DBS/Z/GT macrocosm structure

[RapidMotorcycle19]

He is the one with the most charisma. Ive seen this in countless threads, the "last comment wins" mentality is indeed real. If Ryu isnt constantly discussing with Matt, people will think he is the one who can keep up, while the statment about different times has nothing to be debunked about.

 

[Akreious]

You have to make a lot of baseless assumptions to support your conclusion, Akreious.

Where's my assumption? If it's accepted that a DB Macroverse is 2 space-times, Whis' rewind potency gets scaled up as it affected both. Likewise, from what you guys say, it could also be evidence against as Whis' potency staying the same would imply one timeline. This is where we can't see eye-to-eye at, what I was talking about above.

Evidence For: Time in the Afterlife is stated by Goku to at least be preceived differently; even stating that SSJ3 can't be used in a place with time (or at least similar time to what the Mortal Realm has). Furthermore, every reference to the dragon ball macroverse's cosmology calls the Mortal Realm a "Mortal Universe", with the Afterlife being comparable in size to it. That AT MINIMUM implies separate Spaces. This is also along with the fact that if we take the Afterlife flowing linearly along with the regular Mortal Realm, then we'd also have to accept the Future Trunks Timeline to be one with the main DB Timeline as it too has timed linearly with the DB Timeline which makes no sense. And even if time flows linearly between the Two, Goku directly states that time operates differently on at least some level since SSj3 is again, not suited for use in the Mortal Realm and states that the reasoning is correlated with TIME. Not any special mechanics of the different realms.

Evidence Against: Whis being capable of rewinding both the afterlife as well as the Mortal Realm would imply that it's all one time with different spaces. Furthermore, Goku knew the passage of time in terms of the Mortal Realm even though he was dead; able to directly recall a 7-year passage.


That's what I see from the arguments. Also, from looking back at the messages, we are weirdly hostile to eachother. A lot of staff called this thread "Fallicious" and "Nothing but wishful thinking", completely disregarding what everyone else thinks while the people here are getting increasingly passive-aggressive in response. I don't suggest we close this thread yet (Even though we might as this is probably gonna end in a stalemate) but we should at least tone down with the hostility in the thread as people is getting progressively agitated here.

 

[Akreious]

Prove it
No evidence

most likely not because where's the proof

99.9% sure this isn't in DB

Timelines work differently for gods, if Zamasu was human, no timelines would be created

... What? Trunks created an Alternate Timeline where Goku didn't die. and he's a mere "Ningen". So this example is also untrue. Hell, even Whis says what Future Trunks did was illegal in terms of the Gods' rules as it'd create changes in time.

 

[Dark649]

There is only one space-time for universe, it's just that the afterlife is an area where time feels different but Goku was able to tell how much time it passed on earth.

 

[Duhhhhhh1]

I agree with the low 2-C upgrade. They're scans posted blatantly showing this should be the case and no real debunks besides horrible attempts like

"7 years passed in both afterlife and Mortal Universe so they share the same space time"

Like others have stated by that logic Future Trunks timeline should share the same space time as Universe.

 

[Dark649]

The Manga should not be used for the Anime since it has differencies that makes his take for the timelines only for that continuity.

 

[TheRustyOne]

The DBS Manga can't work with the anime so it's pointless to bring up.

 

[Duhhhhhh1]

Will edit deleting it but my point still stands.

 

[Golden_Void]

... What? Trunks created an Alternate Timeline where Goku didn't die. and he's a mere "Ningen". So this example is also untrue. Hell, even Whis says what Future Trunks did was illegal in terms of the Gods' rules as it'd create changes in time.

Using a time machine. This isn't the same as suggesting every single action you take branches off into infinite and instantly conceived realities. Trunks only created a single timeline.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Goku isn't Low 2-C in BoG, there is no proof that they were destroying space and time.

Also watch this video with Geekdom.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r6w3Q3JIAyo

 

[Antvasima]

Can some staff member summarise what this disagreement is about?

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Ignore me, I'm not picking sides, I'm just gonna....

