DBZ Toei: More Downgrades

[AguilaR202]

this isn’t meant to change ratings so don’t @ me for that

Really if we accepted all SS and Oozaru multipliers of 50x 2x and 4x along with the implied 10x amp of KHHx10, AP would look like this during baby saga and beyond:

Base Goku = 127.5 Zettafoe
SS1 Goku =6.375 Yottafoe
SS3 Goku = 51 Yottafoe
Super Baby 2 = 408 Yottafoe ( SS3 equivalent of someone who stomped SS3 Goku in SS1)
Oozaru Baby = 4.08 Ninafoe ( 10x Oozaru amp over previous power)
SS4 = 4.08 Ninafoe (80x above SS3 Goku to be an equal match to baby since his base power didn’t change)
( initial ) S17 = 408 Yottafoe ( superior to majuub who was around Baby 2 level)
SS1 Goku = 408 Yottafoe
SS4 = 261.12 Ninafoe ( 640x SS1 Goku)
S17= 2.61 Tenafoe ( post KHHx10 absorption)

although there is that bit with SS4 with a KKx10 being unable to harm Rage shenron, Base Nova being above all previous dragons including Rage with Goku matching that in base which implies his base power reached his previous peak as a SS4

Base Goku = 2.61 Tenafoe
SS4 Goku = 83.55 TenaKilofoe (32,000x base Goku)

That would still be literally trillions of times below the current 3-A value for Omega.

and really that’s the farthest you can realistically take it because by the end of the Shadow Dragon Saga it makes more sense to scale UFPSS4 Goku and SS4 Vegeta to
1/10th of Omegas 3-A AP.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

What's up with the distinction between FP SSJ4 and SSJ4? FP SSJ4 is literally just stamina restored SSJ4.

Return me to FP SSJ4 once again

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Most media tends to treat them as separate but related things. It's strange.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

It's typically used in reference to Shadow Dragons Arc SSJ4 Goku for the games (which is the only place I remember that phrase), but even then it feels redundant since even there it was just described as his full power and it's basically just a stamina restoration instead of an amp or boost or new form.

Frieza (Dragon Ball Z)

Frieza (フリーザ, Furīza?) is the leader of the Frieza Force and the son of King Cold, who, unopposed, ruled over the majority of the Seventh Universe for decades. Thanks to his mutant and hybrid status, Frieza was born with an abnormally high-power level. He never needed to train a day in his life...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Comparing it to the wording on Frieza's profile:

At least 4-C I At least Star level with 100% of his power

"FP SSJ4" is the exact same concept as 100% Frieza. I think it makes more sense to reword Shadow Dragon Saga Goku to "At least 3-A I At least Universe level with his full power."

 

[Eseseso]

1. From what I can tell, when Trunks, Gohan, Goten, and Pan gave him their energy, it let him break his limits and made his SSJ4 form stronger.

The name "Super Full Power Saiyan 4" is just what I got from Dragon Ball wiki.

2. While SSJ3 being a 4x multiplier honestly makes sense, since he was equal with people who SSJ2 people were far inferior to and could only slightly hurt (like Kid Buu and Majin Buu), SSJ2 is way above a 2x multiplier, since Cell holding back significantly was superior to FPSSJ Gohan, yet SSJ2 Gohan roflstomped 100% Perfect Cell.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

If Oozaru is accepted as x10 x500 Base can be used as a lowball for Ssj4 i think

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

The name "Super Full Power Saiyan 4" is just what I got from Dragon Ball wiki.

Weirdly enough that is it's official name in official media.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

It's typically used in reference to Shadow Dragons Arc SSJ4 Goku for the games (which is the only place I remember that phrase), but even then it feels redundant since even there it was just described as his full power and it's basically just a stamina restoration instead of an amp or boost or new form.

I have to disagree here, it's pretty clearly treated to be stronger. The title of the episode is "Commence counterattack. Surpass Super Saiyan 4!" This alone wouldn't mean too much, but later in the episode it's stated he took his max power and extended it further, that he had powered up beyond his limits, and that from absorbing their energy, he had surpassed SSJ4. For the Baby Saga moment, I'd have to check the episode, but I don't recall explicit statements like these.

 

[SSJGeminiJJ]

I have to disagree here, it's pretty clearly treated to be stronger. The title of the episode is "Commence counterattack. Surpass Super Saiyan 4!" This alone wouldn't mean too much, but later in the episode it's stated he took his max power and extended it further, that he had powered up beyond his limits, and that from absorbing their energy, he had surpassed SSJ4. For the Baby Saga moment, I'd have to check the episode, but I don't recall explicit statements like these.

