DCEU light speed justification (again)

[AnonymousBlank]

But the source still comes from a material that's not canon to other properties. You can use it as secondary evidence for artistic flair, but its not a major point of evidence for anything outside of the SnyderCut universe.

Sure, whatever. That still means we have reflection in a primary source, a statement it is made of light in a secondary source and a direct visual comparison to concentrated natural light (which is what a secondary source heavily implies HV is) that looks identical.

And against it we have what? Things it hits the explode, it gets called energy and a single light speed statement? Extreme heat causes rapid expansion which explains things exploding, light has energy in the first place so the statements aren’t mutually exclusive, and one statement vs three different pieces of evidence that all point to or straight up say HV is light. Evidence that isn’t coming from characters but narrator, WoG and a shown property.

You can’t even argue the other speed feats limit the characters either as the lighting feats are casual, and the flight feats all come from vastly weaker versions of Supes who is either flying for the first time or both poisoned and exhausted from hours of exertion.

It would be ignoring a statement about their run when the company hired another writer to go back and rewrite their run and change a vast swath of elements to something else. In that case you wouldn't take the WoG quote as being indicative for the retconned verse.

First of all, it doesn’t matter what else was changed from Zack’s plan as MoS and BvS were completely untouched which is where the HV calcs come from, ergo sage’s point stands. This is about visuals, not the story or characters.

Secondly, HV isn’t visually different in JL 2017? We literally see the flare and bloom shit in Supes vs the League.

Even other visuals such as Superman’s punches causing flares of light and Diana’s gauntlet shockwaves are the same in JL 2017 as they are in Zack’s movies. Aside from lower quality SFX, everything in JL is the same.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You can’t even argue the other speed feats limit the characters either as the lighting feats are casual, and the flight feats all come from vastly weaker versions of Supes who is either flying for the first time or both poisoned and exhausted from hours of exertion.

I'm not arguing against the calcs being reaccepted. I just took issue with some of your points. My biggest issue was speed consistency and that was rendered as a non-issue as soon as someone pointed out that was mistaken.

I mean, the vast bulk of the pro-SoL evidence come from sources I provided or assisted in providing. It would be weird if I was against my own evidence.

ergo sage’s point stands. This is about visuals

Visuals that were removed in the mainstream cut of the movie. Focused sunlight having a flair is only from the SnyderCut.

 

[sageof8paths]

While I get what you are trying to say about the “flower and bloom” point being in the SnyderCut, it doesn’t actually change anything here as it is still how Snyder portrays a concentrated beam of natural light, canon or not.

It would be the equivalent of dismissing an author statement about their run just because they are answering a question after their run. By all means, argue that LS HV is inconsistent and doesn’t fit with the other speed feats in the verse but dismissing the magnified sunlight scene is a no go in regards to sage’s point.

Even if the snyderverse wasn’t canon, I have absolutely no issue with the changes only being applied to the snyderverse profiles.

 

[sageof8paths]

I'm not arguing against the calcs being reaccepted. I just took issue with some of your points. My biggest issue was speed consistency and that was rendered as a non-issue as soon as someone pointed out that was mistaken.

I mean, the vast bulk of the pro-SoL evidence come from sources I provided or assisted in providing. It would be weird if I was against my own evidence.

Visuals that were removed in the mainstream cut of the movie. Focused sunlight having a flair is only from the SnyderCut.

Although there are no official statements u could argue the snydercut has been retconned into the timeline based on Shazam 2 trailer and some director statements.

but again, if it’s such a big problem then the speed calcs should just be applied to the snyderverse profiles or keys

 

[Qawsedf234]

It's probably not big enough to note.

Anyways a vote can be tallied.

 

[sageof8paths]

It's probably not big enough to note.

Anyways a vote can be tallied.

Please could tag the staff memebers interested in it so they can give their final thoughts on it after reading the debunks and what not?

 

[Qawsedf234]

@LordGriffin1000 @Aguywhodoesthings @KLOL506

 

[sageof8paths]

@LordGriffin1000 @Aguywhodoesthings @KLOL506

And with everything that has been said do u disagree?

 

[sageof8paths]

Also propellus and aguywhodoesthings already agreed on the first page.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I already said I was fine with it

 

[KLOL506]

Honestly I also think the "against" points are flawed to try and debunk light speed Heat Vision, especially with regards to causing physical destruction, we have plenty of weapons and moves with blatant light speed statements and speed values outright mentioned that also cause physical damage. So this should be no different.

In any case, put me up for "agree".

 

[Propellus]

To be honest, most of the discredits against HV being lightspeed seems more like nitpicks

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Overall I guess I'm fine with it, I've got a few issues with some stuff but that's not directly tied to the heat vision itself.

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Alright then, are we going with rel or rel+?