• Low Multiverse level: Characters who can destroy and/or create up to 1000 universal space-time continuums. The power difference between Low 2-C and 2-C characters is not possible to exactly quantify, given that the latter category has to breach the distance between universes along a 5-dimensional axis.

Does destroying different spacetimes of the same macroverse make it destroying multiple universes on a 5D axis? I'm starting the see what Matt was saying earlier about using examples such as Marvel and DC's complex universes.

 

[Aeyu]

I don't know what this disagreement is about, but I am absolutely, unequivocably, permanently diametrically opposed to raising DB characters to 2-C without proper feats, which none of the above "evidence" demonstrates to any degree. I already largely disagree with the notion that each universe is a separate space-time continuum, and always have, as the universes are physically traversable, which would describe an inflationary region model (Possibly alternate physical bubbles, but since they don't show a difference with how their space and time operates, I don't see how they function as separate space times) rather than that of a many-worlds theory multiverse (The only exception is the alternate timelines junk), and if it were up to me, High 3-A is the highest anyone with the exception of maybe Zen'o and a complete Infinite Zamasu would get (Or maybe Jiren and Goku could be Low 2-C, but no one else would reach that level). Time does not operate differently in any of the universes (As separate space-times would, plus, each of the Kais can observe each other in real time), and furthermore, just because one's perception of time in a realm which is merely an extension of the normal universe is different, does not mean that there is a separation within space and time. These common misunderstandings of cosmological physics really are beginning to grate on me.

 

[Antvasima]

@Aeyu

Well, I hope that you will continue to try to be patient and help out.

 

[Aeyu]

@Ant

I'm sorry if that sounded harsh, that's not directed at anyone in general. I just think that where the profiles are at right now is more than enough, and it exasperates me that people still aren't happy with the intensive revisions that have been done.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Why is Zeno 2-C?

 

[Aeyu]

@Poinciana

Because the universes in DB (not timelines, mind you) are treated as separate space-time continuums. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it's what's been decided on.

 

[AstralKing7]

i agree with Matt. It makes sense that they share the same time if it didnt we wouldnt be able to take everystatment as true. Goku says its been 7 years but he also says there isnt time in the afterlife makes no sense when we see Whis rewind time and brng Vegeta back to life while he was in the afterlife, also im pretty sure there was a statment about how long in would take Goku to cross snakeway

 

[The_Everlasting]

You know I don't know if anyone brought this up but I realized something important.

Goku and Beerus never actually affect the afterlife in their fight.

 

[AstralKing7]

interesting interesting do explain

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Once again, no one is getting any upgrade. The idea that there is a different time in the afterlife is demonstrably false, as the timeline is the whole multiverse.

So yes, rewinding the timeline rewinds the multiverse. That's basically logic, the only argument against it is incredulity.

The universe is a universe. It matters not if it's split into two, four, a thousand, or infinite. You only get Low 2-C at Max. But you'll won't even get that, as Goku and Beerus would only have reduced the universe to a vacuum of nothingness.

Most of the staff here has vehemently disagreed, and plenty others whom I talked to are also against it.

We are already ridiculously generous towards DB, this is asking for a complete disregard for logic, what's shown on screen, and basic cosmological understanding.

 

[DMB_1]

You know I don't know if anyone brought this up but I realized something important.
Goku and Beerus never actually affect the afterlife in their fight.

Thought they affected the Kaioshin Realm.

 

[Aeyu]

I agree with Matt and Ever. This whole argument been rejected countless times over (there's a rule for it even), it's based on a false premise, and operates on a number of double standards. And to address the whole thing with "oh the staff has a monopoly" or "it's just cause you have colored names", I'd like to address that these tiers have been hotly debated for YEARS now and not even far more ambiguous stuff has been accepted, so accepting this would be honestly setting the bar back a little. It has far more to do with quality control than bureaucracy.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

I agree with Matt.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Don't we have a rule to not make any CR About dragon ball? Why not just close this? Since it's against the rules.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We should close this because this has been brought up a dozen times and rejected every single time.

 

[Kepekley23]

I'm up.

End this thread. It's just circular now.

 

[AstralKing7]

i agree