But that’s still just his own power level (even Goten in that scene says he took it farther of his own accord, not because of any amp since it’s been described as just a stamina restoration).

 

[BlastX]

Basically the FPSS4 from the Baby saga is actually SS4 at full power while the one from the Shadow Dragons is a true Limit Break.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

But that’s still just his own power level (even Goten in that scene says he took it farther of his own accord, not because of any amp since it’s been described as just a stamina restoration).

I don't think you can see it as it just being in reference to him becoming stronger. Two of the scans say "surpass Super Saiyan 4" verbatim, and while the Goten scan says "he", I don't think that's really counterevidence. He extended it by taking the other's power, so that still counts as him doing it, like how Goku beating an enemy with the Genki-Dama is still him defeating them, even though he's taking other's energy. While it is for sure stamina restoration as well, I don't think that's mutually exclusive with him also getting a stronger form.

The one in the Baby Saga being just stamina restoration is fine with me though, I can't find anything for that being an actual amp.

 

[AguilaR202]

FPSS4 = 100% of the power of SS4 as seen in the baby arc

UFPSS4 = Base Goku getting the cumulative
power of three SS1s and then going SS4

 

[ByAsura]

I think it's exponential, based on Baby using it to empower himself.

 

[Eseseso]

I think it's exponential, based on Baby using it to empower himself.

Would you be able to open Vegeta's GT profile?

I think I know how his keys would look.


Baby Saga: 2.55 zettafoe in Base, and 127.5 zettafoe with SSJ transformations

Super 17/Shadow Dragon Saga: 1.181 yottafoe in Base, 59 yottafoe in SSJ1/2, and 2.69x Baseline 3-A in SSJ4 (since his SSJ4 is portrayed as on par with Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku)

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[ByAsura]

For some reason, I didn't get the Vegeta notification.

You still want it unlocked?

 

[Eseseso]

For some reason, I didn't get the Vegeta notification.

You still want it unlocked?

Yes

 

[ByAsura]

it's been unlocked

 

[ByAsura]

I've relocked it. I'm going to bed.

 

[Eseseso]

I've relocked it. I'm going to bed.

Dude, I didn't make any edits.

Please re-unlock it when you get the chance.

 

[ByAsura]

I know you didn't make edits. I just wouldn't be able to close it afterwards.

Anyway, I'll reopen it again when you're online.

 

[ByAsura]

Do you want the profile unlocked now?

 

[Eseseso]

Do you want the profile unlocked now?

I won't be able to edit it until the weekend

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[Vizer04]

Bump

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

Bump

 

[ByAsura]

I won't be able to edit it until the weekend

Are you able to edit it now?

 

[Eseseso]

Are you able to edit it now?

Yep.

Sorry for not saying so sooner.

 

[ByAsura]

I've unlocked it.

 

[Eseseso]

I've unlocked it.

Done

 

[Vizer04]

Is there anything else that needs to be done on this thread?

 

[Eseseso]

Is there anything else that needs to be done on thsi thread?

Discuss Pan scaling?

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

Make the following changes to these profiles?
Ledgic 4-A
General Rilldo 4-A | 4-A | 4-A
Hell Fighter 17 3-C
Syn Shenron 3-A for his first key
Nuova Shenron 3-A for his second and third key

 

[Eseseso]

Make the following changes to these profiles?
Ledgic 4-A
General Rilldo 4-A | 4-A | 4-A
Hell Fighter 17 3-C
Syn Shenron 3-A for his first key
Nuova Shenron 3-A for his second and third key

Pan's 4-A justification should scale to hurting Rilldo somewhat and Trunks saying she could possibly be above him.

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

Pan's 4-A justification should scale to hurting Rilldo somewhat and Trunks saying she could possibly be above him.

Agreed, also later on in the series during the Shadow Dragon Arc, she contributed to defeating Oceanus Shenron. So maybe give her key splits for her profile?
Almost forgot Oceanus Shenron also needs to be downgraded to 3-C.

 

[Vizer04]

Bump?

 

[TimeTrapperFanBoy]

Bump

 

[ByAsura]

What's going on here? Are there profiles that need to be unlocked?

 

[Eseseso]

What's going on here? Are there profiles that need to be unlocked?

Would it be possible to open Pan's profile to change her 4-A justifications?

Her current one (stomping Gero) isn't 4-A at all and she has much stronger 4-A stuff.

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, tell me when you're ready.