 

[Propellus]

Alright then, are we going with rel or rel+?

Both, because originally it was Relativistic combat speed with Relativistic+ reactions

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Both, because originally it was Relativistic combat speed with Relativistic+ reactions

I briefly brought up that the Relativistic feat seemed like Aim Dodging, but it got overshadowed by the Heat Vision downgrade

 

[sageof8paths]

I briefly brought up that the Relativistic feat seemed like Aim Dodging, but it got overshadowed by the Heat Vision downgrade

Her hands where still moving relative to the beams

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Her hands where still moving relative to the beams

No, in the one I'm referring to, Wonder Woman's arms were already moving and in the block position before Doomsday’s heat vision was fired. There wasn’t any relative movement to the beams

 

[sageof8paths]

No, in the one I'm referring to, Wonder Woman's arms were already moving and in the block position before Doomsday’s heat vision was fired. There wasn’t any relative movement to the beams

I know what you’re referring to and you’re still wrong. Although her hands where moving before the beam was shot, it was still relative to the beam. Take your own advice and watch it in slow motion.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Late but I agree with Lightspeed Heat Vision.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I know what you’re referring to and you’re still wrong. Although her hands where moving before the beam was shot, it was still relative to the beam. Take your own advice and watch it in slow motion.

I did. Numerous times. I don't see that anywhere

 

[sageof8paths]

I did. Numerous times. I don't see that anywhere

Ok lemme just prove u wrong with these screen shots.




The beam has been shot but as u can clearly see she has not achieved her blocking position yet


She has achieved blocking position, the beam still hasn’t even reached half way yet proving she moves relative to the speed of the beams.





The beam finally hits her. We know this because of the firey bloom that these beams have.

I hope you’re not trying to downgrade dc for marvels sake.

but with that being said, can the changes be re-applied?

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Ok lemme just prove u wrong with these screen shots.


The beam has been shot but as u can clearly see she has not achieved her blocking position yet

She has achieved blocking position, the beam still hasn’t even reached half way yet proving she moves relative to the speed of the beams.



The beam finally hits her. We know this because of the firey bloom that these beams have.

Cool

I hope you’re not trying to downgrade dc for marvels sake.

 

[Propellus]

Given how this thread is widely accepted, shall we start reapplying the SoL Kryptonians and Rel high tiers?

 

[sageof8paths]

I mean yeah, all the staff memebers that have seen this thread’s final verdict is agreeing.

 

[Qawsedf234]

It would reapplying all of their old ratings I think.

 

[Hellbeast]

Also isn’t it possible for light to carry force; the issue iirc is it can’t be proven to build kinetic energy as it passes

 

[Qawsedf234]

Also isn’t it possible for light to carry force

Light carries something like 10^-28 kilogram force.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Anyways what profiles need to be unlocked for this thread to get finished.

 

[Hellbeast]

I’d assume the usual suspects (Superman, Wonder Woman, Steppenwolf etc)

 

[NHTkenshin2]

Anyways what profiles need to be unlocked for this thread to get finished.

Spoiler: People who scale

Superman
Wonder Women
Aquaman
Flash
Cyborg
General zod
Faora
Nam-Ek
Doomsday
Black manta
Ares
Zeus
Darkseid
Steppenwolf
Ocean master
I forgot his name
Atlanna
Karathen
Mother boxes
Justice league (except batman)

Correct me if im wrong

Superman, doomsday and Zod get Speed of light Attack speeds with heat vision
All others get Relativistic+ Reaction speeds

 

[Hellbeast]

I’d say just Sub-Rel since wasn’t the Rel+ feat aim dodging?

 

[NHTkenshin2]

I’d say just Sub-Rel since wasn’t the Rel+ feat aim dodging?

It seems like sage brought some evidence for it not being aimdodging

 

[Propellus]

I’d say just Sub-Rel since wasn’t the Rel+ feat aim dodging?

Seems like that got debunked

 

[Qawsedf234]

All others get Relativistic+ Reaction speeds

What are the calcs again?

 

[Propellus]

I found them

 

[NHTkenshin2]

23% the speed of light is not Rel+, its just Rel
Unless i am missing something

 

[RoTt35]

Aim Dodging wasn't debunked since Wonder Woman starts moving before the HV was fired, Sage's argument is that even though it was Aim Dodging WW's moves are relative to the speed of the HV

 

[Qawsedf234]

Superman, doomsday and Zod get Speed of light Attack speeds with heat vision

They get a SoL heat vision rating

All others get Relativistic+ Reaction speeds

It would be Rel with Rel+ reaction speed.

Spoiler: People who scale

Unless I'm wrong, aren't all of them already unlocked?

 

[Propellus]

But the thing is, where does the Rel with the plus sign come from? Which is what I've wondered from that calc