DC Comics - 8-C Batman

[Transcending]

We can start with this, a weakened Nightwing with his ankle broken lifts up a really massive boulder

https://i.imgur.com/OkspPcK_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

 

[Chariot190]

For LS.

Lifting an object.
Pushing an object.
Throwing an object.
Pulling an object.
Bending objects (Such as steel rods, prison bars, any tough substance, etc).
Tearing or breaking objects (For example, tearing a chain in half breaking it, ripping off a steel bar, etc, or any other hard substance).
Crushing (For example, Batman picks up a rock, and crushes it in his grip).
Jumping (High or long leaps can be calculated, though they don't get good results unless it's quite a bit, someone like Batman would have to leap a few stories to get Class 5).
Swing an object (For example, think Link from TP, where he can swing a heavy ball and chain, the swinging motion can be factored in, if the spin is fast enough you can get wacky results, the same applies for other things, like imagine Batman swings a 100kg weight at someone at FTE speeds, you could calc the force on that and get like Class 5-10 or something).
Stopping something (For example, Star Platinum from JoJo or Spiderman both have feats where they catch cars, trains, etc, decelerating them in mere moments, you can calculate things like that, basically calculating the force they apply/endure to halt the momentum, can get really good results).
Wacky reverse PE stuff (Like for example say there's this super heavy dense object, they drop it, it smashes the ground, We can calculate the mass of that supposed drop. or say they get effected by amped gravity that makes them so heavy that they sink into the ground with every step, we can do that too, etc).
Catching objects (Not unlike stopping or throwing but the opposite).
That's off the top of my head.

There's many ways to get LS, some more straightforward than others, anything that falls under those will be helpful, though comic as a medium might complicate a few methods, most should be good still.

 

[Chariot190]

We can start with this, a weakened Nightwing with his ankle broken lifts up a really massive boulder

https://i.imgur.com/OkspPcK_d.webp?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

Do you know the issue? Or have better shots of the stone structure? I have Nightwing's pixels done, but that object is falling on a slant, a image of it straight up would be best.
Though atm I'm getting some pretty high numbers on the thing's mass, like 30+ tons easy. Though he's also not straight up benching it and merely stopping it from falling, and he does say it's actually normally way beyond him and he does break his ankles doing it...

 

[Transcending]

30+ tons

Yeah when I calced it like months ago I got the same values.

I don't have the issue atm but I can get back to you with it tomorrow. About it being far above him, I think we can still use it as a "At most" value?

 

[Transcending]

Also the OP went through some large updates. I request everyone to check it.

 

[Antvasima]

Also the OP went through some large updates. I request everyone to check it.

I have done so.

 

[KLOL506]

In terms of what we should do while waiting, speed feats tend to be a tad complex and can be subject to lots of issues if we aren't careful, which is why I suggest Lifting Strength feats can be looked at just as a quick something to do, given calcing things like breaking chains, bending steel or just lifting big objects are quite easy (Slade lifts a slab of debris in the school feat for example) and this Batman in particular doesn't even have a LS listed. It isn't even a case of upgrade or downgrade, he actually needs one still. I'd even say doing that is even more important than the AP feats. Though we could just make a different thread for that as to not clutter this one.

I saw Bruce wrestling with alligators in one of the issues linked to the submarine bomb feat. That's a good place to start.

 

[Chariot190]

As for other info, for Owlman, when Batman is escaping we see him next to the window panes and they're huge, that could be a more reliable method so I'll add those ends in a bit, also, the tower itself might be a incarnation of Wayne Tower if I read that arc right? If so that's usually 1000ft tall, which we can also work with and might be the best bet actually as that'd be extremely easy to do and wouldn't really be that presumptuous, it'd also end up being probably 8-C, I'll add those methods when I have time, both will net really good yields as well as being probably the more direct methods.

