimensional world with a device. It's my fault if it is, but I'm pretty sure it's not.
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In Marvel, DC and other works they have ships/object and other things that allow you not only to travel between Higher dimensions, but to literally leave the entire cosmos and be in non-existence and move in it as if nothing happened.
 
PairusDragonoid said:
In Marvel, DC and other works they have ships/object and other things that allow you not only to travel between Higher dimensions, but to literally leave the entire cosmos and be in non-existence and move in it as if nothing happened.
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Pretty sure there's further context rather than just some random ship or whatever. You have boom tubes that increase/decrease one's ontological size when going to higher/lower realms, which technically goes against that logic completely.
 
PairusDragonoid said:
In Marvel, DC and other works they have ships/object and other things that allow you not only to travel between Higher dimensions, but to literally leave the entire cosmos and be in non-existence and move in it as if nothing happened.
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Marvel and DC has their own Context for that, Daimao doesn't.
 
Yeah, I haven't found the time to spend several hours writing replies to everything the last days and, as I said a week ago, I definitely won't have time from tomorrow onwards.

If someone can summarize the absolutely most important points I, in particular, should reply to I will try to get that done at least.

Devices that can sent you to the afterlife in any case don't disprove reality-fiction stuff. Like, in general. It's not like you can simply fly from the living world to the afterlife.

It's not even like the technologies are very strange for doing that. The coffin uses the inherent relationship between the realities in having someone first die and then resurrecting them. The afterlife is the afterlife, after all. Using the natural process to get there and back makes sense.

Meanwhile, the time travel technology even uses the fact that reality is a story to work, according to how Yamato explained it.
 
Thank you for helping out DontTalk.

I would also appreciate if somebody summarises everything that you need him to respond to.

Also, as he said, he will have to be on a break very soon, so this discussion will be postponed until he comes back.
 
Antvasima said:
Thank you for helping out DontTalk.

I would also appreciate if somebody summarises everything that you need him to respond to.

Also, as he said, he will have to be on a break very soon, so this discussion will be postponed until he comes back.
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By postponed I hope you don't mean closing the thread completely like Uminekos as Akuto123 plans to respond through out the week lol
 
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