Dc General Cosmic Revision ( How far into 1A are the characters and cosmology )

[azontr]

What is happening here. I thought we were just having a discussion

Someone tried to insult me. I trolled them. They liked it. We have fun.

 

[DaReaperMan]

What is happening here. I thought we were just having a discussion

Something I hope the mods don't see lol

 

[Fitz_100]

Beating 1-A character=Scaling chain in baseline 1-A
Transcending 1-A character by a transcendence similar to how they became 1-A in the first place=Higher layer into 1-A
Transcending the system on which 1-A transcendences are defined=High 1-A

And do u think the Overvoid have any feat/statement that places him as high 1A? I dont think he is more than 3-4layers above 1A if not even baseline

 

[Darksmash]

And do u think the Overvoid have any feat/statement that places him as high 1A?

Nope

 

[DaReaperMan]

Maybe

 

[azontr]

Maybe

Tzeentch, is that you?

 

[Fitz_100]

Nope

Personally think he was stated to transcend the multiverse he sent monitors to observe the same multiverse is high 1B at best making him low 1A or 1A baseline together with Pralaya.

Also have zero justification for any of the angels or endless

 

[DaReaperMan]

Personally think he was stated to transcend the multiverse he sent monitors to observe the same multiverse is high 1B at best making him low 1A or 1A baseline together with Pralaya.

Also have zero justification for any of the angels or endless

 

[DaReaperMan]

That's the """""1-A scan""""""

 

[Deagonx]

I dont think Dc cosmos and it's top tier characters have justifications for some of their tiers.

Generally speaking, this is true. However fans of various franchises are often the strongest voice within discussions about that franchise, which results in a lot of bias towards overrating the characters.

Also The endless are established on this wiki to be baseline 1A, yet Lucifer doesnt transcend them in power at least not death of the endless

Dream referred to Lucifer as the strongest being in existence besides the Presence, and far stronger than Dream himself. Since Dream is obviously familiar with Death (and the rest of the Endless), this is very strong evidence that Lucifer is more powerful than Death

The Presence's Avatar also doesnt have justifications for being above baseline 1A.

I'm not aware of any evidence that the Presence has an "avatar."

Characters Like Dax Novu and Cas conceptual halves of the overvoid

To be clear, this description of CAS is pure headcanon, and the description for Dax is outdated/retconned, and even originally was spoken by someone who is not an authority on the matter.

4) It's ficitonal-reality transcendence is still just a baseline transcendence and so is not a justification for high 1A.

None of them have R>F Transcendence. Perpetua's storyline clearly demonstrates that she does not perceive the multiverse as fictional.

CAS and Mandrakk also existed in the Overvoid. However that’s not the justification on their page for some reason.

Existing in the Overvoid isn't a justification of any power level, it's never been explained in clear terms how powerful one needs to be to exist there.

 

[Fitz_100]

This isnt a scan for 1A endless is it? If anything "Wave functions" as used to describe the endless shows how very much all of them are tied to physics.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This isnt a scan for 1A endless is it? If anything "Wave functions" as used to describe the endless shows how very much all of them are tied to physics.

Like I said it relies heavily on the cosmology actually being 1-A.

 

[Fitz_100]

Generally speaking, this is true. However fans of various franchises are often the strongest voice within discussions about that franchise, which results in a lot of bias towards overrating the characters.

Yeah that's one of the problems

Dream referred to Lucifer as the strongest being in existence besides the Presence, and far stronger than Dream himself. Since Dream is obviously familiar with Death (and the rest of the Endless), this is very strong evidence that Lucifer is more powerful than Death

Well if we take Dream words for it then yeah, but that cannot be true considering the number of characters established to be more powerful than Lucy

I'm not aware of any evidence that the Presence has an "avatar."

In his page it was explained

To be clear, this description of CAS is pure headcanon, and the description for Dax is outdated/retconned, and even originally was spoken by someone who is not an authority on the matter.

It is not headcanon it is clearly stated in his profile on this wiki, and prolly the statements might be wrong but that is why the revision should be done

None of them have R>F Transcendence. Perpetua's storyline clearly demonstrates that she does not perceive the multiverse as fictional.

Never said the 6th dimension has such transcendence, however it's been established the overvoid does have such R>F transcendence, but this could just be it transcending other stories below it.

