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Demon King Daimao downgrade ig

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TokiNoOuja said:
I meet someone who say Vsb term are bad and CSAP are better yet he use Vsb term to scale his characters
Click to expand...
that is pretty much everywhere man everyone took outerversial from VSbattles and the tier system as a whole but still go on about how bad this site is because it actually has rules instead of pointless debating that gets no where
 
Alright, so, as I said I wanna get to this at the weekend, preferably tomorrow. (Although a family member has a birthday, so... we'll see. Might get pushed to sunday since I can already tell you that I will write half a novel.)

Anyways, for that, I wanted to just focus on the reality-fiction difference for now, which of course also relates to the afterlife transcendence. To do so, I'm gathering and briefly summarizing all arguments in that regard that were given. You know, to be able to properly organize them and to make sure I didn't miss anything. We want third party readers to also be able to understand this stuff, after all. (Cause, let's be honest, this has to ultimately be decided by calling in a lot more staff)
I'm not through the entire thread yet, but I wanted to already ask you guys for any corrections or additions to my list anyway. You guys need time to do so, too, after all.
So here is the arguments of you (i.e. the arguments in favor of a downgrade) that I have at this point:
  • The Robe of the Fire Rat can travel to the afterlife and back
  • The only difference between Afterlife and the original world is the presence of a barrier. In the original world you would hit a barrier if you kept going in one direction (when you reach the end of the solar system), while in afterlife space loops back.
  • Story density / storification stuff isn't about higher layers
  • Controlling the universe from outside is enough to consider it not real
  • Characters that are supposedly fictional from the perspective of the higher being are able to influence them.
  • The stories are capable of fighting the one that created them, or in other words, the one that should supposedly be in a layer infinitely transcended to them
  • The stories created by Akuto and gods are capable of fighting each other even though there should have been multiple layers of "fictional transcendence" between them
  • time flows the same between afterlife and living world
  • Void-Universe is the next step of evolution (I'm don't quite understand why that would be a contradiction to the R>F stuff. Some clarification here would be appreciated)
  • The word "stories" is sometimes used methaphorically / not synonymous to dimension / reality-fiction stuff
    • Specifically the real life is fictional thing regarding the afterlife is metaphorical and actually means the characters don't have their free will and are being controlled by some outside force
I will add the rest of what I find tomorrow when I search the rest of the thread, but until then the downgrade supporters can probably already say what they want added, dropped or changed.
 
Last edited:
DontTalkDT said:
Alright, so, as I said I wanna get to this at the weekend, preferably tomorrow. (Although a family member has a birthday, so... we'll see. Might get pushed to sunday.)

Anyways, for that, I wanted to just focus on the reality-fiction difference for now, which of course also relates to the afterlife transcendence. To do so, I'm gathering and briefly summarizing all arguments in that regard that were given. You know, to be able to properly organize them and to make sure I didn't miss anything. We want third party readers to also be able to understand this stuff, after all. (Cause, let's be honest, this has to ultimately be decided by calling in a lot more staff)
I'm not through the entire thread yet, but I wanted to already ask you guys for any corrections or additions to my list anyway. You guys need to do so, too, after all.
So here is the arguments that I have at this point:
  • The Robe of the Fire Rat can travel to the afterlife and back (by unknown means beyond "maybe necromancy or a device to travel between dimensions")
  • The afterlife is finite
  • The only difference between Afterlife and the original world is the presence of a barrier. In the original world you would hit a barrier if you kept going in one direction (when you reach the end of the solar system), while in afterlife space loops back.
  • Story density / storification stuff isn't about higher layers
  • Controlling the universe from outside is enough to consider it not real
  • Characters that are supposedly fictional from the perspective of the higher being are able to influence them.
  • The stories are capable of fighting the one that created them, or in other words, the one that should supposedly be in a layer infinitely transcended to them
  • The stories created by Akuto and gods are capable of fighting each other even though there should have been multiple layers of "fictional transcendence" between them
  • time flows between afterlife and living world the same
  • Void-Universe is the next step of evolution (I'm don't quite understand why that would be a contradiction to the R>F stuff. Some clarification here would be appreciated)
  • The word "stories" is sometimes used methaphorically / not synonymous to dimension / reality-fiction stuff
    • Specifically the real life is fictional thing regarding the afterlife is metaphorical and actually means the characters don't have their free will and are being controlled by some outside force
I will add the rest of what I find tomorrow when I search the rest of the thread, but until then the downgrade supporters can probably already say what they want added, dropped or changed.
Click to expand...
Are these the arguments you're fighting against?
 
Those I have found to this point, yes. As said, I still haven't finished searching the entire thread for all of them.
 
