DBZ Speed CRT

[Zamasu_Chan]

I made the speed scaling. It goes it to the Frieza saga because no numbers. If the blog needs to be updated for the sake of the CRT, I'll do that. Just give me time.

Continued from here.

 

[Arcker123]

FTL saiyan saga seems reasonable.

 

[KLOL506]

FINALLY. MFTL Frieza Saga DBZ.

Also, someone notify DDM of this, I think he was supposed to update his blog with the new speeds too.

And yes, this will visibly affect the Toeiverse Saiyan Saga as well.

 

[sanicspood]

this shouldve been a thing a long time ago

 

[Slacjow]

I personally don't agree with 200x increase in speed solely on miltiplying a single feat without supporting feats in between.

 

[Lollipop_The_King]

Contrarian.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

While I'm pretty sure Goku saying he can "handle a 10x Kaio-ken" simply means his body has become strong enough to use it without breaking down completely, there is that one statement from the back of the manga volumes stating that both his strength and speed had increased ten-fold after training in the Gravity Machine, which also coincides with Goku going from 8,000 to 80,000.

If that's the case, and Goku really is ten-times as fast as he was in the Saiyan Saga, Post-Zenkai Goku would be 152.8c in base, since a hypothetical Kaio-ken x20 Post-Gravity Machine Goku is only 1,600,000 compared to Post-Zenkai Goku's 3,000,000. But, I think we only scale characters to stuff that has been shown, so instead of scaling him to a hypothetical KKx20PGMG, we scale him to regular KKPGMG, which is 15.28c.

 

[AKM sama]

I personally don't agree with 200x increase in speed solely on miltiplying a single feat without supporting feats in between.

This personally. I am fine with applying the kaioken multipliers used in the saiyan saga and those results in particular look okay. But am uneasy about the later massive increases in the freeza saga with no feats to support it.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Seems like a perfectly reasonable conservative estimate for scaling their speed. The multipliers are official and explicitly linked to speed as well via kaioken, so its fine to use.

Edit: As for the Kaioken X10 scaling as his base being 10X stronger, it seems to be substantiated by the official synopsis of the manga as well, where it says Gokus "strength and speed increased ten fold" on the way to Namek.



This is also consistent with his power level to in base which went from over 8,000 to 90,000, which is again indicative of a 10 fold increase, and we know power level also multiples alongside Kaioken when they are shown side by side.

So I feel there is significant proof to substantiate the claim that his strength and speed are ten times greater in base upon arriving on Namek, than they were in the Saiyan saga. And nothing to really contradict it either given he is blitzing and one shoting superior fighters like the Ginyu force upon arrival, who would stomp his old KaiokenX4 form.

*Maybe just add the synopsis and PL reasoning as further substantiating proof in the blog?

 

[KLOL506]

In that case the multipliers should be fine to use, since it's from the official source material itself.

 

[DivineAura44]

In that case the multipliers should be fine to use, since it's from the official source material itself.

SSJ Multipliers: Am I a joke to you?

 

[KLOL506]

SSJ Multipliers: Am I a joke to you?

You do realize that we accept the early Frieza Saga SSJ1 multiplier tho, right?

 

[KLOL506]

Also I'm still keen on waiting for DDM's take on this, he did say that he was eventually gonna edit his blog to reflect on the new calc.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

The statement about Goku becoming ten-times as powerful and as fast falls right into accepted Multipliers territory.

The statements a multiplier is based on must always be reliable.

As established above, the statement about Goku's speed increase comes from the official synopsis of the current story on the back of the manga volume.

However, a good statement alone is not enough to get a high multiplier accepted. The amount of extra evidence one has to provide to get larger multipliers accepted is proportional to the size of the multiplier. For lower multipliers, like things much less than times 100, evidence can take the form of a clear increase in combat strength against priorly equal or superior opponents.

The statement is supported by a lot, in-universe:

• In DBZ 57, Goku states that he needs to train and strengthen his body in order to handle a multiple-fold Kaio-ken.
• In DBZ 76, it's reiterated numerous times that Goku's strength has increased so greatly that he has pushed beyond his former limitations and beyond the limits of the Saiyan race, to the point he shocks himself with his speed at normal gravity, having adapted from 10g on King Kai's planet up to 100g, and believes he can handle a ten-fold Kaio-ken. The original Japanese is way more literal, with Goku stating he can withstand a 10x Kaio-ken.
• His Power Level increased from 8,000 to 80,000.
• Goku is shown taking out opponents who far surpass his Saiyan Saga self with relative ease, effortlessly one-shotting Recoome, speedblitzing and bullying both Jeice and Burter, and contending with a suppressed Captain Ginyu in his base form.

Lastly, multipliers will obviously only be used if they are not contradicted. A typical case of that would be if a character gets 10 times stronger, but fighters that were previously equal to it can still somehow keep up.

Nobody aside from Captain Ginyu, who had a maximum Power Level of 120,000, could even touch Goku at the time.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Oh, one other small change should be made to. Technically Burter, Jeice and Recoome are superior to KaiokenX4 Goku from Saiyan saga, ie they have a superior power level which translates to an indeterminate amount stronger and faster.

