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DBS/Z/GT macrocosm structure

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I still do not understand how two different spaces that share the same flow of time are only low 2-C.
 
The infinite speed thing isn't the main point. The main point is Goku saying that time doesn't exist in the afterlife. Keps interpretation is just one way to view that, but the other much simpler way is taling it at face value. Time doesn't exist in the Afterlife. Post proof that it means what Kep is saying.
 
I never said I believe that Goku has infinite speed. Please calm down and stop being hostile. Everyone.

And again, Goku's word for word phrasing implies time doesn't "exist" in the Afterlife-- at least not the way it does in the Living World. Similar to the Hyperbolic Time Chamber, the Afterlife MAY have some weird time set up that makes it still apart of the same timespace, like the Hyperbolic Time Chamber seems to be.

It could be stamina related, and Goku is saying that, when he is dead, and in the afterlife, he hasn't the stamina problem because he doesn't have a real body. The SS3 Transformation shortened his time on Earth. It drained the energy housed in his half living body that made it so that he can be in the living world for 24 hours?

That's what it might mean if Kep us right. I don't know.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Because they share the same flow of time, as you said.
Click to expand...
Dbs' entire macrocosm shares the same flow of time, if in Trunk' timeline pass one year, in the main timeline one year would pass too.
 
Just dropping my $0.02 from what I saw earlier

All universes flow within a single timeline, but each universe has its own space-time.

We know Whis rewinded time multiple times in the mortal realm, which has multiple implications, the most nonsensical of which being a single angel from any universe can rewind the events of their entire timeline, GP and Zeno included.
 
Time obviously exists in the Afterlife.

Goku: "Yeah…Well, even if that wasn't him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called 'Cell'…[Dabra]'s probably about as strong as him…"

Goku, who has spent the last seven years in the Afterlife, can tell perfectly that seven years have passed, and that it has been the same way in the Living World. Time exists.

It is impossible for it to be taken at 100% face value.
 
I don't think the "context" you're assuming is factual though. All that is being discussed is SS3's stamina drain. His phrasing, even in the context of talking about how shitty SS3 is, is rather peculiar. It says things like "in a world where time flows". Instead of saying that he has limited stamina in the body he is given, like I just said.

Also, you guys type fast as hell. I'm on mobile, so.
 
I mean, he could feel it out. Also, Goku does know how old Gohan is, doesn't he? In the context of that quote, when taking to Shin about cell and Dabra, he was in the World of the Living. He was escorted by Uranai Baba, who could have told him how long it was since he died.

Not saying that is a fact though. Just pointing out that your quote doesn't 100% prove anything for sure, though it seem like that a first glance.
 
Trunks' timeline and the main timeline shares the same flow of time, yet they are 2-C. I don't understand how the afterlife and the mortal universe sharing the same flow of time means that they have same space-time, a mortal cannot physically reach the afterlife, then how they share the same space-time if someone can't simply fly to the afterlife? And don't mention Whis please, he can move to other timelines.
 
Kepekley23 said:
Time obviously exists in the Afterlife.
Goku: "Yeah…Well, even if that wasn't him at full force…I think that before he would have been a frightening opponent, but…7 years ago there was a guy called 'Cell'…[Dabra]'s probably about as strong as him…"

Goku, who has spent the last seven years in the Afterlife, can tell perfectly that seven years have passed, and that it has been the same way in the Living World. Time exists.

It is impossible for it to be taken at 100% face value.
Click to expand...
He's also had contact with King Kai across those years, who could easily inform him of the time between the afterlife as well as real world. This argument could go both ways.

Plus, Goku contradicted himself. The passage of time is felt differently in the afterlife in comparison to the real world; which is why he gets a crapton of training done in the afterlife in comparison to the Mortal Universe.

Also, The Afterlife and Mortal Universe flowing together as an argument they share a space-time is nonsensical as that'd imply Future Trunks' timeline would ALSO flow exactly the same as the main DB Universe... which makes no sense since Future Trunks' timeline is explicitly said to be another timeline. Infinite speed is not the focus here.

"The entire context supports our interpretation. Goku is talking about why using SSJ3 in the Living World tires him out so much. It makes perfect sense for him to follow up with a statement regarding him not feeling the physical effects of the passage of time."

.... What? The Afterlife having another flow of time entirely ALSO works with what we're suggesting; the context works in our case as well including yours. Why're you assuming all the context ONLY fits your viewpoints when it just as well fits with what we're arguing for as well?
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I'm 100% sure that whis rewinded the whole timeline.
Click to expand...
I'm pretty sure he did; as his time rewind was able to affect the Kaio Realm as well as the Mortal Realm.