Btw., full disclosure, after I make this next reply I will probably ask all staff members for input and will just go with whatever they decide.

Come Monday I will be too busy to reply here again and having a debate in which someone replies once a week sucks for all of us. Not to mention that I get high blood pressure whenever I think about having this still lying around unfinished lol
 
DontTalkDT said:
Btw., full disclosure, after I make this next reply I will probably ask all staff members for input and will just go with whatever they decide.

Come Monday I will be too busy to reply here again and having a debate in which someone replies once a week sucks for all of us. Not to mention that I get high blood pressure whenever I think about having this still lying around unfinished lol
Click to expand...
hope you end up ok, there is no point in getting health issues over fictional character statistics

....Do you mind if I try to gather people to prepare for your post?
 
Meganova_Stella said:
hope you end up ok, there is no point in getting health issues over fictional character statistics
Click to expand...
Oh don't worry. I meant the blood pressure thing figuratively for getting stressed out. I'm perfectly fine.

Meganova_Stella said:
....Do you mind if I try to gather people to prepare for your post?
Click to expand...
I'm not sure who you want to gather and why... but feel free to do as you like?
 
DontTalkDT said:
Oh don't worry. I meant the blood pressure thing figuratively for getting stressed out. I'm perfectly fine.


I'm not sure who you want to gather and why... but feel free to do as you like?
Click to expand...
He mainly wants to get one of our friends to stop saying that Akuto solos SMT
 
DontTalkDT said:
Alright, so, as I said I wanna get to this at the weekend, preferably tomorrow. (Although a family member has a birthday, so... we'll see. Might get pushed to sunday since I can already tell you that I will write half a novel.)

Anyways, for that, I wanted to just focus on the reality-fiction difference for now, which of course also relates to the afterlife transcendence. To do so, I'm gathering and briefly summarizing all arguments in that regard that were given. You know, to be able to properly organize them and to make sure I didn't miss anything. We want third party readers to also be able to understand this stuff, after all. (Cause, let's be honest, this has to ultimately be decided by calling in a lot more staff)
I'm not through the entire thread yet, but I wanted to already ask you guys for any corrections or additions to my list anyway. You guys need time to do so, too, after all.
So here is the arguments of you (i.e. the arguments in favor of a downgrade) that I have at this point:
  • The Robe of the Fire Rat can travel to the afterlife and back
  • The only difference between Afterlife and the original world is the presence of a barrier. In the original world you would hit a barrier if you kept going in one direction (when you reach the end of the solar system), while in afterlife space loops back.
  • Story density / storification stuff isn't about higher layers
  • Controlling the universe from outside is enough to consider it not real
  • Characters that are supposedly fictional from the perspective of the higher being are able to influence them.
  • The stories are capable of fighting the one that created them, or in other words, the one that should supposedly be in a layer infinitely transcended to them
  • The stories created by Akuto and gods are capable of fighting each other even though there should have been multiple layers of "fictional transcendence" between them
  • time flows the same between afterlife and living world
  • Void-Universe is the next step of evolution (I'm don't quite understand why that would be a contradiction to the R>F stuff. Some clarification here would be appreciated)
  • The word "stories" is sometimes used methaphorically / not synonymous to dimension / reality-fiction stuff
    • Specifically the real life is fictional thing regarding the afterlife is metaphorical and actually means the characters don't have their free will and are being controlled by some outside force
I will add the rest of what I find tomorrow when I search the rest of the thread, but until then the downgrade supporters can probably already say what they want added, dropped or changed.
Click to expand...
I think tomorrow will be an interesting day. Although the arguments are too weak for me, I am curious about the outcome of the discussion.
 
Odinson said:
you mean the arguments are SO weak that they're not even worth your time ?! Damn
Click to expand...

so it is for me, but here the arguments are not worth answering, so let's close the discussion. It is necessary to respond to the arguments given with respect. weak arguments for me, solid arguments for third parties because
 
AKUTO123 said:
so it is for me, but here the arguments are not worth answering, so let's close the discussion. It is necessary to respond to the arguments given with respect. weak arguments for me, solid arguments for third parties because
Click to expand...
How about the solar System size Universe?i don't read Ichiban but did all Ichiban Universes are just solar System in size?
 
AKUTO123 said:
so it is for me, but here the arguments are not worth answering, so let's close the discussion. It is necessary to respond to the arguments given with respect. weak arguments for me, solid arguments for third parties because
Click to expand...
What in god's earth.... You can't debunk them anyway.
 
