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DBX/DBH timelines

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Applying RL to fiction in order to ignore what is said directly in the fiction is wrong, like ftl stuff. Even if I agreed with that interpritation of there being no possible way for a infinte multiverse by splits, which I don't, lots of things in fiction don't line up perfectly with RL, look at Noein which follows the same principles of a spliting multiverse from events, over a finite time, and is 2-A since it is said to be infite anyway, like this is.
 
The problem is your trying to say countless contradicts not finite, but it doesnt, since infinte is technically not countable, and therefore even though not all countless things are infinite, infinte itself is still countless.
 
EIther way I got an early mornig and tests to prep for so not going to debate this further for a while.
 
Well when 2-A is literally infinite universes, and we differentiate between countable and uncountable infinites (always have), we can't just bend the qualifications for the tier just so DBH/DBX can be 2-A.
 
Sera EX said:
Well when 2-A is literally infinite universes, and we differentiate between countable and uncountable infinites (always have), we can't just bend the qualifications for the tier just so DBH/DBX can be 2-A.
Click to expand...
Oh of course not just for DB.

My point was more in general, but im not trying to change any tier qualifcations for the site either way.
 
SSJRyu1 said:
The problem is your trying to say countless contradicts not finite, but it doesnt, since infinte is technically not countable, and therefore even though not all countless things are infinite, infinte itself is still countless.
Click to expand...

Infinities can be counted though,

Countless things can can be infinitely uncountable.


A single Universe can have an infinite variation of itself, across an infinite number of timelimes and dimensions.

2 Univeese can have 2 infinite variation of itself, across an infinite number of timelimes and dimensions.


Countless Universes can have Countless variation of itself. Across an infinite number of possible realities.


You can give it as a Variable of Alpehm null, 1,2 or X for uncountable but they would all be a degree of infinite.

All three of these would always fall under the same 2-A tier classification.


I don't see a reason why after the infinite history dlc why DBX doesn't get infinite multiverse upgrade. When lesser Verses like Umineko get away with far more ambiguous statements.
 
Umimeko does not get away from ambiguous statements and it's going under mass revisions from one of our most knowledgeable members, Azathoth.
 
Well so far the conclusion is that there is no solid/concrete statement of DBX having Infinite Universes. They do have stuffs of the universes being Countless which is High end 2-B but not a clear statement of having Infinite Universes/Worlds/Dimensions aka 2-A.
 
Countless means too many to be counted.

Non-finite is just another word for infinite.

If the statement only had the word "countless" in it, then it would have been 2-B. But this statement also includes "not finite" and an infnite amount of something is also too many to be counted aka countless. I don't see how there is a contradiction here.
 
It says history is not finite. I already debunked why history =/= multiverse, because it implies the multiverse was formed by countless events. It was not. This is why people still try to downgrade DB now. Because Xenoverse and Super are telling us the twelve universes all share the same history and it's that history being split into countless possibilities.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
They never say infinite universes or timelines. They say infinite possibilities/history.
Click to expand...

Possibility = possibile realities which equals to Multiverse


So infinite possibilities does mean infinite realities.
 
This argument is going around in circles, people here are trying to redefine what history means. Even when it is clear Xenoverse goes wat beyond history to the realms of infinite possible realities with different history. Separate from current history but at the same time connect like a ....metaverse.
 
I say it's better to wait for the Switch Heroes game where that could be addressed and explained more.
 

Possibility = possibile realities which equals to Multiverse


So infinite possibilities does mean infinite realities.

Possibility does not mean it exists, which means it's not infinite.
 
In Heroes Chronoa said "The possibilities are overflowing", and we saw different characters from different timelines, implying the "possibilities" are already existent timelines
 
@Sera EX Just saying countable infinity qualifies for 2-A according to the tier page, uncountable if High 2-A. So even at countable infinity it qualifies technically.
 