Not sure how this is a knock against the Separate Space-Times argument though; if this passes then all our low 2-C characters becomes 2-C and Whis' time rewind potency just goes up.

Plus Whis' staff has shown to be able to traverse across timelines before; why won't his Time Rewind affect more than one timeline either?
 
No Matt. Your using double standards and dancing around the points. I use the proper in verse terms because I understand what they mean and it is more accurate.

1. You say the timeline itself is 2-C for having separate spaces but the same time.

2. You say the macrocosm is Low 2-C even though it has two separate spaces and according to you the same time.

That is a double standard.

Stop using other verses for false equivalencies. hell the last time I brought up other verses all you could say was don't use them as examples. A double standard yet again.

Either the macrocosms which have separate spaces as confirmed in multiple sources are 2-C, or the entire timeline is only Low 2-C if you really want to got that route, or three you can just use double standards again and go by your opinion alone and sweep this under the rug.

Also it is separate flow of time according to Goku, and this is demonstrated by him and others not ageing and being able to use SSJ3, whereas in our world he cannot due to the flow of time being different as stated directly by him.

Anyway I'm done with this for now. I've given ample proof as far as im concerned. I recommend the macrocosm be considered a 2-C structure whether you consider to share time or not since it is undeniable ti is separate spaces, which by current db standards qualifies. Ive got other things to do now so I won't be on till at least late tomorrow.
 
A reminder that if the afterlife is accepted at 2C, the size of it is implied to be tremendous. Heaven floats directly above Enmas palace, yet is so far away no one notices it via the naked eye. Also, Toriyama himself designed the Afterlife, he mentions how he created Heaven and Heavens airport.
 
I think we're at an impasse. A lot of staff disagrees but a LOT of regular users agree. One of which is a Dragon Ball Knowledgable. Lemme make a small list

(This is about tiers btw, we're not talking about infinite speed. Just a reminder)

Disagree: Kepekley23, Unite My Rice (Not sure? Didn't really say disagree or agree), Matthew Schroeder, Promestei (?), ProfessorKukui4Life, Dark649, DarkDragonMedeus, Aeyu (Absolutely diametrically opposed to in every conceivable way) (8)

Agree: MeerkatOverlord, TheMerchant66, SSJRyu1, Akreious, RapidMotorcycle19, Therefir, Amexim, Knightofannihilation666, Comrade Blyat, Zenkaibattery1, TurboTriangle601 (11)

So like, this is basically Staff Vs Regular Users. How do we scale what's in favour with who? I mean, most of the people here agree with Ryu's reasoning but staff heavily contest it and we seem to be in a stalemate as we have completely different viewpoints.
 
Akreious said:
I'm pretty sure he did; as his time rewind was able to affect the Kaio Realm as well as the Mortal Realm.

Not sure how this is a knock against the Separate Space-Times argument though; if this passes then all our low 2-C characters becomes 2-C and Whis' time rewind potency just goes up.

Plus Whis' staff has shown to be able to traverse across timelines before; why won't his Time Rewind affect more than one timeline either?
Click to expand...
This is just more evidence of Whis rewinding a single universe, not all 12 universes. At most we know it also affects the afterlife, as Vegeta died before Whis turned back time, meaning Whis turned Vegeta way from the pearly gates.

Whis stated to Trunks it may be possible to go back to a time in his world before it was erased, but we know it wouldn't be with a temporal do-over as Future U7 being erased happened well over 3 minutes ago.
 
My opinion on this is that all timelines shares the same flow of time, but that's doesn't mean they share the same space-time, the afterlife and the mortal universe shares the same flow of time BUT a mortals cannot physicaly fly to the afterlife, meaning that they don't share the same space-time. Only the angels can, Whis can travel to other timelines already.

This would make a dbs universe 2-C, but since Goku and Beerus never shake the afterlife (Not that I remember), nothing would change, but this would make Beerus and Champa 2-C, because they can destroy both universes.
 
Unite My Rice said:
Akreious said:
I'm pretty sure he did; as his time rewind was able to affect the Kaio Realm as well as the Mortal Realm.

Not sure how this is a knock against the Separate Space-Times argument though; if this passes then all our low 2-C characters becomes 2-C and Whis' time rewind potency just goes up.

