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DCEU Superman Downgrade

JackJoyce

JackJoyce

1,640
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The Mother Boxes were used to resurrect Superma it's unclear if he was actually empowered by it. It was even assumed as a key to unlimited energy and celluler Regenerationn. Steppenwolf didn't died or knocked out from Superman stomping him and the lack of any concrete feat suggests that rating him High 6-A is an extreme exaggeration

Victor: They brought it to STAR Labs...

where my father recognized it...

as a perpetual energy matrix.

Barry: That sounds cool.

I thought it was like a nuclear bomb.

Victor: A Mother Box destroys as it creates.

It's a cycle of life, but a million times faster.

My father thought it was the key to unlimited energy.

New formulas, cellular Regenerationn...

But it's too volatile to control.

Bruce: He used it on you.

Victor: I was in an accident.

I should've died.

My father thought that he could use the Mother Box to rebuild the broken parts of me with a few cybernetic enhancements.

Instead, he built a living machine.

I may be stronger than its host.

Bruce: Too much. Too much life.

Arthur: What's on your weird mind?

Bruce: Muscles. Coordination.

Basic cellular integrity.

A human being can only absorb so much.

The Mother Box was designed to reshape a planet.

Arthur: So?

Bruce: So...

What if you were stronger than a planet?

Your cells lying dormant, but incapable of decay.

If you were in a conductive field...

A boost from the Mother Box...

Barry: could bring "him" back to life.

Bruce: The Kryptonian ship has an amniotic chamber which should be a perfect...


Separating the 3 mother boxes isn't a High 6-A feat either. He had help from Cyborg who was confident enough to do it alone. Also a single ligtning bolt from Zeus separated the 3 mother boxes.

Victor: The Unity brings all three boxes together in perfect sync.

Its power builds until it can't be contained.

But if I can cause a delay between each box,

even for a nanosecond...

Its energy will cascade. Form a loop.

Bruce: And they'll feed on each other.

Barry: And that's it? We just pull them apart?

No fuss, no muss?

Victor: Separating the boxes is still gonna cause a massive surge. I have to be there.
 
The main problem for Sup being High 6-A is the Zeus thing. In the flashback, we see Zeus seprating the three Mother Boxes with one thunderbolt and they separate in an instant. Superman clearly struggled and needed Cyborg's help to separate the Boxes on the other hand. And it's pretty clear Zeus makes NO effort to separate the Boxes because he is so powerful that he doesn't need to make any effort. Zeus does it with ease, Superman needs help and they struggle. He is probably more powerful than before but syaing he is High 6-A might be exagerated to me.

Then again, it is problem when counting profiles like Ares, Wonder Woman, etc.
 
Your suggestions for change would not change anything in relation to the profiles. We did not use the separation of the Mother Boxes as a High 6-A feat
 
That's the thing. It's repeatdly brought on the table because it's very important for the calculations. Even resurrected, Superman is weaker than Zeus was. And even without considering it, Steppenwolf would have been at least so wounded that he wouldn't have been able to move if with that gape of power. Sure, Sup was far more powerful but High 6-A, really ?
 
Dude, just take a look at his profile. Look at the justifications for the High 6-A Tier
 
I know the justification, i red it many times. My problem is that with THAT gape of power, Steppenwolf would have been completely obliterated, possibly in the literral sense. Superman is obviously stronger than before, nothing can counter that. But that powerful, i still have doubt. But again, it's still a personal opinion.

The Zeus thing on the other hand still bothers me. But i guess it will be very long before it could be resolved (if it can).
 
Steppenwolf would not be obliterated. Not all Superman hits will have High 6-A energy, this can be both plot convenience and Superman's intention, not killing unless necessary as happened in the first movie.
 
M3X said:
Steppenwolf would not be obliterated. Not all Superman hits will have High 6-A energy, this can be both plot convenience and Superman's intention, not killing unless necessary as happened in the first movie.
Click to expand...
That i can understand. And again, i'm not saying Supes isn't stronger than before even with my doubts.

As i said i thought about something for the Zeus/Mother Boxes stuff (if we decided to count it and i'm not saying it will be counted, it's just in case of).
 
Possibly (let's be honest, there are plenty in the movie...no, i didn't liked it).

Though that also could be something else.
 
My idea is this :

We know the problem with making Zeus High 6-A comes from the fact that Ares was able to kill him and was later killed by WW, who is weaker than Zeus and was overpowered by Supes but likely equal to Aquaman who is ultimately stronger than Orm, etc. So making Zeus High 6-A would alter the entire verse because it would mean putting Ares to High 6-A, etc, etc. Now here's my idea.

First, i insist but the Mother boxes stuff is important :

Zeus : Separated the Boxes with one bolt, making no effort in the process wich indicates he can do it casually and it's not something that would be unusual.

Superman : Needed Cyborg's help to do it (meaning he is not as strong as Zeus was by himself), they had to put a lot of effort in it and they were exhausted after it. Sure Supes recovered very quickly but it still exhausted him. The fact that there is such a difference between Zeus's case and Supes's case should be taken for account.