Most of the "debunks" aren't even debunks furthermore

So far I've seen

"History doesn't mean the past" ~ Every single source on the internet refers to it as the past. Find me one English professor or anyone with basic knowledge who says it doesn't mean the past. I'm in history class right now, what, are we supposed to be learning about the future or the present? lmao.

"Non-finite doesn't mean infinite". Something is either infinite or finite. There is no middle ground.

" There is no way history can be infinite"

Time patroller said history has no end, Fu said history has no end, the DLC guide said there's an infinite history

"History doesn't refer to other timelines/the multiverse"

Trunks said history splits into different scrolls, and he refers to the scrolls as timelines in the first misson in xenoverse. In DLC 6, one of parallel quests says "multiversal melee. warriors from all throughout history!" and we get people from different timelines fighting

Seriously. There hasn't been a single debunk that doesn't throw logic and common sense out the window.
 
Shadow, you've ben sayng the same thing over and over again. Prove that infinite history, infinite possibiltiies doesn't mean timelines. I gave proof above it does.

Furthermore, you aren't refuting anything me or Ryu are saying. You're just ignoring the argument.
 
Zenkaibattery1 said:
In Heroes Chronoa said "The possibilities are overflowing", and we saw different characters from different timelines, implying the "possibilities" are already existent timelines
Click to expand...
And? We already know multiple timelines exist, that is nothing new.

It does not mean that all those "infinite possibilities" already exist as timelines, as those timelines are created whenever someone time travels. It's a finite multiverse that is constantly expanding, but it can never reach 2-A.
 
All those possibilities does exist a a timeline.


Example being Black's timeline and the possibility of Beerus not erasing Zamasu. This means both possibility of an outcome, event occures or not occures exists, for every possible choice.

When Beerus eased Zamasu it created a Multiverse where Beerus didn't erase Zamasu.

And that timeline exists even though no action was performed at all and no one used Time travel.


The Black had to find a timeline with the possibility of Beerus not existing to escape Beerus's destruction.

When Beerus erased Zamasu, he was erased from all possible future multiverse with the exception of the two possibilities where Beerus didn't exist.


Possibility are timelines which are multiple Universes consisting of multiple parallel dimensions of each Universes.


Interms of Quantum physics since all possibilities exists then all possible timelines any single objects exists.


Stonwalling DB when so many other verses get a free pass is pretty hippocritical. Xenoverse has constantly hammered us that here is not limits to the possibility that exists, now more than ever thanks to infinite history.

2B only accounts for a few thousand when there has been no limits to the number of timelimes. Its hight time DBX and DBH get their 2A state.
 
Should we close this thread? It seems to go around in circles, and 2-A appears to have been thoroughly rejected.
 
Antvasima said:
Should we close this thread? It seems to go around in circles, and 2-A appears to have been thoroughly rejected.
Click to expand...

You should do a poll considering we are still having an argument and quite a few people are for 2A while a few reject 2A.


Also I want to see an argument against how Beerus can produce a timeline from a possibility of not doing anything.
 
The staff members and Sera seem to have rejected this until we get better evidence. We do not scale statistics by polling results.
 
Transfinite number

Absolute infinite

Actual infinity

Give a read to the first paragraph of each of these.

These are all different concepts involving the nature of infinity. Which again is infinite and some infinity are greater than others.

Which again is definitely not finite. And Thus is absolutely infinitely countless


Thus any of these concepts can be applied to Fuu statement and if any of these is applied, to Fuu's statement than it very much bumps DBX to 2A tier.
 
Are you sure you read them?

"Transfinite numbers are numbers that are "infinite" in the sense that they are larger than all finite numbers, yet not necessarily absolutely infinite."

"The Absolute Infinite (symbol: ╬®) is an extension of the idea of infinity proposed by mathematician Georg Cantor. It can be thought as a number which is bigger than any conceivable or inconceivable quantity, either finite or transfinite."