AKUTO123 said:
so it is for me, but here the arguments are not worth answering, so let's close the discussion. It is necessary to respond to the arguments given with respect. weak arguments for me, solid arguments for third parties because
Click to expand...
12.jpg

TokiNoOuja said:
How about the solar System size Universe?i don't read Ichiban but did all Ichiban Universes are just solar System in size?
Click to expand...
Yes, all of them are of that size.
 
TokiNoOuja said:
How about the solar System size Universe?i don't read Ichiban but did all Ichiban Universes are just solar System in size?
Click to expand...
In the series, it is only called this dimension for the real world. The first layer of the hereafter is as much as a planet that Akuton unwittingly changed, but the virtual alternative dimension is 4D, and the dimensions of the infinite and infinite possibilities of the universes will be variable.
 
Sus said:
What in god's earth.... You can't debunk them anyway.
Click to expand...
I want to talk about things like "they go to higher dimensions with tools, they are not higher dimensions" in the big discussion that will take place tomorrow, but I don't need to refute arguments like this because the argument contradicts the tier system. DT also expressed this. Anyway, we'll see if we can refute it tomorrow. For now, it seems that arguing will lead nowhere.
 
AKUTO123 said:
I want to talk about things like "they go to higher dimensions with tools, they are not higher dimensions" in the big discussion that will take place tomorrow, but I don't need to refute arguments like this because the argument contradicts the tier system. DT also expressed this. Anyway, we'll see if we can refute it tomorrow. For now, it seems that arguing will lead nowhere.
Click to expand...
Love how you ignored every other supportive argument and just picked Haha "they go to higher dimensions with tools, they are not higher dimensions" even though no one argued that. At least figure what are you arguing for.
 
Shuradou said:
Love how you ignored every other supportive argument and just picked Haha "they go to higher dimensions with tools, they are not higher dimensions" even though no one argued that. At least figure what are you arguing for.
Click to expand...
Isn't it an argument you put forward in crt? it's my fault if it isn't, but I just said it for an example. We will of course also discuss the other arguments you have put forward to show my friend who replied to me that things are not debunkable. I know very well what I am defending, but it would be better if you do not make such comments without thinking about what I mean.
 
@Shuradou Can you clarify why you meant the "Void-Universe is the next step of evolution" argument in the OP indicates no reality-fiction layers?


That aside, I went through the rest of the thread and I think I have, fundamentally, found no additional arguments. Although I lot of explanation on the listed ones. Here my list again:
DontTalkDT said:
  • The Robe of the Fire Rat can travel to the afterlife and back
  • The only difference between Afterlife and the original world is the presence of a barrier. In the original world you would hit a barrier if you kept going in one direction (when you reach the end of the solar system), while in afterlife space loops back.
  • Story density / storification stuff isn't about higher layers
  • Controlling the universe from outside is enough to consider it not real
  • Characters that are supposedly fictional from the perspective of the higher being are able to influence them.
  • The stories are capable of fighting the one that created them, or in other words, the one that should supposedly be in a layer infinitely transcended to them
  • The stories created by Akuto and gods are capable of fighting each other even though there should have been multiple layers of "fictional transcendence" between them
  • time flows the same between afterlife and living world
  • Void-Universe is the next step of evolution (I'm don't quite understand why that would be a contradiction to the R>F stuff. Some clarification here would be appreciated)
  • The word "stories" is sometimes used methaphorically / not synonymous to dimension / reality-fiction stuff
    • Specifically the real life is fictional thing regarding the afterlife is metaphorical and actually means the characters don't have their free will and are being controlled by some outside force
Click to expand...
So, just to make sure, I ask again: Anything that should get added to that list before I get to writing my reply?
 
DontTalkDT said:
@Shuradou Can you clarify why you meant the "Void-Universe is the next step of evolution" argument in the OP indicates no reality-fiction layers?


That aside, I went through the rest of the thread and I think I have, fundamentally, found no additional arguments. Although I lot of explanation on the listed ones. Here my list again:

So, just to make sure, I ask again: Anything that should get added to that list before I get to writing my reply?
Click to expand...

Some people threw a Tweet of Author saying "Infinite term is a mistranslation in my works" or something.
 
Odinson said:
How was it harsh ?
Click to expand...
I didn't tell you, I told my friend
NothingToDebateWith said:
Some people threw a Tweet of Author saying "Infinite term is a mistranslation in my works" or something.
Click to expand...
Well no at all. That answer was given on this question ; ''My question is this. I'd really appreciate it if you could answer them. 1. In the novel, Archetype Extra Universe God, there is a sentence for Extra God, "They were humanoid and countless in number." When you say countless, do you mean infinite number?''
Basically, he is asked if the meaning of the countless words in the paragraph can be infinite... Not for other paragraphs.
 
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