In the mean time, post any LS feats ya got, I grabbed these from threads. Might have forgot some dudes tho (Joker, Harvey, Scare and Tim didn't have any, Ra's didn't have a new 52/Rebirth thread at all).
Bane
Bane lifts a decent boulder, tosses it.
Bane lifts an even bigger one with one hand.
Bane leaps a few stories.
Tosses object hard enough to shatter a head
Bane snaps gun, also breaks free of ice
Bane bends and rips steel bars (Should be Class K?)
Bends steel, rips out metal door
Crushes hydrant
Lifts concrete slab
Rips out toilet (no venom)
Tosses weights hard enough to shatter concrete (no venom)
Rips off door, dents it in his grip
Breaks free from over 2000lbs of ice pressing in on him (same ice feat as above but alone, gives values, Class 5 feat)
Bane can bench 15 tons (Might actually be a anti-statement, some of his feats higher than this)
Venom Goon could rip a Man-Bat wing off (Ripping arms off were class 25 last I checked).
Rips a head off a Talon
Croc
Teen Croc can wrestle gators
Can bench a school bus
Crushes a head
Dismembers demons
Bites a sword in half
Lands on his feet after a few hundred foot fall (Armor did a calc like that awhile back, we can use that method)
Jason
Breaks Talon's neck (Though he uses the good ol hold)
Lifts up a roof of a collapsing building (Might be a priority calc given Batman scales directly I think)
Lifts up a rocket (With help, though he seems to be doing most of the work, even having a rope to himself)
Throws Bane a few meters (Probably Class 5 given Bane already weighs a few hundred kg)
Flips the 600kg Suzie with one hand it looks like? (Straightforward Class 1 feat, would be Class 5 if we double for both arms assuming he used one)
Throws an ayy lmao
leaps through an ice sheet
Calvin
Throws a shark (wtf why?)
Batman
Rips plane door off
Lifts debris
Slows down a speeding car (that's what the doc says?)
Snaps a compromised stone column
Drags small WWII plane
Breaks gun in grip
Mangles gun in grip
Slams Jason into concrete
Rips this in half? (idk what it is, says steel tho)
Tosses a coin like a high cal bullet
Breaks hand cuffs around his legs while injured
Breaks free of metal tendrils
Rips pipe in half
Extremely weakened, breaks metal duct
This
Breaks ice
Tears urinal out of wall and ******* yeets that bad boy across the room shattering it
Batman uses dude as a weapon
Throws robot
Holds open a biting croc's mouth (like, an actual one)
Overpowers mutant
Harvey
Leaping
Man-Bat
Lifts police car
Lifts a falling armored van
????
Nightwing
Acrobatics with a large dude
Rips out windshield
Slade
Tosses screw like a bullet
Snaps sword, rips out chair
Rips out and mangles plane door (Nth)
Breaks bulky cuffs (Nth)
Grips, lifts and slams Batman with chunk of debris (Nth)

From various respect threads, most of these had issues listed so that isn't a problem, we can just add that if we decide to calc any. Anyway, if anyone sees a feat they wanna do, do it I guess, I have a few in mind I wanna do here but I haven't decided which yet.

 

[Transcending]

Batman
Rips plane door off

This takes more than 106757N of force.

 

[Chariot190]

Also found a feat of Dick slamming Batman without armor into the Batmobile and caving it in. That's probably low 9-A, maybe higher given I don't doubt it'd be using some sort of high grade military steel compound or something, which could easily get 9-A+ if not higher depending on how tough of a metal we wanna use, given it's Batman it should be wacky.

This takes more than 106757N of force.

That's 10.886184375 tons of force/m.
Class 25 baseline give or take. Though that's just one feat (Though Slade does that too, so we can say that's two 10 ton feats), LS can be subject to wild results too.

 

[Hellbeast]

Then all there's left is for the calcs to be evaluated. Should we discuss Post-Crisis ratings or Batman's speed in the meantime?

I think speed should be another thread, same with Pc

 

[Transcending]

I think speed should be another thread, same with Pc

I am remaking PC. Maybe I can upgrade in that file?

 

[Hellbeast]

Maybe

as for LS I’d note Bane can rip Talons in half and I’ve always wondered what that yields (I assume Class K)

 

[Transcending]

I think speed should be another thread

Hmm, though we also need to figure out what we will upgrade the speed to.

 

[Hellbeast]

I feel we should do the revisions piece by piece to avoid overload

maybe Part 2 is speed

as for LS I’d suggest calcing that time Bane just yeets huge eagle heads in The Arkham War epilogue. Considering the size of them and assuming they’re steel you’d get som easy Class K results

 

[Transcending]

Also found a feat of Dick slamming Batman without armor into the Batmobile and caving it in. That's probably low 9-A, maybe higher given I don't doubt it'd be using some sort of high grade military steel compound or something, which could easily get 9-A+ if not higher depending on how tough of a metal we wanna use, given it's Batman it should be wacky.

That's 10.886184375 tons of force/m.
Class 25 baseline give or take. Though that's just one feat (Though Slade does that too, so we can say that's two 10 ton feats), LS can be subject to wild results too.

Here's a third 10 ton feat

 

[Transcending]

Do you know the issue?

Found it, it's from Nightwing(2016) #19

 

[Transcending]

Grips, lifts and slams Batman with chunk of debris (Nth)

Well I tried calcing this.

Deathstroke's head is 34.04 pixels high. 0.23/34.04= 0.006756756756756757

Width= 312.74*0.006756756756756757=2.1131081081081082
Length= 218.41*0.006756756756756757=1.4757432432432434
Height= 39.90*0.006756756756756757=0.2695945945945946

Volume= 0.2695945945945946*1.4757432432432434*2.1131081081081082= 0.840705135202999m^3

Assuming the structure is granite, which has a density of 2.75g/cc, you will get a mass of 2.5484766441377750823 tons

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given the long list of scans above, only the feats that give the highest values should preferably be calculated.

 

[Transcending]

Also about AP, we already have like 10 Small Building feats so we can skip Captain Boomerang if necessary. We need to evaluate the tower feat tho

 

[Transcending]

Killer Croc can lift a school bus which can weigh between 14500 pounds to a 36000 pounds. That's between 7.25 to 18 tons. Wow

Slows down a speeding car (that's what the doc says?)

One of my friends made a large post calcing a lot of Batman's feats months ago and this is what he said about this feat there:

Stops a 2,500 lb car (lowball) at 30 mph (lowball) for 2 feet, judging by the skid marks near his feet. 334,000 newtons, 34,000 kg of of force.