Now for Ares. Obviously, he is not High 6-A normally (including "likely High 6-A" or "possibly High 6-A"). Now, in the WW movie, it was stated that Ares was empowered by the War of the Gods and the death of all the other Olympians. That is why he managed to mortally wound Zeus in the first place, something he wouldn't have been able to accomplish in his normal state. And when he finally faces Diana, he is not empowered (at least not as much as he was during the War of the Gods) so he is in his normal state. Take note that, agan, he needed to kill all the other gods (beings far more powerful than Kryptonians, Amazons or Demigods) to be powerful enough to at least face Zeus.

With that said, here's my idea :

- Zeus would be "At least 6-C, likely High 6-A" with the justification being that he was able to separate the Mother Boxes with a single bolt and without being exhausted while it took a real effort for Supes and Cyborg to do it.

- Ares : would be "At least 6-C, likely 6-B, potentially High 6-A via Empowerment". He is not High 6-A in his normal state by any mean but he reached that with being empowered by the War of the Gods.
 
Huh, Zeus's attack made Ares weaker than prime Ares, to the point of being defeated by Wonder Woman. So, I don't think Zeus being High 6-A will be a problem considering this. And I appreciate your thoughts about the subject
 
Thanks. This bothers me since JL and i know solving it isn't easy. I still think it should be counted anyway but i understand why it isn't actually. with all the mess that could bring to the verse. As much as i like him (because honestly, i like Ares in that movie, especially the way his powers are depicted, even if he is not as cool as he is in the comics), he couldn't be High 6-A normally.

Now, i don't know if what i said will make the edits for Zeus and Ares possible but i'm glad if i helped anyway.
 
Maybe 2 keys for Ares? Prime and Depowered. Zeus could easily be High 6-A for the Mother Box stuff and Prime Ares being comparable to him.
 
Can be good (though i don't think "Depowered" is correct, it's more his normal state without Empowerment or when he is weakened). That would give the actual tier for base Ares and High 6-A for Prime.

Zeus can be noted High 6-A or "At least 7-A to 6-C, likely High 6-A".
 
Oh ok. Waht's the calculation/feat for Low 6-B in the DCEU (I may have seen it somewhere else but i don't remember exactly) ?
 
It is from Zeus creating a island before his death, also, there are some good feats from MoS and I will calc them
 
Ok. I can also say that MoS has some feats that could have give this.

So that would lead to : Ares (Base/Weakened) : Low 6-B/ Ares (Prime) : High 6-A and Zeus : High 6-A (or maybe At least Low 6-B, likely High 6-A ?).
 
Why ? I think the explanations we gave here are good to do it (with precautions and precisions baout each one of them of course).
 
That's the only one i'm aware about. Though the Low 6-B was mentionned somewhere else i think. The rest of the talking (Zeus, Ares) came in after.
 
I do not know what your intention is in this comment, since one thing is not related to the other. This feat is being removed from his profile
 
I don't like the cherry-picking of feats here to inflate Superman. Even the metaphorical statements of Batman calling him stronger than a planet (a planet is made up of rocks and soil) is taken into account. Also Superman has no High 6-A feats as of yet. Why don't we leave him At least Low 6-B until we get further hints in the upcoming movies? One mother box itself cannot terraform a planet either you need to unite all 3 of them to do so
 
Take the value to terraform the planet's surface and divide by 3, you will still get High 6-A results. There is no reason to expect more DCEU movies, they are almost doing a reboot
 
JackJoyce High 6-A is about destroying or at least making extreme damages to a planet's surface so of course planets don't have Tier 5 durability since tier 6 can cause such damages.

The only value of comparing Zeus and Superman is for possible editing about Zeus's tier (and Ares since it would affect the entire verse). Of course, i still have doubts about Superman being High 6-A but still, Zeus's thing is not related to editing Supes's tier. Though i somehow agree with the metaphorical part.

M3X The DCEU isn't completely dead. Aquaman and WW are still existing. Same thing for Harley Queen and Suicide Squad (since there will be the same Waller and the same Flag). We'lll have to wait to see if Batman can be counted. Superman's saga is over though i think.
 
I never actually looked at his profile much but did Ares not already have two keys for his prime and WW versions?

Either way it should be fairly obvious that he was nowhere close to the version that faced Zeus seeing as he basically states that he was nerfed to hell and back by Zeus' last hit and is being empowered by the war to reach godhood or smth again. Any change to Zeus and Prime Ares should change absolutely nothing about the verse unless we get statements and such that place Supes above Zeus.
 
Are we sure seperating the Mother Boxes requires the same amount of force contained within the Mother Boxes themselves? Just because they have enough energy to terraform a planet within them doesn't necessarily mean you need too produce the same amount of force to seperate them from each other.
 
AnonymousBlank No, he hasn't two keys currently. The two "versions" of him are indeed considerably different. Prime Ares was empowered by the death of all the other Olympians (in order words, he was empowered by the death of GODS) when he faced Zeus and mortally wounded him. It's pretty clear that WW wouldn't have been able to even scratch him if he was that high. He still retained godhood though but he was at his regular level and not empowered.

In any case, i think we still can edit Zeus and Ares only without changing the verse itself.

SuperAPM Actually i think it is right in a way. The Unity is bascially pure energy so separating the Boxes means separating pure energy powerful enough to terraform a planet in three parts. That's the only thing that makes me accept Superman can be High 6-A even if i still have doubts.
 
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