Vegeta even says Recoome will kill him and is treating him like an infant post Zarbon Zenkai.

 

[DivineAura44]

His Power Level increased from 8,000 to 80,000.

Am I the only one who remembers 90,000? Just me?

 

[DivineAura44]

You do realize that we accept the early Frieza Saga SSJ1 multiplier tho, right?

And despite no one telling me the reason for the SSJ Multipliers being unacceptable, only that.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Still don't know why we don't simply use the 50x multiplier over the wiki's made up 40x multiplier, but whatever.

 

[KLOL506]

And despite no one telling me the reason for the SSJ Multipliers being unacceptable, only that.

Basically anything after the Androids Saga multipliers become too unpredictably wack

 

[DivineAura44]

Cuz Akira Toriyama said he doesn't think it should be that high despite 40x literally making it even. He said I think. Bro it's hard-core excuse tbh.

 

[DivineAura44]

Basically anything after the Androids Saga multipliers become too unpredictably wack

How? I've never heard of SSJ3 arguments and I debunked the SSJ2 one myself here

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Oh yeah, forgot to debunk that.

 

[DivineAura44]

Go ahead.

 

[DivineAura44]

Make sure you do it on mine tho. Don't wanna flood this section.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

Huh, didn't know that anything before the android saga was allowed, if that's the case, I agree with this

 

[SSJRyu1]

Was it agreed that we can use the SSJ multiplier for Frieza arc Goku? It is accurate so I'm good with that, but I wasn't aware the wiki accepts it now. If we multiply base Namek Goku by the official 50x then SSJ Goku should be 382c, 305.6 if we use 40x. Honestly using the official multiplier makes more sense tbf, and is consistent with 50% Frieza being somewhat above Kaioken x20 Goku using kamehameha, then SSJ Goku blitzing and manhandling him, yet being only slightly above 100% Frieza.

 

[DivineAura44]

Was it agreed that we can use the SSJ multiplier for Frieza arc Goku? It is accurate so I'm good with that, but I wasn't aware the wiki accepts it now. If we multiply base Namek Goku by the official 50x then SSJ Goku should be 382c, 305.6 if we use 40x. Honestly using the official multiplier makes more sense tbf, and is consistent with 50% Frieza being somewhat above Kaioken x20 Goku using kamehameha, then SSJ Goku blitzing and manhandling him, yet being only slightly above 100% Frieza.

They don't like DBZ around here. They had one argument I've seen so far for SSJ Multipliers not working and I dismantled it. Most people say I'm not even that good of a debater, hell a bad one. So for this to happen right here??? Sad.

 

[Ned_the_outer_god]

They don't like DBZ around here. They had one argument I've seen so far for SSJ Multipliers not working and I dismantled it. Most people say I'm not even that good of a debater, hell a bad one. So for this to happen right here??? Sad.

That kind of attitude about the wiki here is the type that can get you banned, so I highly don't recommend it

 

[DivineAura44]

That kind of attitude about the wiki here is the type that can get you banned, so I highly don't recommend it

For stating that people don't like a series? Harsh. I'll play it cool. Until y'all scale Bleach to house level. (Then im not gonna lie I might conspire.)

 

[DivineAura44]

They don't like DBZ around here. They had one argument I've seen so far for SSJ Multipliers not working and I dismantled it. Most people say I'm not even that good of a debater, hell a bad one. So for this to happen right here??? Sad.

Oh, for calling it sad, I see my fault.

 

[KLOL506]

Was it agreed that we can use the SSJ multiplier for Frieza arc Goku? It is accurate so I'm good with that, but I wasn't aware the wiki accepts it now. If we multiply base Namek Goku by the official 50x then SSJ Goku should be 382c, 305.6 if we use 40x. Honestly using the official multiplier makes more sense tbf, and is consistent with 50% Frieza being somewhat above Kaioken x20 Goku using kamehameha, then SSJ Goku blitzing and manhandling him, yet being only slightly above 100% Frieza.

IIRC that was the consensus, yes.

 

[SSJRyu1]

Do we know if it's 40 or 50 multiplier they accepted for SSJ? We should apply that to SSJ Goku in the blog either way instead of just 20X kaioken.

Jeice, Burter and Recoome should also scale above Kaioken x4 Goku to as a tweak to the blog.

Other than those tweaks I think it seems accurate, and there is sufficient substantiating proof for the revision.

 

[DivineAura44]

They accepted I think over 40x. So they scale it to 40x iirc.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

It should be 50 considering 50% Frieza > Kaioken x20 and SSJ > 100% Frieza.

 

[DivineAura44]

A lot of people agree with this but wiki rules are wiki rules.

 

[SSJRyu1]

I agree 50x makes the most sense since it is consistent with the showings of Goku and Frieza, and the actual official multiplier, not a made up one. But even if they choose to fall back to 40x its worth applying it imo. However if its a vote for which one to use I go with 50.

 

[Axxtentacle]

It should be 50x. The only reason it wouldn’t be 50x is because someone doesn’t want it to be that high.

 

[DivineAura44]

Akira namely.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Death of the Author.

 

[GuildZero]

I completely agree with this