Existing in the Overvoid isn't a justification of any power level, it's never been explained in clear terms how powerful one needs to be to exist there.

Isnt this also used as one of the justification for Lucy's 1A tier, i think it's very wrong though.

 

[Fitz_100]

Like I said it relies heavily on the cosmology actually being 1-A.

Well yeah it does, but we know the creation in question is High 1B. I mean if we take the fact that the dc multiverse has infinite higher dimensions which honestly could meam different things, like alternate dimensions, realities or planes of existence.

However it is, it doesnt place the multiverse anywhere close to 1A, however the greater cosmology outside the multiverse sure has justification for being 1A

 

[Deagonx]

Well if we take Dream words for it then yeah, but that cannot be true considering the number of characters established to be more powerful than Lucy

Dream might not know of them, or they didn't exist when that line was written.

It is not headcanon it is clearly stated in his profile on this wiki

The profile is wrong.

however it's been established the overvoid does have such R>F transcendence,

It does not, that notion is based entirely on speculation and non-canon sources

 

[Fitz_100]

Dream might not know of them, or they didn't exist when that line was written.

That he doesn't know them means he is unreliable even for the most he knows of

The profile is wrong.

Oh yeah?

It does not, that notion is based entirely on speculation and non-canon sources

I dont think the R>F statement should even matter since he has that for the multiverse/stories drawn on it to the writer, i mean that is basically how transcendence works, transcending a multiverse of infinite dimensions doesnt qualify as 1A also.

 

[Deagonx]

That he doesn't know them means he is unreliable even for the most he knows of

Why would not knowing about other beings make his comment about Death unreliable? That makes no sense whatsoever.

Oh yeah?

There's no scan indicating CAS is the "good" half of the Overvoid or anything like that.

since he has that for the multiverse/stories drawn on it to the writer,

This is incoherent.

 

[Fitz_100]

When the DC Cosmology revision comes out:

noticed that alot on the Wiki.

 

[Fitz_100]

Why would not knowing about other beings make his comment about Death unreliable?

Technically his statement wasnt directly abt death, I mean he was also aware of their parents whom are literally above even the presence or his avatar however it is on this wiki, i think his statement was an exaggeration driven by fear.
Just like other characters describing an overly powerful character as Omnipotent.

There's no scan indicating CAS is the "good" half of the Overvoid or anything like that.

This really makes sense.

This is incoherent.

How so?

 

[Westcoast5005]

You know people keep on bringing the presence avatar when he has never used one.

 

[Fitz_100]

You know people keep on bringing the presence avatar when he has never used one.

Well this could be true as i personally don't think he has an avatar too, but i think need for that came up when Morrison equated the presence, the source and Overvoid which can only resolved if there was an avatar version and a much more powerful version.

But it's still on this same wiki that Writer's statement are taken as second source of facts and is now being used as the only justification for presence having an avatar.

 

[Westcoast5005]

People took Morrison statement the wrong way.

 

[Fitz_100]

People took Morrison statement the wrong way.

I doubt they did, that's the literal interpretation if we ignore on panel feats and stories, but since we cant and also the fans dont want to ignore Morrison's statements so they had to make Presence an avatar to compensate for the contradiction.

But what's ur take on Morrison's explanation

 

[Westcoast5005]

While reading it interpreted that Morrison was talking about the concept of god in DC and when he mentions the overvoid the presence he didn't mean they were the same being just how god is represented in DC but hey I might be wrong.

 

[Fitz_100]

when he mentions the overvoid the presence he didn't mean they were the same being just how god is represented in DC

Do u mind elaborating this further
Am not entirely sure where u going with this but i think i have a hunch , i would like u to explain completely.

 

[Deagonx]

I mean he was also aware of their parents whom are literally above even the presence or his avatar however it is on this wiki, i think his statement was an exaggeration driven by fear.

His parents didn't exist in DC when that line was written, and Father Time/Mother Night are not remotely above the Presence.

How so?

As an English sentence, I can't understand it.

 

[Fitz_100]

His parents didn't exist in DC when that line was written,

Well in that case....

and Father Time/Mother Night are not remotely above the Presence.

I would argue that is false....like i said the avatar of the presence isnt nearly as powerful as either of those two, and i think this wiki explained that much.

As an English sentence, I can't understand it.

Hmmm