That's like 34 tons.

Holds open a biting croc's mouth (like, an actual one)

That's 1.678452887 tons.

 

[Chariot190]

Here's a third 10 ton feat

Nah, was done with a kick, aka striking strength. We can't count those.

 

[Transcending]

Nah, was done with a kick, aka striking strength. We can't count those.

Oh alr. So we have two 10 ton feats and some feats near that level

 

[Transcending]

Breaks gun in grip

This is what my friend said:

Finger tips have an area of 0.5 x 0.7 inches. 0.35x5 = 1.75 x 74,000 psi (guns are made of 7075 aluminum) 58,863 kg

That's about 64.8853507 tons

 

[Antvasima]

So what are our best reliable feats to scale from here?

 

[Transcending]

So what are our best reliable feats to scale from here?

I think the aeroplane feats are the best.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay, and what result would that give us?

 

[Transcending]

Okay, and what result would that give us?

Class 25

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems fine to apply then.

Can you link to the feat, I so I can verify with other staff members, please?

 

[Transcending]

Okay. That seems fine to apply then.

Can you link to the feat, I so I can verify with other staff members, please?

 

[Antvasima]

Do you have a blog calculation for this feat as well, and are there other Class 25 feats available for Batman-level characters?

 

[Transcending]

Do you have a blog calculation for this feat as well

No but there's not really much to calc, Batman removed a door off an aeroplane and google says that requires Class 25 lifting strength.

and are there other Class 25 feats available for Batman-level characters?

Yes, Deathstroke did the same thing

Bane was also stated to be able to lift 15 tons on venom

Venom increases Bane's muscle mass by 30%, and 70% of 15 is 10.5

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Would this also support Batman's feat of breaking off an airplane door?

 

[Antvasima]

Do you have a blog calculation for this feat as well, and are there other Class 25 feats available for Batman-level characters?

No but there's not really much to calc, Batman removed a door off an aeroplane and google says that requires Class 25 lifting strength.

Yes, Deathstroke did the same thing

Bane was also stated to be able to lift 15 tons on venom

Venom increases Bane's muscle mass by 30%, and 70% of 15 is 10.5

Okay. That seems fine to add then.

@Firestorm808 @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Armorchompy @Confluctor @LordTracer

Does this seem acceptable to you?

 

[Chariot190]

Do you have a blog calculation for this feat as well, and are there other Class 25 feats available for Batman-level characters?

There's quite a few feats of that caliber, but we just haven't calced them.
But there's also lower feats, and also higher feats (Though they're more from Bane with Venom who I don't think scales 1:1, and Nightwing exerting himself beyond his limits, so both don't quite count).
Though Deathstroke's plane feat also has him mangle the door, which is way more impressive.

No but there's not really much to calc, Batman removed a door off an aeroplane and google says that requires Class 25 lifting strength.


Yes, Deathstroke did the same thing

Bane was also stated to be able to lift 15 tons on venom

Venom increases Bane's muscle mass by 30%, and 70% of 15 is 10.5

I don't think Venom works that way, but if it do, that's actually pretty nice.
For feats that I'd say we should calc tho

Red Hood holding up a collapsing roof (Extremely direct, Batman and him aren't that different)
Slows down a speeding car (that's what the doc says?)
Snaps a compromised stone column (probably an outlier tho)
Drags small WWII plane
Rips pipe in half
Extremely weakened, breaks metal duct
This
Tears urinal out of wall and ******* yeets that bad boy across the room shattering it (This might be insane tbh)
Throws robot
Grips, lifts and slams Batman with chunk of debris (Nth)
That
Are the feats I feel would be good, while also not being blatant outliers like 100 ton Batman or some shit.

That's excluding explicit feats like Red Hood lifting 600kg in one hand (Would make him casually Class 5) or other feats like lifting 1000kg Solomon Grundy and the like.

Would this also support Batman's feat of breaking off an airplane door?

Looks like a tackle, if it is, then sadly no. But if it's a push, it would count yeah. It's hard to tell, good 50/50 on either one. I'd say its support, just not solid support like Slade's feat where he blatantly just rips and tosses it off.

 

[Confluctor]

How many class 25 LS feats exists?

 

[Chariot190]

How many class 25 LS feats exists?

2 (3 if you count Croc lifting a bus, 4 if you count 70% power of Venom Bane) at least, looking at what was gathered and eyeballing it, probably a few more.
Is it the most consistent class tho? I'm not sure, they seem to be super casually Class 5+ tho, and Class 25 is only a few times off that. So it's hard to say if it's just a few outliers or not.

 

[Confluctor]

In that case, I wouldn't mind LS upgrade. Tho a new scaling chain should probably be created from it. Some scaling, some downscaling, etc

 

[Antvasima]

In that case, I wouldn't mind LS upgrade. Tho a new scaling chain should probably be created from it. Some scaling, some downscaling, etc

Agreed.

 

[Transcending]

In that case, I wouldn't mind LS upgrade. Tho a new scaling chain should probably be created from it. Some scaling, some downscaling, etc

Yeah this is fine