"In the philosophy of mathematics, the abstraction of actual infinity involves the acceptance (if the axiom of infinity is included) of infinite entities, such as the set of all natural numbers or an infinite sequence of rational numbers, as given, actual, completed objects. This is contrasted with potential infinity, in which a non-terminating process (such as "add 1 to the previous number") produces a sequence with no last element, and each individual result is finite and is achieved in a finite number of steps."

Of these, only actual infinity and absolute infinite are 2-A. Transfinite and Potential Infinity aren't.

Guess which one applies to that statement.
 
@RK

You can say that "transfinite" case can be applied to this situaton, but that goes for almost all of fiction. I doubt many fictional worlds out there ever state that they have "absolute/actual infinite" number of universes. They simply say "infinite" which can be interpreted in any of the three ways.
 
The most reasonable assumption for a statement of "infinite" universes is actual infinity, which is 2-A. Potential Infinity isn't really infinite, so assuming that or transfinite from an "infinite universes" statement wouldn't make sense.

Back to DB, transfinite, which is still really high into 2-B, seems to be the case here.
 
AKM sama said:
@RK

You can say that "transfinite" case can be applied to this situaton, but that goes for almost all of fiction. I doubt many fictional worlds out there ever state that they have "absolute/actual infinite" number of universes. They simply say "infinite" which can be interpreted in any of the three ways.
Click to expand...
Which is why unless there's a concrete statement stating that infinite universes exist, 2-A is not happening.
 
It's not infinite Universes, its infinite timelines containing multiple Universes. The with all possible timelines existing according to Whis's explanation of how Black's world was formed.


Definition of History:

Code: 
The observation of past events. Or the whole series of past events connected with a particular person or thing.


Infinite History= Infinite series of events with varying results in the past= Infinite Timelines

Thus Timelines are confirmed Infinite from the name of the Dlc itself and then reinforced with Fuu's statement about history not being finite and born from countless events, each even also creating multiple alternate event timeline, since each timeline can have Variable Number of Universes,


Destroying the Xenoverse world should classify as 2A, considering the setting of the game with customizable player avatar. Who can even mod the Game themselves.


The Xeno characters being 2A is a logical outlook.


Considering how SMT has a similar setting with the player characters reaching 2A+


At the end of the day the games are not canon to the anime, yet. So such upgrades should still have minimal effect.
 
The only mention of infinite comes from the name of the DLC. But when you put Fu, Cell and Trunks's statements together it turns out that there's an universe for every possibility, which are stated to be countless and endless, and shown by the way they're created.

This should put them ridicolously high into 2-B, but not 2-A.

SMT's case is different, as it has an infinite multiverse + Death and rebirth shenanigans
 
Tbh you'd need a direct statement of the verse having Infinite Worlds/Universes/Timelines/Dimensions. Untill then they'd still be at 2-B.

Though it could change soon I think since it's still ongoing
 
One good way to verify if something is directly stated to infinite in the context for a Japanese is if the Kanji or the word


þäíÚÖÉ

µ×£ÒüªÒüùÒüîþäíÒüä


µ×£ÒüªÒüùþäíÒüä


Or any other Japanese terminology for infinite is used or not.


Causs countless/boundless and infinite are practically the same to the Japanese people.

Can someone post the japanese version of this dialogue so that we can put this argument to rest.


This way we will truely know if it is infinite or just some other plurality adjective.

Please!
 
The Causality said:
The best i founded about the infinite timeline stuff is an analysis which said that History can end up taking an infinite number of path

the problem is, these possibility doesn't exist but "can be existed"
Click to expand...
Ohh! Wow great find. Also if there are infinite number of paths, doesn't that say the path itself already exists.


There are no quotes there that say the possibility/paths can be existed but imply that they already exist but aren't discovered.


Like things beyond the observable Universe, they already exist but are not found out. Or how when you flip a coin there already exists two possible timelines one head and one tails. Just because you discovered one outcome doesn't mean the other one doesn't exist.
 
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