Plus Whis' staff has shown to be able to traverse across timelines before; why won't his Time Rewind affect more than one timeline either?
Click to expand...
This is just more evidence of Whis rewinding a single universe, not all 12 universes. At most we know it also affects the afterlife, as Vegeta died before Whis turned back time, meaning Whis turned Vegeta way from the pearly gates.
Click to expand...
... What? Why would Whis need to rewind all 12 Universes? I already said I agreed with the fact that Whis can affect the afterlife with his Time Rewind; but it just means his Time Rewind has a higher potency than before. And even then, the Dragon Ball Macroverses as awhole are still separated in addition to the barrier between Afterlife and mortal universe so Whis being able to affect the last two doesn't mean he's able to affect beyond the boundaries of the macroverse.

Also, no. That's not evidence against even in that case. If we accept the afterlife and mortal realm to have separate space-times, they're still linked to eachother with the relationship being souls. If Vegeta's soul in the Mortal Realm never went to the Afterlife, then the Afterlife would've never gotten Vegeta's soul. If this weren't the case, the universe would be completely filled with paradoxes each time Whis rewinds which doesn't happen. (There's also the reasoning that it's literally law to prevent time shenanigans so that could also be a possibility).

Edit: "This would make a dbs universe 2-C, but since Goku and Beerus never shake the afterlife, nothing would change, but this would make Beerus and Champa 2-C, because they can destroy both universes."

Actually, Goku vs Beerus threatened the Kaioshin realm (Place where the Supreme Kai was), which is located even FURTHER WAY from the Mortal realm than the Afterlife is (At least according to Toriyama's chart). So them being able to threaten the Supreme Kai's realm but not being able to threaten the Afterlife would not be logical at all.
 
Therefir said:
This would make a dbs universe 2-C, but since Goku and Beerus never shake the afterlife (Not that I remember), nothing would change, but this would make Beerus and Champa 2-C, because they can destroy both universes.
Click to expand...
Considering them doing that is a shared feat and increibly slow, as mentioned dozens of times already, I have to say no.

And m agreeing with Matt, Kep, and the rest of staff on this.
 
Therefir said:
My opinion on this is that all timelines shares the same flow of time, but that's doesn't mean they share the same space-time, the afterlife and the mortal universe shares the same flow of time BUT a mortals cannot physicaly fly to the afterlife, meaning that they don't share the same space-time. Only the angels can, Whis can travel to other timelines already.

This would make a dbs universe 2-C, but since Goku and Beerus never shake the afterlife (Not that I remember), nothing would change, but this would make Beerus and Champa 2-C, because they can destroy both universes.
Click to expand...

They did shake the afterlife skip to 00:50 we see the shockwaves reach the aftterllife specifically king kais planet


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sujqgUHKrQw
 
ProfessorKukui4Life said:
Considering them doing that is a shared feat and increibly slow, as mentioned dozens of times already, I have to say no.
Click to expand...
Matt already accepted that feat in another thread, but said that it's only unquantifiable above Low 2-C, because the feat is shared.
 
??

You agreed with Matt that Whis rewinded the entire timeline (All 12 universes).

Also Whis rewinding time thus bringing Vegeta back from the afterlife does seem to imply there's one giant space-time, or at least they both run concurrently.
 
Also Whis rewinding time thus bringing Vegeta back from the afterlife does seem to imply there's one giant space-time, or at least they both run concurrently.

Or his time hax is very strong. I would said again, a mortal can't physically travel to the afterlife, this proof that the afterlife and the mortal universe don't share the same space-time
 
I agree with what Unite said about Whis, so the Top Tiers should remain Low 2-C [which is the highest i assume for them by Shin statement] for now.
 
Unite My Rice said:
??
You agreed with Matt that Whis rewinded the entire timeline (All 12 universes).

Also Whis rewinding time thus bringing Vegeta back from the afterlife does seem to imply there's one giant space-time, or at least they both run concurrently.
Click to expand...
Or maybe Whis' time rewind potency is higher? And even then, who says Timelines can't affect eachother? has the concept of conjunctions (Where Timelines cross with eachother) not exist? Or hell, what about Multiverse Theory? It's at least an idea Dragon Ball somewhat abides by, as the death of Zamasu would cause another timeline to be created.
 
You have to make a lot of baseless assumptions to support your conclusion, Akreious.
 
Prove it

No evidence

most likely not because where's the proof

99.9% sure this isn't in DB

Timelines work differently for gods, if Zamasu was human, no timelines would be created
 
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